Over-Thinking About GVWR?

[F150Eh]

Just remember whatever the TT lists for tongue weight, add propane tank weight and battery weight. Manufacturer specs do not include that additional weight. Last thing to take into consideration if your new to TT towing. Tools, levelers, hoses, and general setup stuff all adds to tongue weight due to normally being store in the front of the TT. These are things you need to setup your camper properly at your destination.

Adds up fast doesn't it. Thats why I traded in my tacoma for an F150. Now I have a buffer zone with my TT. But I pack fairly light and never transport water in the tanks.

Yeah! We're mainly doing full service camping or at least elec+water, so not planning on filling up the water tanks when travelling. I think spreading out the weight and getting the right distribution is going to be "fun". lol

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[Arcteryx]

Here is my set up. The number i threw out are close but not exact. Tows great on freeway but you definetly know it's there. My payload is 1966 lbs per the door sticker.


Apex Nano 208BHS
About 5000lbs loaded( no water)
700lbs tongue weight loaded(515 manufacturer)
550 lbs passengers
60lb Anderson WDH
No cargo in truck. Its all in the camper.

I will post CAT scale next trip and break down manufacturers weights vs real world.

 

[machz]

Just remember whatever the TT lists for tongue weight, add propane tank weight and battery weight. Manufacturer specs do not include that additional weight. Last thing to take into consideration if your new to TT towing. Tools, levelers, hoses, and general setup stuff all adds to tongue weight due to normally being store in the front of the TT. These are things you need to setup your camper properly at your destination.

Adds up fast doesn't it. Thats why I traded in my tacoma for an F150. Now I have a buffer zone with my TT. But I pack fairly light and never transport water in the tanks.

I'm not sure your statement about the batteries and propane are correct. Every listing I have seen and on my keystone the propane tanks and batteries are included so it's as from the factory. When you fill the propane tank that weight is added so 2 x 20 = 40 lbs

 

[F150Eh]

I'm not sure your statement about the batteries and propane are correct. Every listing I have seen and on my keystone the propane tanks and batteries are included so it's as from the factory. When you fill the propane tank that weight is added so 2 x 20 = 40 lbs

Oooo, what model of Keystone do you have? We just got a 272BH!

 

[Arcteryx]

I'm not sure your statement about the batteries and propane are correct. Every listing I have seen and on my keystone the propane tanks and batteries are included so it's as from the factory. When you fill the propane tank that weight is added so 2 x 20 = 40 lbs

Not saying your wrong about your trailer specs. However most manufacturer specs do not include the tanks and battery. It even states that on their websites. My camper for example is an off grid model with 2 tanks and two batteries. The standard model has 1 of each but the same tongue weight on the site. Dealers usually add them and hide the charge in their price. My RV dealer even said they added the tanks and battery. Even walking through the lot there were just unloaded TT's I saw without tanks and batteries. 2 tanks full equal 70 lbs. 1 battery equals 60 lbs.


70 + 60 = 130lbs. Dont forget gear in the trailer

515lbs tongue weight plus 130lbs for add on equals 645lbs to drive off the dealer lot. Add in my tools and leveling blocks and rv essentials in front pass through I am around 700lbs.

I did a lot of research before buying. I had a tacoma when I bought the camper. And quickly realized it wasn't enough truck. Just upgraded to the F150.

 

[BLoflin]

OK so got some new data to factor in. Dealer sent me the payload sticker and the Platinum has 1600 allowable. So if I get picky with the numbers (we won't be fully loading the trailer so realistically 6500 lbs, so 800 tongue weight) + family and fuel (800 - 900) that puts me at or just above the max payload.

The tires have a max weight of 2679 though...not sure how that factors in.

Tire rating is per tire. So total tire rating per axle is x2, (i.e 5358 in your case).

The way it should work is tire rating x2 is greater than axle rating. Wheel rating x2 also should be greater than axle rating.

The sum of the 2 axle ratings should be greater than your GVWR.

Of course also the frame rating should be at or more than GVWR (but you will never find just a frame rating).

And then suspension (shocks, leaf springs, control arms, etc) components should each have margin above GVWR.

I.E. Safety margin at each step, and the resulting GVWR is going to be based on "weakest link" minus some further safety margin.

 

[BLoflin]

Just remember whatever the TT lists for tongue weight, add propane tank weight and battery weight. Manufacturer specs do not include that additional weight. Last thing to take into consideration if your new to TT towing. Tools, levelers, hoses, and general setup stuff all adds to tongue weight due to normally being store in the front of the TT. These are things you need to setup your camper properly at your destination.

