Over-Thinking About GVWR?

[F150Eh]

First time truck buyer/trailer tower here, so please bear me

Looking at a 21 F150 Platinum with 3.5LV6, 3.31 axle, and Tow Package (not max tow). Looking online it suggests 5000lbs curb weight-ish. So here's my math...

Truck: 5000 lbs
Tongue: 700 lbs (7000 lb trailer when fully loaded, so max weight)
Fam of 4+dog+supplies: 1000 lbs
Total: 6700 lbs
GVWR (as per door sticker): 7050 lbs
Remainder: 350 lbs

Am I over thinking it that I'm so close to hitting the GVWR, or is 350 more than enough cushion that I'm not starting to stress the truck?

Appreciate any replies!

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[discothan]

That is about right. I'm sure the F150 can handle a bit more, but the your MPG will suffer, and potentially additional stress on the frame.

Stay safe!

 

[Vulnox]

I would find the payload sticker of another platinum with that setup, I don't think I have seen many, if any, platinums with 2050lbs of Payload.

Looking at the chart below, the MAX payload a 4x4 F-150 w/ 3.5L and 7050 GCWR can have is 2100, and keep in mind, that is the max, meaning that is an XL F-150 4x4 3.5L, not a Platinum, which will be about 500lbs less than that at best. So your Payload sticker is going to be 1200-1500 depending on equipment.

My guess is you are going to be so far above Payload for the truck you want with the numbers you provided. I am assuming a 4x4 since you didn't mention otherwise and that is common, but a 4x2 slightly alters the math.

 

[F150Eh]

@Vulnox Ugh, I didn't even think of asking my dealer so send the pic of the payload sticker, thanks for mentioning that! You were correct that its 4x4. Where did you get that payload chart from? I've only been able to find the towing charts in the Ford brochures.

Thanks!

 

[Vulnox]

@Vulnox Ugh, I didn't even think of asking my dealer so send the pic of the payload sticker, thanks for mentioning that! You were correct that its 4x4. Where did you get that payload chart from? I've only been able to find the towing charts in the Ford brochures.

Thanks!

Sorry for the delay, the chart is in the 2021 F-150 brochure, or at least the extended PDF one, it's a heck of a brochure!

https://www.ford.com/services/asset...&api_key=72662a76-5994-a965-0e0a1d8f-fcbdad95

Unless you want to check it all out, it's about the third page from the end. Has a TON of numbers and info.

 

[BLoflin]

Some thoughts, as other posters said, your calcs are not realistic for Plat payload in a 4x4. Need to find some stickers to look at.

Also, not clear you have the trailer yet, so don't assume every trailer's tongue weight is 10% of loaded trailer weight. The 10% number is used as a minimum number when configuring where you put the variable weight in your trailer. With a 7k trailer your tongue weight could just as easily be 850 to 900lbs. You have to weigh it, and adjust (i.e. if fresh water tank is in front of the trailer wheels, don't fill it before towing, etc.).

Also, you need to figure in a Weight Distribution Hitch, which is from around 60lbs (Andersen) to almost 200lbs (Pro-pride).

But finally, leaning the other way. The Ford specs are real, you don't need to de-rate them for "more safety", the lawyers already did that to the engineers calculation. For example, my reading of the law, says the seller (manufacturer and dealer) can add less than (but up to) 100lbs of installed options/accessories payload weight without changing the sticker. In other words if the sticker from Ford says 1500lbs payload, your dealer (representing Ford) could add spray-in bed liner, or tonneau cover, etc, and as long as it's not more than 100lb additional weight, they don't have to "spec" it via changing the sticker. So I read that as payload as stickered is already "de-rated", and you can put another 99lbs on it. But I don't work for Ford, and I am not speaking for them, just my interpretation reading the federal rules.

 

[F150Eh]

Sorry for the delay, the chart is in the 2021 F-150 brochure, or at least the extended PDF one, it's a heck of a brochure!

https://www.ford.com/services/asset...&api_key=72662a76-5994-a965-0e0a1d8f-fcbdad95

Unless you want to check it all out, it's about the third page from the end. Has a TON of numbers and info.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[F150Eh]

@BLoflin Thanks for your response. So from what you said and also the payload chart that @Vulnox provided, I'm starting to think a 6000lb curb/7000lb loaded camper trailer is pushing the limit on what an F150 can realistically pull.

