Payload Capacity: C'mon, is it REALLY Important?

[Blown F-150]

Ignorance is bliss... Just because your tires can handle your load, doesn't mean the axle bearings can...

So I'm not to sure if you're just using axle bearing as an example or not, but let's talk about the bearings.

So tell me, what's the difference in the bearings on my truck (Max tow, 6.5ft, 5.0 GVWR 7150) with the 9.75 and a 12th Gen Max tow truck with a GVWR of 7700lbs with a 9.75? I'll give you a hint...nothing. Nothing at all, they have the same outside/inside diameter and same width bearings.

If you want to look at it from a different perspective, what's the difference in my bearings and the 14th gen HDPP truck with a GVWR or 7850? Again, nothing as they have the same axle. The differences are more in the spring rates (which I have upgrades in the front and rear of my truck to accommodate) and I'm seeing conflicting info on frame thickness, but I have zero concerns about bending a frame, like none...at all.

One last viewpoint around this for me, would be the towing capacity of my truck. It's rates]d for 11,300lbs of towing. Now to pull that within the parameters outlined by Ford, I wouldn't be able to with how my truck is today and the obvious requirement of a WDH and being within the frontal size limit of the trailer being pulled. My point is that pulling a trailer of that size puts additional strain the bearings, brakes and other components and that is fine according to Ford. The payload ratings are all based on static load numbers, your truck isn't static when you're towing so there has to be margin and design to accommodate for hitting bumps in the road, potholes, G-outs, etc.

I mention tires in my previous post for a specific reason that I should have called out I guess. They add to the weight of the truck, but are un-sprung weight. They don't impact the sprung weight in any meaningful way. One can argue and I would agree that larger/heavier tires do impact braking performance along with handling, however with the tow rating of my truck, I just can't see that being an issue and not something that I've personally noticed causing any concern at all.

Now, here are two pictures...In both my truck is over payload and over the 7150lb's of GVWR the truck is rated for. It is however under both GAWR's. In both scenarios, the truck did roughly 3000mile trips in this config and on varying roads in different conditions. It was fine. If you're talking about grossly overloading, ya that's not for me and a larger truck would be in order.

But ya, I guess ignorance is bliss eh?

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[Blown F-150]

So what happens to the "axle bearings" if a truck with a 1500# Payload Capacity yellow sticker is carrying 500 extra #'s of cargo?

Or maybe a better way to put it is what happens to the axle bearings when a 7350 GVW Powerboost is rolling down the road at 7800lbs?

Note that a non Powerboost F150 has a 7050# GVW. But a Powerboost has 7350# GVW. I don't know for sure, but I bet they both have very similar, if not, exactly the same bearings?

Or put another way, I don't think the axle bearings are specifically what determines GVW. I'm pretty comfortable with believing something OTHER than the bearings would be the weak link in an overload wear/stress use case. Especially short term.

My only objection to hauling/towing at or near or even over the Towing/Payload limits are the lousy experience of doing so. I don't like the diminished handling, not to mention the lower margin of error for unexpected traffic conditions. Takes the joy out of driving big time.

If you wanted to go a step further, you could look at the HDPP variants of older generations and them being reported to have larger 7 bolt axles. If the axles are larger and the differential case is the same, then the bearing would have to be smaller.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Like I said... ignorance is bliss. You assume because various outside dimensions of a given bearing are the same as others that there's no internal difference. Ultimately the load on the bearing is carried by the lubricant film between the shaft and the journal. If you cannot develop the requisite film the bearing will eventually eat itself. Could Ford have used the same axle on differently rated trucks, sure... But be careful there may be internals that differ. ...And yeah, the springs are part of the picture. At the end of the day the rating is there for a reason, something carrying the load can give way... Yeah, ignorance is bliss...

 

[Blown F-150]

Like I said... ignorance is bliss. You assume because various outside dimensions of a given bearing are the same as others that there's no internal difference. Ultimately the load on the bearing is carried by the lubricant film between the shaft and the journal. If you cannot develop the requisite film the bearing will eventually eat itself. Could Ford have used the same axle on differently rated trucks, sure... But be careful there may be internals that differ. ...And yeah, the springs are part of the picture. At the end of the day the rating is there for a reason, something carrying the load can give way... Yeah, ignorance is bliss...

Let me know if you can find different, but Ford part numbers and aftermarket part numbers all show one part number for the axles bearings based on year and axle type, nothing is different for any given GVWR rating.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Let me know if you can find different, but Ford part numbers and aftermarket part numbers all show one part number for the axles bearings based on year and axle type, nothing is different for any given GVWR rating.

