Powerboost defeated after changing tires

[dannko58]

Installed Nitto Recon Grapplers today on my 20" alloy wheels, 295/60/20 and a Ready Lift 2" level. Very disappointed. Why? Because now my electric won't kick in at all, mileage dropped a solid 1 mpg and there is some noise, probably because the truck is so damn quiet. It's a low level whine, not super bad, but there. Again with the electric being kicked out, why have a Powerboost, so I unfortunately am going back to lighter 33" tire, either a Michelin, or hell I may even put the crap Hankooks back. The level should at least take out that excessive rake on the Max Tow Powerboost. I am bummed, the truck looks good, I assume it's not that the new tires are appx .9" larger in diameter, but it's the 20#'s in weight per tire or the combo of both. Crazy. Hate losing money, but I am not happy, so.....

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[21PlatPB]

Leveling/Larger tires seems to affect the Powerboost more than any truck I’ve ever had. I also did the readylift 2 inch level along with fuel wheels and 295/60/20 Nitto Ridge Grapplers. Lifetime MPG on my truck is 15.2 and if I’m lucky I can get 18 MPG all highway.

That’s hand calculated and my Speedo has been corrected for the larger tires. It will still cruise at certain speeds in electric mode though although it didn’t seem to want to much before I corrected the speedometer.

 

[dannko58]

Leveling/Larger tires seems to affect the Powerboost more than any truck I’ve ever had. I also did the readylift 2 inch level along with fuel wheels and 295/60/20 Nitto Ridge Grapplers. Lifetime MPG on my truck is 15.2 and if I’m lucky I can get 18 MPG all highway.

That’s hand calculated and my Speedo has been corrected for the larger tires. It will still cruise at certain speeds in electric mode though although it didn’t seem to want to much before I corrected the speedometer.

I did GPS and the speedo was only off 1-2mph. But correcting speedo may help with the electric? I didn't expect this and if I didn't have powerboost, meaning the 5.0 or 3.5 ecoboost I wouldn't care. I have Max Tow with the 3.73 so I am scratching my head realizing 20# extra tire weight is killing this thing. I almost want to go with 305/55/20's which are 33", but wider and lighter 50#ish but still that's higher than the 41-42# factory garbage and afraid that is what is killing the Powerboost.

 

[Sarynnus]

There might be another underlying issue with your truck if electric mode isn't kicking in at all.

I have a 4 inch BDS lift on mine, with 35x12.5x18 Nitto RidgeGrapplers on mine and mine behaves almost the exact same as stock.

My commute to work is 18KM and 8KM of those were electric KM. With my lift and tires, I only dropped down to 7.5KM electric KM for my daily commute.

 

[Sarynnus]

Further to my last post, the only difference I've noticed is when I accelerate in electric mode, it runs out of juice slightly sooner than prior. But when I get up to speed, it coasts just about the same distance in electric as stock.

Why don't you try a active transmission learning reset first before you swap back to stock tires. I wonder if your Powerboost is somehow thinking it's towing somthing due to the sudden change of weight, and not kicking in electric mode in the software.

 

[dannko58]

Further to my last post, the only difference I've noticed is when I accelerate in electric mode, it runs out of juice slightly sooner than prior. But when I get up to speed, it coasts just about the same distance in electric as stock.

Why don't you try a active transmission learning reset first before you swap back to stock tires. I wonder if your Powerboost is somehow thinking it's towing somthing due to the sudden change of weight, and not kicking in electric mode in the software.

Yes I would imagine it thinks it's towing something with the tires size and weight increase. I have considered doing the Forscan thing to check, but what is the active transmission thing you speak of?

 

[WillB17]

This really should have nothing to do with what tire size is saved in the computer. This is strictly about how much load and power the vehicle needs in order to move. If the load to keep the vehicle moving is greater than what the hybrid system can supply, it's going to use the ICE instead due to power demand. Putting bigger wheels and tires on is the same as pushing the gas pedal further. You can visually monitor this with the EV Coach as it will show you how the throttle pedal/load relates.

 

[Snakebitten]

Theoretically the ONLY change that the truck experiences is an increase in "Torque Request", and it wouldn't be an increase large enough to completely nix EV mode availability.

The Ecoboost, since it's release in the 2011 F150 was an all new engine management approach by Ford. Incredibly sophisticated at the time, and even more so in this "3rd" generation. Add to that the additional "source" for meeting the "Torque Request" that the Hybrid provides, and you have an amazingly complex number of parameters at play HUNDREDS of times per second.

A larger tire will affect one of the most important data sensors (wheel speed sensor) and the additional weight will require some measure of additional Torque Request to achieve the same rate of acceleration and/or steady state momentum. But I can't imagine that it would be enough to take EV off the table completely.

 

[dannko58]

Theoretically the ONLY change that the truck experiences is an increase in "Torque Request", and it wouldn't be an increase large enough to completely nix EV mode availability.