Adds up fast doesn't it. Thats why I traded in my tacoma for an F150. Now I have a buffer zone with my TT. But I pack fairly light and never transport water in the tanks.

True in general for most RVs, but unusual is that Airstream lists it's tongue weight including propane and batteries, but that is not the norm.

Here is an example from AS for 23ft Flying Cloud 23CB:

Hitch Weight (with LP and Batteries)

654

 

[F150Eh]

Hey all, thanks so much for all your responses and insight - I really appreciate it! Because of what you shared we landed on an XLT which has less bells and whistles than the Platinum but with a higher payload that will give us more buffer (and be overall safer when towing our trailer). And honestly, I'm really impressed with how nice the XLT trim is - no leather or moonroof, but it checks off a LOT of the boxes that we wanted! Thanks again, appreciate y'all!

 

[Jack in Prescott]

It sounds like you’ve made your decision...but I do think you are a good candidate for a F250. I notice you’re located in one of the ‘middle ‘ prairie provinces, so you will occasionally tow in heavy winds and likely longer distances. IMO you received a lot of credible posts here. But the problem I see with these ‘towing’ discussions more generally is that they tend to be time-static and don’t offer much future proofing. It’s likely your trailer, over time, will only grow in weight as the kids bring more toys, you add a cell booster or inverter generator, and/or (as mentioned above) you add some RV gear to improve your towing/parking/camping experience. The same is likely true of the truck. You may want to add a small BBQ, bikes or other ‘lifestyle gear’ (all in the truck bed) or a few pieces of truck trim or mod. I find that’s one of the big benefits of unused payload (in both truck and trailer): weight growth that allow you to learn from RV’ing and to better enjoy RV’ing over time. That’s what led me from a fully capable SUV towing a 5700# GVWR trailer to a F150. All my scale based numbers today have margins...but I want my TV payload to offer more growth. It’s tough for me to see how your (non-scaled based) ~2000# payload will offer you much of that with a half-ton truck. But best wishes to you and the family, no matter what your choices.

Jack

 

[F150Eh]

@Jack in Prescott We're totally on the same page Jack! I'm thinking that long term an F250 is the better option payload wise - 6000lb trailers seem to be the tipping point between F150 and F250. That's why we opted to lease our truck instead of purchase. We'll cut our teeth this Summer getting used to our trailer (which is also new to us) and next year after all the chip shortage/manufacturing backlog is cleared up, talk to our dealership about getting out of the lease for an F250 instead.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

Makes complete sense. There’s surely a (fun if challenging) learning curve with a first RV.

Jack

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I have had five F-150's, two F-250's and currently have an F-350, with and F-150 KR Powerboost on the way to replace the F-350. I tow nine different trailers, with the largest being an 18' enclosed car carrier for antique cars, and a 35' boat trailer to tow a World Cat offshore fishing boat that weighs about 7,500 pounds all-in. There's no question that the Superduties are towing beasts. designed for the purpose. And I will be adding air bags to the new F-150, in addition to maxing out the towing option checklist. But what many people don't really get is that a Superduty is no 'bigger' than an F-150 except slightly taller, with beefier suspension. They share bodies and beds.

While you cannot increase gross vehicle weight limits with aftermarket suspension parts/assists, you can keep the "lighter" truck level and smooth, and with careful distribution of contents, it is very possible to balance the gross vehicle weight limits and the maximum towing capacity, and safely tow loads approaching the towing limits. I do some things like running my boat fuel low (200 gallons @ 700 pounds = 1,400 pounds sloshing around) before towing, but the simplest is to carry stuff on/in the trailer instead of in the truck to get the weight right. Know where your nearest CAT or DOT weigh station is located, weigh your truck empty and full, and weigh your trailer. That is the first thing I will do after taking delivery later this month. I know that my truck will come in with a tow rating around 12,000 pounds, but a gross payload weight of around 1,800 pounds. My wife and I weigh 350 combined, and with 200 pounds of luggage, we have to keep tongue weight below 800 pounds. Our first trip in the new truck will be next month, towing the 13'-tall, 7,500-pound World Cat 1,500 miles from South Florida to upstate New York (Lake George), and then back four weeks later. It will be loaded carefully, with stuff in compartments in front and behind the trailer axles to keep the tongue pressure at 800 pounds. How will I know - a Weigh-safe trailer receiver. Then confirmed at a weigh station. And tested at speed to ensure no issues before departure.