Irrelevant... But thank you for causing me to think through the issue some more. The spring rates, shock absorber rates, and axle are a tuned system. Looking at it as just the axle load carrying capacity is short sighted. It may be true that the same part number is used across several different load capacities, but that doesn't mean you're clear to overload. Be careful, if you get in an accident and are facing a sharp lawyer that understands this he could take you to the cleaners... and if your insurance company looks into it you may find they decline coverage because you operated that truck outside of design limits... So just because you can get away with it doesn't mean it's OK...

 

[Snakebitten]

Let me know if you can find different, but Ford part numbers and aftermarket part numbers all show one part number for the axles bearings based on year and axle type, nothing is different for any given GVWR rating.

I've known you for many years at this point. Trust me, you will not ever make an inch of headway with him. (edit: while I was typing, it appears you DID successfully move the line an inch! Well done ?)

He's a good guy. I mean that sincerely. But they don't come more stubborn! ?

 

[Blown F-150]

Irrelevant... But thank you for causing me to think through the issue some more. The spring rates, shock absorber rates, and axle are a tuned system. Looking at it as just the axle load carrying capacity is short sighted. It may be true that the same part number is used across several different load capacities, but that doesn't mean you're clear to overload. Be careful, if you get in an accident and are facing a sharp lawyer that understands this he could take you to the cleaners... and if your insurance company looks into it you may find they decline coverage because you operated that truck outside of design limits... So just because you can get away with it doesn't mean it's OK...

I'm not sure how that is irrelevant given that was the basis of your argument, but whatever. They change the spring rates, however there are not a wide array of shock absorbers based.

I would love to see any examples of claims being denied due to being over by a few hundred pounds. It would be pretty hard to prove to be honest, what are they gonna do, weigh my gear and occupants road-side, lol? I've heard of ambulance chasers, but that's a bit out there.

 

[Blown F-150]

I've known you for many years at this point. Trust me, you will not ever make an inch of headway with him. (edit: while I was typing, it appears you DID successfully move the line an inch! Well done ?)

He's a good guy. I mean that sincerely. But they don't come more stubborn! ?

That's clearly the case, but I'm bored so why not.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I'm not sure how that is irrelevant given that was the basis of your argument, but whatever. They change the spring rates, however there are not a wide array of shock absorbers based.

I would love to see any examples of claims being denied due to being over by a few hundred pounds. It would be pretty hard to prove to be honest, what are they gonna do, weigh my gear and occupants road-side, lol? I've heard of ambulance chasers, but that's a bit out there.

Just because they haven't figured out how to deny doesn't mean they won't... But try again... clearly you do not understand the design of load and carrying capability...

 

[Blown F-150]

Just because they haven't figured out how to deny doesn't mean they won't... But try again... clearly you do not understand the design of load and carrying capability...

I don't understand the design of load and carrying capability? Come on, back up your assumptions if you know so much more than I do. Your insurance concerns are not backed up by any data at all. Maybe I'll start buying a lottery ticket as I have a better chance of winning the lottery, then having a claim denied.

Do you think I increased my spring rate on the front when weight was added to the vehicle just for the fun of it? Replaced my shocks just for fun? Do you think I have looked at basically every spring rate chart and critical component part number across configurations for fun? I have a pretty good knowledge on how Ford is building these trucks and with what parts to achieve the ratings. Hence why I'm building the truck the way I am and why I have no concerns about how I use it.

 

[F150 John]

Just because a truck can pull something down the road does not mean you should.

My parents used to belong to a camping club and what people generally used was rated weight x.85 to make sure that you were not all over the road and when doing steep roads you were able to stop slow down when needed or the vehicle had the ability to do sharp corners and such.

Just because you are at the max number does not mean you would have a white knuckle drive under the wrong conditions which can come up more then you think.

 

[Snakebitten]

This thread feels like an RV forum thread. ?

I have been living in an RV for 9 years.
And I have 3 other RV's that I travel with/in. They are all completely different platforms with different missions.

Still, I'm not claiming any expertise regarding the engineering or official limits that manufacturers settle on. But I am claiming that the yellow tag on the door jamb is an oversimplified value for the masses. And I'm glad it exists. Consumers need a value to consider when making decisions.

 

[513Mugsy]

I bet that little caster was just screaming going down the road! ?

 

[Davexxxx]

I bet that little caster was just screaming going down the road! ?

I'd bet it is very nearly a single use item.

 

[513Mugsy]

I'd bet it is very nearly a single use item.

Probably has a few in the trunk for each one way trip!

And the safety chains hooked up to the trailer still. Super safe!

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