OpenPilot on the F-150 (BlueCruise alternative)

[Jesse-Infotainment]

Is the IPMA physically different (at least new part number)? Do we have to worry about them trying to push encryption via OTA to 21-23? Not that I think they could pull it off since they can't get simple OTAs to work, but they could sure mess things up trying.

The IPMA and Gateway are the same in the 24s I have seen.

So while it is possible its unlikely they will introduce TRON to older trucks. The BCM is different for sure.

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[Ajzride]

The IPMA and Gateway are the same in the 24s I have seen.

So while it is possible its unlikely they will introduce TRON to older trucks. The BCM is different for sure.

So I guess the next question becomes can we just swap out 24 IpMA/PSCM with 23 modules. I'm assuming the BCM will reject them without the TRON.

 

[Jesse-Infotainment]

So I guess the next question becomes can we just swap out 24 IpMA/PSCM with 23 modules. I'm assuming the BCM will reject them without the TRON.

Right. If you install a 24 software into a 21-23 it would reject it due to tron.

 

[Ajzride]

I think this officially kills any chance of getting the F150 officially supported by Comma. I can't see them investing the time to test a vehicle with only a 3year viability window.

 

[Spiffy]

In the long run what does this mean for comma? If they lose the ability to inject their product in all ford's what does that do to their plans. If the Ford is never going to be certified what does that mean for us. We continue to run our own forks? I would hate to see sunnypilot drift away.

 

[Ajzride]

Reading the EU laws, I suspect that comma as a whole will be forced to either sell to or partner with OEMs because once every car is encrypted they will be out of a market. On the upside if they just sell their software to OEMs we will get great a experience, but at the cost of a subscription service.

 

[HammaMan]

Curious if the CCM and mobile eye camera can be hijacked. If you can't hijack the signals to the modules, provide the IPMA a high fidelity source of information to get it to behave in the desired means. Getting it to stop at a light could be as simple as getting it to believe it's pulling up behind a vehicle that's coming to a stop.

This type of cat and mouse game has been going on just as long as technology has been around. Locked ECUs? Hijack the signals it receives. It'll be interesting to see it all play out.

 

[Ajzride]

This type of cat and mouse game has been going on just as long as technology has been around. Locked ECUs? Hijack the signals it receives. It'll be interesting to see it all play out.

I wish I had an extra IPMA to rip apart, see what type of chip is on the board. It could be entirely possible just to put our own OS on it. Basically run Openpilot directly on the IPMA. Then you aren't intercepting anything.

 

[rwxr_xr_x]

Yes, you are not intercepting anything, but I think IPMA includes some SDK/library that does the CAN communication, so your OS/software will have to have to know how to encrypt/decrypt the messages it receives - unless the IPMA has a "panda" in front of it that handles all that and will be kept intact.

 

[Ajzride]

Yes, you are not intercepting anything, but I think IPMA includes some SDK/library that does the CAN communication, so your OS/software will have to have to know how to encrypt/decrypt the messages it receives - unless the IPMA has a "panda" in front of it that handles all that and will be kept intact.

Either way you need the encryption keys at that point.

 

[Jesse-Infotainment]

Not sure if this helps but it may provide some info.

 

[HammaMan]

Not sure if this helps but it may provide some info.

Nice, it all depends on how the encryption is done. That initial handshake is were the MITM can occur. Have you tried installing a new device and initiating the tron handshake? Will it refuse a used device and only accept a 'new' device?

 

[Jesse-Infotainment]

Nice, it all depends on how the encryption is done. That initial handshake is were the MITM can occur. Have you tried installing a new device and initiating the tron handshake? Will it refuse a used device and only accept a 'new' device?

I replaced modules and they were all new. Even if you install a module that has had the authentication in another vehicle it has to be authenticated in the new vehicle. If it isnt youll get one of these DTC. I battled for a while to finally get the modules all accepted. You cant even calibrate the IPMA unless its been authenticated.

 

[Ajzride]

Big news for 2021 - 2023 F150 owners.

SunnyPilot (which is a very popular port of OpenPilot) has released official support for F150, Lightning, and MachE. You can now install from a public URL and will not need any SSH or GitHub manipulations to get the F150 working on a Comma device.

Installer URL: bit.ly/sp-release-c3

After install, navigate to the menu system and find "vehicle". in the upper right is a button to "select your car". from there choose F150 and reboot your device.

 

[labjr1]

I replaced modules and they were all new. Even if you install a module that has had the authentication in another vehicle it has to be authenticated in the new vehicle. If it isnt youll get one of these DTC. I battled for a while to finally get the modules all accepted. You cant even calibrate the IPMA unless its been authenticated.

If you can reset the keys using FDRS you may be able to capture and emulate the keys in the comma device. If you can determine the initial encryption process. If not you may have to jailbreak the GWM and do a module exchange for one where we know the initial encryption methodology. I can see that being a big aftermarket focus for many different modifications.

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