Let's say I started all over putting in a new order. I know my trailer is 7000lbs loaded, and passengers+tongue+cargo is around 2000 (rounded up). If I'm reviewing the charts right, then the configuration that gives me the best towing and payload to accommodate the above + have wiggle room is a 3.5L EcoBoost 4x2 SuperCrew with a 157" wheel base AND it needs max tow and heavy duty payload packages: 14000 lbs towing, 2880 lbs payload.

I'm kicking myself at this because I focused on the max towing package on my Lariat order (which is delayed, which is why I was looking at the Platinum) but I should have added max payload, because max tow doesn't actually give me anything. And as good as my sales guy was, he kept focusing on the tow weight and not the payload needs.

Unless there's something I'm missing. Maybe a 7000 lb trailer is more F250 territory?

 

[UGADawg96]

I know my ..... passengers+tongue+cargo is around 2000 (rounded up)......

Knowing that alone makes it hard to get into a F150 unless you're looking at one of the HDPP models. Most F150s will have less than 2k payload unless specially configured.

 

[Blue Spruce]

Just for a point of reference. I was trying to maximize payload while still getting some of the new features like the big screen, adaptive cruise etc. for me that meant getting the XLT with the 302 Sport package. The heavier payload package with the 3.5 EB is only available on 301 package or lower and I didn’t want to sacrifice the big screen and adaptive cruise.

mine is longer (6.5’ box) 4x4 so GVWR is 7150. Payload sticker is 1836. It has the 20” wheels so maybe the 18s would save a little weight and bump that up a touch. I also have max tow with the 36 gallon tank. stepping down to one of the other towing packages might save some weight as well but I don’t know if that changes the GVWR.

getting all of 2000 pounds of payload and most of the cool new features will be tough. I think you can get close like maybe 1900 pounds if you are careful on options but not many on the lots are configured that way.

 

[Arcteryx]

Food for thought. Put your gear in the trailer and spread out the weight and leave the water tanks empty. Its not a huge savings in payload but theres no need to put it in the truck. I have a 5000lb trailer loaded with about 700 lbs tongue weight when all said and done. I haven't been to the scale yet so can't confirm 100% but with my Tacoma on the scale I was at 650. lbs. tongue weight. A WDH is a must. If you haven't considered that, add that 60 lbs for the Anderson at a minimum.

If the numbers are too close to call look at Apex nano trailers. They are light. Mine is 25 feet long and empty weight is 4200. I have the largest and heaviest model of Apex Nano. They are designed for smaller trucks and SUVs.

 

[BLoflin]

@BLoflin Thanks for your response. So from what you said and also the payload chart that @Vulnox provided, I'm starting to think a 6000lb curb/7000lb loaded camper trailer is pushing the limit on what an F150 can realistically pull.

Let's say I started all over putting in a new order. I know my trailer is 7000lbs loaded, and passengers+tongue+cargo is around 2000 (rounded up). If I'm reviewing the charts right, then the configuration that gives me the best towing and payload to accommodate the above + have wiggle room is a 3.5L EcoBoost 4x2 SuperCrew with a 157" wheel base AND it needs max tow and heavy duty payload packages: 14000 lbs towing, 2880 lbs payload.

I'm kicking myself at this because I focused on the max towing package on my Lariat order (which is delayed, which is why I was looking at the Platinum) but I should have added max payload, because max tow doesn't actually give me anything. And as good as my sales guy was, he kept focusing on the tow weight and not the payload needs.

Unless there's something I'm missing. Maybe a 7000 lb trailer is more F250 territory?

I'm by no means and expert, but...

Issue with towing a big trailer is what is the trailer (difference between towing a large/tall RV and a flatbed loaded with bricks), and how much (distance) and where (around your property, interstate, mountains, etc.). And how often (it's all statistics, baby). So if you take your trailer out say 3 times a year, tow it over pretty flat land, not interstate, and less than 100 miles to where you like to camp, is way different then setting off on a cross-continent trip with 45 days a year on the road, total, every year.