The Ecoboost, since it's release in the 2011 F150 was an all new engine management approach by Ford. Incredibly sophisticated at the time, and even more so in this "3rd" generation. Add to that the additional "source" for meeting the "Torque Request" that the Hybrid provides, and you have an amazingly complex number of parameters at play HUNDREDS of times per second.

A larger tire will affect one of the most important data sensors (wheel speed sensor) and the additional weight will require some measure of additional Torque Request to achieve the same rate of acceleration and/or steady state momentum. But I can't imagine that it would be enough to take EV off the table completely.

take my word is almost completely nixed, unless your at the last few feet after braking to a stop. It is almost non-existent vs before the tires the electric had been up to 33% of the total mileage, mostly around 25%.

 

[Snakebitten]

take my word is almost completely nixed, unless your at the last few feet after braking to a stop. It is almost non-existent vs before the tires the electric had been up to 33% of the total mileage, mostly around 25%.

I don't think the new tires would "normally" nix it, so something isn't right, obviously.

Have you tried a Kam reset? (using something like Forscan).
Try clearing all adaptive tables for transmission and pcm.

And it might be a good idea to program in the new tire size to get speedo and mileage dead on.

 

[vinhdiesel]

i also have a 295 60 20 nitto ridge grapplers. Although i did see a drop in about 1-2 mpg, i still think its still pretty good. I also have a pedal commander that i set to eco for daily driving and it tends to stay in electric a little longer after i get it up to at least 25 mph.

 

[Trukbed]

Couple thoughts:

It's suddenly cooler. So the battery is going to require more engine now to charge up. You'll get less use of the battery than we were used to all summer. Much less.

Another, the battery only has 43 electric hp. So if the engine load is asking for any bit more than the 43hp electric motor due to heavier tires with more tire resistance, which increases engine load, it may just be more than the 43 hp electric motor can handle. So couple that with the temp changes.

Just 5 to 10 pounds per tire/wheel gain is a lot more weight towards the load than just hauling 40 extra pounds of cargo. The wheels are the first real places the engine has to defy resistance. A real full on physics thing. Off Road tires are a big consideration for more reasons than just road noise and initial tire costs, sometimes, IMO

Just a couple of my thoughts is all. Here's a link to hybrid driving tips that talk about load increases, I wrote. Maybe it can help, maybe not.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm more of a Torque centric thinker when it comes to the Ecoboost/Powerboost because the software (engine management) is literally making decisions based on requested torque. (of course that is parallel to HP)

So everytime someone mentions 47HP, my brain thinks 70 lbs torque.

As for weight at each wheel, it IS perhaps the most sensitive lb(s) you could add to the truck and affect the torque request increase. Or put another way, adding 40lbs in the bed of the truck would be almost unmeasurable. But add that 40lbs to the wheels? That is not only measurable by the pcm, but can be felt with the butt dyno too.

I swapped wheels on the toy a couple of days ago. NOT for looks, although they are nice enough. But they are incredibly light at ~17.5 lbs each. The car is happy.

 

[Trukbed]

I'm more of a Torque centric thinker when it comes to the Ecoboost/Powerboost because the software (engine management) is literally making decisions based on requested torque. (of course that is parallel to HP)

So everytime someone mentions 47HP, my brain thinks 70 lbs torque.

As for weight at each wheel, it IS perhaps the most sensitive lb(s) you could add to the truck and affect the torque request increase. Or put another way, adding 40lbs in the bed of the truck would be almost unmeasurable. But add that 40lbs to the wheels? That is not only measurable by the pcm, but can be felt with the butt dyno too.

I swapped wheels on the toy a couple of days ago. NOT for looks, although they are nice enough. But they are incredibly light at ~17.5 lbs each. The car is happy.

Right...

I swapped wheels on the 2020 mustang, measuring before and after with OBD reader numbers. A good amount of miles before and after each.

I took off the factory wheels and tires. Did a combo of lighter tire and wheels (from tire rack) hunter road force balanced.

I think the savings per wheel/tire was a good 10+ pounds.

I can't remember the load numbers, but the boost requirement that WAS typical was no longer... in order to request the same driving characteristics.

You're right about butt dyno, I felt it too. Just felt lighter, due to more free torque. I noticed highway get up and pass was easier. Less pavement contact...

More boost meant more fuel... so I naturally saw better mpgs too, like at least 2 or 3mpg better (diameters were the same as factory and on point.

So I had less resistant tires, lighter tires, a thinner and lighter wheel. Boom. And this was with winter gas!

Weight ans resistance at wheels is a HUGE factor. More than most ever think of first. And it should be where the mind goes first, beginning with psi.

Man, psi... there's another small thing that makes a huge difference in mpg, road imperfection feelings, etc.

 

[Snakebitten]

Saweeeet ride too! Really nice

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