Powerboost probably slower than Ecoboost

[HammaMan]

Can this be explained in a additional way. I appreciate your explanation but I can't quite get my head wrapped around this. For example you circle both dc/dc high voltage and low voltage and placed an = sign. I'm not sure what your trying to explain. I'm sure it's my mind that's not getting it.
Also I'm still not getting a budge of change on the oar reading. I filled a 1/4 tank of 87 octain thinking I would get some reading.
BTW thank you snake for your dashboard. I have to buy a cheep 12 inch tablet. This dashboard is hard to read on a cell phone.

I'm trying to get a handle on the correlation of breaking, idle, down hill charging and raw power during a launch. It's pretty hard to monitor the numbers when stomping on the gas. One min my soc is 63% another min It's 46% I don't understand what conditions are required to get the hvb to max soc. I now see that the truck uses hvb during all normal acceleration until it depleats down to around 48%
So back to back speed/acceleration runs won't be the same until the hvb is recharged. What conditions are required to charge them fastest?
At a stop when the ice decides to run to charge the best amperage input is no more than 8 amps but coasting downhill I've seen as high as 23 amps. Greater with breaks applied.

One last question. When the cluster says 98% recovered after full stop or what ever number is that compared to the amount used to get the truck moving minus the additional fuel used?
It's just the electric energy used in combination?

You can "fast charge" the HVB -- neutral, foot on gas to rev up ICE and watch your amps go WEEEE. If your HVB is 46 degrees or colder, it limits to 55% SOC or so. Warmer and it can go to 67%. If you're regen braking it will go up to ~72% (my post seeing what e-only could yield. Hard to do as the ICE likes to start https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/manually-rolling-through-gears-in-e-only.16751/ ) Your only usable state of charge is 42% - 72% AT MOST -- the rest of the batt is walled off and ya can't touch it. Below 35% SOC the truck might not work, at all.

The DC/DC is making ~15v at 50 amps to power whatever the truck is using. It's doing that by eating the ~286v at 3.4 amps with some losses. In the same way a 20a 120v circuit has as much power as a 10a 240v circuit. Same difference. It's converting HVDC into 15v. That's the primary "alternator" if you will. It uses the starter generator at times, but rarely (to create 12v power). That's what starts the truck 99% of the time -- it'll really rock the truck when it fires off as it just spins it over real fast.

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[itsdchz]

You know that you are more than welcome to my gauges. (dashboard)

I can create an OBDLink export and you can import. (attached below)
Sometimes the scaling will be a little off between two different devices, but easy enough to drag or re-size.

Note that I have to rename the file extension to pdf for the forum to allow the upload. So you would download it and then rename the extension to stg (native format for OBDLink app)

Also note that when you import, you can choose to include the "user defined pid", since my OAR pid is not one that is included with the app.

Thanks for the dashboards!!

 

[Snakebitten]

HammaMan is a wealth of information for me and on multiple occasions I have to go back and re-read stuff (resources) I have to get it into my thick skull.

So although I might not use the correct terminology, and also not account for EVERYTHING that is actually going on in the background, here is how I see things when glancing at my dashboard:

The top half is more traditionally ICE

The only thing I'll say about the top half is that if your OAR is 0.0, something in the user defined pid isn't configured properly. Perhaps it doesn't import properly. I'll make a separate post so that you can verify your OAR pid properties VS mine.

First, the bottom half of the dash is electric-centric.
The left side is Low Voltage (~12V)
The right side is High Voltage (~300V)

Each side has the same pids, but for their voltage.

So SOC is obviously the State of Charge for the corresponding battery.

So the left SOC is the 12V battery
The right SOC is the Hybrid battery

The left Battery Voltage is the measured voltage of the 12V system
The right Battery Voltage is the measured voltage of the Hybrid battery

Note: The low voltage reading is basically what voltage that the alternator is currently supplying on a traditional ICE vehicle. Well it's the same for the Powerboost except the alternator isn't a traditional belt driven alternator, nor does the ICE/crankshaft even need to be turning. Instead there is a solid state water cooled DC/DC converter that is converting that 300V DC into 12V DC current.

It looks like this: (mounted on the front crossmember, passenger side)

So, the other electric-centric gauges include the current (amps) In(HV) / out(LV) of the DC/DC converter/(alternator)

In the green circles:
On the right is the High Voltage current being "consumed INTO the DC/DC converter. 1.6 amps of 282Volts.

On the left side is the output of that 1.6 amps of 282V. And it converts to 37amps of 12.8Volts.

HammaMan could probably tell you what the efficiency of that conversion is, but suffice it to say it's decent quality equipment.

What probably can be confusing with my gauge layout is the one other set of values that are just below the two green circles above.
Those both are also current measured in Amps. But instead of relating to the DC/DC converter, they are the current flowing either into or out of the corresponding battery. And they belong to the larger-outer gauge, as indicated below:

I just realized that the screenshot that was used for all the discussion above was a very rare screenshot because both battery current values were 0.

That's NOT common. So you'll see that I used a different screenshot just above. The High Voltage Hybrid Battery Current is listed as -58Amps

Negative because it is current flowing INTO the battery. And think about how much current that actually is! 58 Amps at 294Volts ?

Do you know the ONLY thing that can be going on at that moment?
That's regenerative braking. And I am glancing at the dashboard looking specifically AT that PID to know exactly how to slow the truck down appropriately to get ~60Amps.

It's an awesome PID for the driver to coax additional "This Trip" fuel economy. Amazing how your foot pressure will be too little or too much to get the most out of regenerative braking.

A positive +Amps on that same PID is the equivalent of electric torque. It's the current being sent to the Electric drive motor.