So the expert info is you need 10% tongue weight... can you get by with 9%, maybe... again depending on what/where you are towing.

Even if you purchase a "tongue heavy" RV, can you adjust that by loading the back of the trailer (without exceeding Trailer GVWR)? Can you move stuff (gear, dog food, bottled water, propane tanks, generator) from truck to over the wheels or behind the trailer wheels?

Can you get your WDH properly adjusted to push weight to front axle on truck (won't help with overall payload, but will decrease load on rear axle) and push some back to the trailer axle.

As you can tell from talking to Truck Salesmen and RV Salesmen, in general, NO ONE focuses on payload. Some people guesstimate that over 50% of RVers are towing over payload (with a truck or SUV) because they only looked at total tow weight capability. And we haven't experienced a "carmageddon apocalypse" with people crashing trailers.

So what increases your ability to tow safely, even if pushing the payload spec. Length of trailer vs tow vehicle (i.e longer wheelbase vehicle is better), good WDH, dual axle on trailer, slowing down when driving in crosswinds or when lots of 18wheeler traffic blowing past you (from either direction).

So to net, there is total weight (trailer GVWR, truck GVWR, truck+trailer GCWR) that you need to watch. Then at more detail there is axle weight (truck front and rear, and trailer). Then there is RV side square feet... the trailer is like a big sail for crosswind and passing 18 wheelers, so a small wheelbase SUV towing a big long/tall single axle trailer is going to be a problem no matter if all the weight specs are met.

If you go to the RV forums, you can see 2 types of Rvers. Ones that feel fine towing (and may not even have ever measured their payload, or any of there configuration) and they are good and enjoying RVing. There is another set that started out, had a least one "white knuckle" event (might have been a single event or might have just be too much scary driving for a day or two given the conditions). They end up coming back and buying a HD (F-250, etc.) for their configuration.

The point is, your experience is your experience, and safety is a statistics game until your in the game. And your risk tolerance versus stress. So if you;re a youngster (or at least "middle age") and enjoy rock-climbing, whitewater kayaking, parachute jumping versus a retiree at over 65 with a past "heart event" your have different risk tolerances.

Good luck.

 

[Bryan Simon]

Just for a point of reference. I was trying to maximize payload while still getting some of the new features like the big screen, adaptive cruise etc. for me that meant getting the XLT with the 302 Sport package. The heavier payload package with the 3.5 EB is only available on 301 package or lower and I didn’t want to sacrifice the big screen and adaptive cruise.

mine is longer (6.5’ box) 4x4 so GVWR is 7150. Payload sticker is 1836. It has the 20” wheels so maybe the 18s would save a little weight and bump that up a touch. I also have max tow with the 36 gallon tank. stepping down to one of the other towing packages might save some weight as well but I don’t know if that changes the GVWR.

getting all of 2000 pounds of payload and most of the cool new features will be tough. I think you can get close like maybe 1900 pounds if you are careful on options but not many on the lots are configured that way.

mine is the simpler 301a SuperCab and 8’ box. 5.0 v8
No towing package over included receiver and dealer added trailer brake.
36 gal tank, 18” wheels, 3.31 gears
No payload package.

my sticker is showing 2008 payload.

Since this was never intended to be a specific purpose vehicle over transportation it should be just fine for 99% of carrying/dragging tasks I may use it for.

but, just tossing this out for trim level differences and capability

 

[F150Eh]

OK so got some new data to factor in. Dealer sent me the payload sticker and the Platinum has 1600 allowable. So if I get picky with the numbers (we won't be fully loading the trailer so realistically 6500 lbs, so 800 tongue weight) + family and fuel (800 - 900) that puts me at or just above the max payload.

The tires have a max weight of 2679 though...not sure how that factors in.

 

[Arcteryx]

Just remember whatever the TT lists for tongue weight, add propane tank weight and battery weight. Manufacturer specs do not include that additional weight. Last thing to take into consideration if your new to TT towing. Tools, levelers, hoses, and general setup stuff all adds to tongue weight due to normally being store in the front of the TT. These are things you need to setup your camper properly at your destination.

Adds up fast doesn't it. Thats why I traded in my tacoma for an F150. Now I have a buffer zone with my TT. But I pack fairly light and never transport water in the tanks.

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