H8 Battery Upgrade May Not Quite Be the Solution That I Hoped For

[PaulGrun]

1000 years ago, in the 1960s and 1970s, I thought I was a halfway decent "shade-tree mechanic". I may have thought too highly of myself. Plus, these trucks are technological marvels compared to what I am used to. I had a steep technology learning curve when I I ordered my '22 Lariat (replaced a '00 Silverado). But situations like this make me shake my head, and think, "Stop it. Just leave it alone. If it doesn't start, then put jumper cables on it or a battery charger on it".

In other words, in my attempt to become more current, I think I have actually hindered myself....

I think that many of us have had that same experience and feeling. Modern vehicles are, indeed, marvels of technology and engineering. The problem is that at a certain point what we used to think we knew, or what felt like "common sense" no longer applies. This whole discussion about batteries, charging systems and SOC are an excellent case in point. The plain fact is that what seems like common sense ("set the SOC parameter to 95%") turns out to be anything but. To this day, I have no reliable idea about what that SOC threshold parameter actually does, but I'm about 95% certain that it doesn't do what 'common sense' tells us it does.
I've forgotten the exact number, but someone once mentioned the number of tables (family of curves) that are built into the BMS solely for the purpose of regulating the charging system ... it was somewhere in the triple digits range.

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[Davexxxx]

I think it is a good thing to be aware, that we don't know what we don't know but I don't think it is particularly helpful, to disregard the 1000s of cumulative man hours of detailed observations some members have put in, monitoring SOC under various conditions, or whatever successes they've had, with various procedures.

And its not like recommended use and charging protocols for AGMs are some sort of smoky, mystery, known only to Ford Engineers.

And the problems were real, numbering in the millions (?) and Ford did put out an OTA that adjusted it, so it wasn't right to begin with.

 

[Kanuck]

Just a side note about battery SOC..... This has even infected my new S24 phone that will only charge to 80% at night to PROLONG BATTERY LIFE but to 100% if charged during the day. So this SOC charging logic is not just in our trucks, but other devices as well.

 

[Eighthtry]

Soon as my original H6 goes dead in my 2021 F150 Lariat 5.0 I will replace it with a H8 of some kind. Already have the blanket.

I put a 2 amp Schumacher trickle charger on the H6 every two or three weeks when it is not been driven. Seems to work well for me. No strange things happen. Now in the house it can get weird.

 

[FirstFord]

I think that many of us have had that same experience and feeling. Modern vehicles are, indeed, marvels of technology and engineering. The problem is that at a certain point what we used to think we knew, or what felt like "common sense" no longer applies. This whole discussion about batteries, charging systems and SOC are an excellent case in point. The plain fact is that what seems like common sense ("set the SOC parameter to 95%") turns out to be anything but. To this day, I have no reliable idea about what that SOC threshold parameter actually does, but I'm about 95% certain that it doesn't do what 'common sense' tells us it does.
I've forgotten the exact number, but someone once mentioned the number of tables (family of curves) that are built into the BMS solely for the purpose of regulating the charging system ... it was somewhere in the triple digits range.

All along, all of your contributions throughout this thread, you have laid out a perhaps (?) somewhat contrarian (?) viewpoint, BUT a rational, well-reasoned argument. Solely in the interest of full disclosure, I will admit that I resisted fully coming over to your way of thinking. For one reason - and one of your own arguments - was that your reasoning appeared to go against common sense. However, after today, I will confess that I am now fully onboard with your thinking and rationale. I took the truck out today after sitting for 2 days (and not on the battery maintainer). SOC was 58%, charging at 14.2V. In less than 2 miles, the SOC was up to 63% (I've never seen it raise that quickly). By the time I got back home from the short trip, it was 68%. I have even given up shaking my head in wonder and disbelief. I have surrendered. I now view the SOC PID as a mere curiosity, and no longer view it as indicative that something is - or may be - wrong. You have won me over to your side. These trucks and their technology are so far beyond me.....

But in the big picture - and in keeping with the matter of the Subject Line - I'm still glad that I upgraded to a larger battery size.

 

[Eighthtry]

Just remember1 1/2 to 2 amps trickle until the green light appears every month or so keeps you up and running.

 

[tomcaudell]

Warning - an unconventional opinion follows...

I am struck by the number of posts along the lines of, "everything was fine and I was happy, until I started looking at PIDs. Now I'm worried and wanting to put my truck on life support..."

There's an old saw among engineers along the lines of "giving the customer too much information can be a bad thing". I think this may be happening here. To be perfectly blunt, how many folks here actually know what SOC means, and how to interpret the current value?

The state of charge on any battery is always going to rise and fall over time; does anyone know what the Ford specs are for the acceptable range for the battery? Who's to say that a 45% SOC isn't perfectly normal given that the next time the truck is driven the BMS will undoubtedly oversee the maintenance of the battery, bringing it back up or letting it fade according to a charging algorithm to which I bet none of us are privy. On a similar note, why do we all seem to believe that a healthy battery / BMS system means the battery is "full" most or all of the time? Aren't these things designed to operate within a nominal operating range?