When you are in EV mode, cruising, THAT pid tells you how many Amps it takes to sustain the cruising speed that you are at.
And you can easily watch the SOC of the HV battery decreasing at a specific rate and easily predict when ICE is going to kick in.

Eventually you become intimate with the gauges, and it's just a much more granular version of the EV Coach. You really won't be staring at the cluster and calculating because at-a-glance it just becomes second nature.

 

[HammaMan]

A positive +Amps on that same PID is the equivalent of electric torque. It's the current being sent to the Electric drive motor.

Well that reading is the DC/DC amperage, PLUS the HVAC compressor if running, + (value of e-motor's inverter usage). So it's sorta the e-motor, but if the HVAC is on high, that thing can be eating up to 14a with the DC/DC running. It'd be nice if we could see the DC current value for the 3 phase inverter.

So compressor and DC/DC could be using 10 amps, while the BECM shows -40 amps, the 3 phase inverter is actually putting -50a into the batt's bus, those other systems are eating 10 of it before it hits the BECM.

If you have the split phase inverter running, it too is eating amperage before it hits the BECM -- The BECM is the same thing as the MME's HVBJB (high voltage battery junction box). Its role is to monitor current flow to the battery as well as turn on the high voltage contactors. There's 2 sets, the high current side where the motor and split phase inverter reside, and the low side where the DC/DC and AC compressor feast. It contains pre-charge resistors so that the HV capacitors don't spike huge inrush current on closing. It's inside the HVB and is shared with the escape and explorer hybrids (not PHEVs)

Also inside the battery is the SOBDM, aka the HVB BMS. It's responsible for monitoring each group of cells and I believe it can balance them as well via resistors.

 

[Spiffy]

Both of you guys are awesome. I've learned enough so far to gain real respect for at least a few ford engineers. There is so much cool technology in these vehicles.
Is there a way to monitor individual cell banks?
I know there is a bms. Hammaman you mentioned that there is 2 battery's. Are you referring to 2 different battery banks? I haven't researched the physical make up of the battery yet. There is this guy on YouTube that in a wheel chair that has a school that teaches about ev systems. He takes the intire system apart down to bearings. So far I have learned how Tesla, Toyota and some others. I forget his name.
I'm into electric bikes and high power rc cars. I'm 62 and still like toys. Lol. I'm pretty versed in maintaining these battery's. My bike battery is over a grand. I push it by monitoring using a bms I built. I monitor as many stacks as I can. I find and replace individual cells as they die. I don't know how many cells ford uses in the trucks.
I keep pondering if I can add an additional hvb. I can but I'm not sure how the current bms would report to the battery module.
What is the capacity of your mme vs ford's? I bet your mme is a rocket.
0 to 60?

 

[HammaMan]

Both of you guys are awesome. I've learned enough so far to gain real respect for at least a few ford engineers. There is so much cool technology in these vehicles.
Is there a way to monitor individual cell banks?
I know there is a bms. Hammaman you mentioned that there is 2 battery's. Are you referring to 2 different battery banks? I haven't researched the physical make up of the battery yet. There is this guy on YouTube that in a wheel chair that has a school that teaches about ev systems. He takes the intire system apart down to bearings. So far I have learned how Tesla, Toyota and some others. I forget his name.
I'm into electric bikes and high power rc cars. I'm 62 and still like toys. Lol. I'm pretty versed in maintaining these battery's. My bike battery is over a grand. I push it by monitoring using a bms I built. I monitor as many stacks as I can. I find and replace individual cells as they die. I don't know how many cells ford uses in the trucks.
I keep pondering if I can add an additional hvb. I can but I'm not sure how the current bms would report to the battery module.
What is the capacity of your mme vs ford's? I bet your mme is a rocket.
0 to 60?

The PB's battery is 1.5kWh rated capacity but it looks like it's 2 batts in series in it. Not sure its exact config (saw a glimpse of it and I've read some values in forscan that show it), haven't found much info on it. It's pretty tiny though. My MME has a 97kWh battery in it. Substantially larger than the PB's. That car weighs 5200lbs with me in it though, that's heavier than most F150s sans the raptor and the powerboost.

Let me go hook up FDRS and see if I can do a batt SOH report like the MMEs, BRB

The MME has 2 of these in it, AWD with near 50/50 weight distribution.
https://accessories.ford.com/products/eluminator-mach-e-electric-motor

That guy is on the weber automotive youtube page, I love watching him do all he does in his wheelchair. Really puts a lot of today's kids to shame and doesn't even have use of his legs.

MME motor teardown. I have the GTPE, slightly more powerful than the GT version shown here w/ better seats and magnaride suspension.

 

[DT444T]

If you have a place with E85, you can mix 4 gallons with 26 gallons of 89 and it will prop up the OAR accordingly.

Sounds like a good reason to carry a 4gal can of E85 with me when I'm towing.

 

[HammaMan]

Sounds like a good reason to carry a 4gal can of E85 with me when I'm towing.

E85 can be as low as E50 -- be sure to read the pump.

 

[HammaMan]

...

Here's the only thing the PB shows...

Vs the MME

 

[DT444T]

E85 can be as low as E50 -- be sure to read the pump.

It would still be better than 87 Octane ?‍
I'm on the factory tune.

 

[Snakebitten]

It would still be better than 87 Octane ?‍
I'm on the factory tune.

You could get a little test kit to determine the actual content. I have at the station near me with the E85.

But regardless, as you stated, you are just trying to give low octane E10 fuel a Boost in anti-knock

As long as you stay around 4 gallons E85/26 gallons of E10, you will safely be below E20 overall.
The factory oem tune can manage E20 without any issues. It's a magnificent torque/engine management system. Very mature after more than a dozen years of development.

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