Based on experience moving up to the Superduties, and now back down, my sense is that the F-150 will do just fine up to 10,000 pounds towing, with the right planning. And the airbag kit awaits its arrival. Full disclosure: we bought the Florida place mid-COVID (FREEDOM!) and later found that our new-to-us HOA bans any truck over 1/2 ton. They had no interest in the fact that F-150's and F-250/350's are the same size trucks, except 1.5 inches of height. The only thing that mattered is the technicality that a Superduty os called a 3/4-ton truck while an F-150 is 1/2 ton. It'll be REAL interesting to see the reaction when we park the white '21 King Ranch F-150 in the driveway where the white '17 King Ranch F-350 used to sit and they realize there is literally no difference in neighborhood appearance. My wife is betting someone will report us for bringing back the offending truck, since it was such a big deal at three successive board meetings, threatened fines, etc.

 

[RichOK 1941]

Thanks for the great discussion. Caused me to review my towing analysis for my Grand Design 231RK purchased to match my 4x4 King Ranch 2021 F-150 PowerBoost Hybrid with a sticker payload of 1363 lbs. and towing guide limit of 7000 lbs.
I won't bore you with my spreadsheet but will add I purchased a Recurve R6 WDH with adaptive sway control for safety reasons. I will set the WDH for 50% of the trailer hitch weight.
IT'S ALL PHYSICS. F=M x (VxV)
Lastly, I've purchased a BetterWeigh™ Smartphone Tongue Weight Scale (curtmfg.com) to validate my weights and balances and adjust accordingly.

 

[Jack in Prescott]

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough post, Dave. All of it good grist for the mill. But hey, aren't Florida HOA's a kick in the pants! Boy, those were the days...!

Jack

 

[RichOK 1941]

I have had five F-150's, two F-250's and currently have an F-350, with and F-150 KR Powerboost on the way to replace the F-350. I tow nine different trailers, with the largest being an 18' enclosed car carrier for antique cars, and a 35' boat trailer to tow a World Cat offshore fishing boat that weighs about 7,500 pounds all-in. There's no question that the Superduties are towing beasts. designed for the purpose. And I will be adding air bags to the new F-150, in addition to maxing out the towing option checklist. But what many people don't really get is that a Superduty is no 'bigger' than an F-150 except slightly taller, with beefier suspension. They share bodies and beds.

While you cannot increase gross vehicle weight limits with aftermarket suspension parts/assists, you can keep the "lighter" truck level and smooth, and with careful distribution of contents, it is very possible to balance the gross vehicle weight limits and the maximum towing capacity, and safely tow loads approaching the towing limits. I do some things like running my boat fuel low (200 gallons @ 700 pounds = 1,400 pounds sloshing around) before towing, but the simplest is to carry stuff on/in the trailer instead of in the truck to get the weight right. Know where your nearest CAT or DOT weigh station is located, weigh your truck empty and full, and weigh your trailer. That is the first thing I will do after taking delivery later this month. I know that my truck will come in with a tow rating around 12,000 pounds, but a gross payload weight of around 1,800 pounds. My wife and I weigh 350 combined, and with 200 pounds of luggage, we have to keep tongue weight below 800 pounds. Our first trip in the new truck will be next month, towing the 13'-tall, 7,500-pound World Cat 1,500 miles from South Florida to upstate New York (Lake George), and then back four weeks later. It will be loaded carefully, with stuff in compartments in front and behind the trailer axles to keep the tongue pressure at 800 pounds. How will I know - a Weigh-safe trailer receiver. Then confirmed at a weigh station. And tested at speed to ensure no issues before departure.

Based on experience moving up to the Superduties, and now back down, my sense is that the F-150 will do just fine up to 10,000 pounds towing, with the right planning. And the airbag kit awaits its arrival. Full disclosure: we bought the Florida place mid-COVID (FREEDOM!) and later found that our new-to-us HOA bans any truck over 1/2 ton. They had no interest in the fact that F-150's and F-250/350's are the same size trucks, except 1.5 inches of height. The only thing that mattered is the technicality that a Superduty os called a 3/4-ton truck while an F-150 is 1/2 ton. It'll be REAL interesting to see the reaction when we park the white '21 King Ranch F-150 in the driveway where the white '17 King Ranch F-350 used to sit and they realize there is literally no difference in neighborhood appearance. My wife is betting someone will report us for bringing back the offending truck, since it was such a big deal at three successive board meetings, threatened fines, etc.

Suggest you double-check the extended towing guide for your F-150 KR Powerboost or run your VIN number through the computer kiosk at most dealers that give you the payload and tow capacity for your truck. My 4 x4 F-150 KR Powerboost is 1363 payload and 7000 max towing

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