Personally, I don't think a modern vehicle, even one with a plethora of electronic geegaws, should require regular plugging into a battery maintainer. This is pure anecdotal evidence on my part, but my usage of my truck ('22 PB) is about the worst thing you can imagine from a battery perspective...sits in the driveway for long periods of time (when I get home this time, it will have been sitting in the driveway for more than three weeks ... let's see if it starts right up or not), often gets driven less than 2 miles to the grocery store and back with periodic long trips in the mix. I've never had a problem with the electrical system and am still on the original OEM batteries. Sure, once in a while I get "low power mode" when shutting the truck down, but so what? It still starts right up the next time I get in. I hope I haven't just jinxed myself.

Don't get me wrong, I am ALL IN on understanding these complex beasts and doing everything we reasonably can to maintain them at a high level so they don't leave us stranded by the side of the road.

My earnest advice? Disconnect the OBD unless there seems to be something truly going wrong. Otherwise, drive the truck and be happy.

The problem is I don’t get the software updates at all or only half loads and I have to go 50 miles to a dealer to get the update reinstalled. You are right it has always started but often it won’t start with the remote start feature. Twice I took it to the dealer and left it over night hoping the would fix the charging program or replace a bad battery. They did not do ether. So like I stated earlier in this thread. Looks like I’ll get a dodge next time and save 20k to spend on electrical issues and batteries if it needs one. Plus I will have the money to buy the extended warranty. JUST SAYING.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Is your H8 a Ford battery? If so you'll likely end up seeing the same problems.

 

[PaulGrun]

The problem is I don’t get the software updates at all or only half loads and I have to go 50 miles to a dealer to get the update reinstalled. You are right it has always started but often it won’t start with the remote start feature. Twice I took it to the dealer and left it over night hoping the would fix the charging program or replace a bad battery. They did not do ether. So like I stated earlier in this thread. Looks like I’ll get a dodge next time and save 20k to spend on electrical issues and batteries if it needs one. Plus I will have the money to buy the extended warranty. JUST SAYING.

I am not saying that there are no problems with Ford’s design of its electrical system. Witness the fact that they apparently released a “stealth” update to their charging algorithm several years ago after which the rate of complaints about electrical problems here on the forum dropped pretty significantly. But they didn’t go to zero - there are still some folks experiencing intermittent “stop driving now” issues and those having troubles with OTAs.
My comment was really addressing the anxiety that some folks are feeling stimulated by carefully monitoring the SOC via an OBD system. My claim was/is that that particular PID wasn’t intended as a diagnostic tool, just based on the way the SOC is calculated and used by the BMS. So watching that PID may not be giving us the info we think it is.
As for not receiving OTAs, it is absolutely true that “some” updates will not be installed unless the system believes that there is sufficient energy available to complete the update. So a low SOC will apparently inhibit some updates from being installed.
The part about OTAs is complicated by the question as to whether OTAs are delivered (not installed - downloaded) via cellular or WiFi and the apparent observation that some OTAs won’t be downloaded if there is an active WiFi connection - which seems kinda quirky. Again, two separate issues that are easy to conflate - downloading vs installing a new download.

I don’t know, but suspect that a few years ago Ford experienced a “double fault” - two unrelated things that went wrong at the same time, which really confused things and makes diagnosis very hard. Those two things were the problem with the original charging algorithm mentioned above and potentially a batch of defective batteries. Both faults exhibited themselves in similar ways, which is what makes diagnosing a so-called double fault devilishly hard. That’s just wild speculation on my part. But if true, I am guessing that it led a non-zero number of consumers to blame bad batteries for what was actually a charging algorithm problem and vice versa.

Anyway, the hangover from that era seems to be one of two beliefs: one is that boosting the SOC threshold via Forscan will help, and the other is that there is a need for regular “maintenance” charging.
For sure, there are folks who will offer anecdotal evidence that one or the other approach solved all their problems. I am not one to deny anybody’s personal experiences. But I’m not sure those experiences apply across the board.

As for moving from Ford to Dodge, it often seems that the grass is greener on the other side. I say “whatever makes you happy” is probably the right approach for you.
Cheers!

 

[pjc123]

I also upgraded to an H8 battery on my 2024 F150 (non-Motocraft battery). All it did was extend the time I get low battery warnings a little bit. It used to take around 2 weeks to get the warning, now it is around 3 weeks or so. Better, but not as good as I expected.

 

[PaulGrun]

I also upgraded to an H8 battery on my 2024 F150 (non-Motocraft battery). All it did was extend the time I get low battery warnings a little bit. It used to take around 2 weeks to get the warning, now it is around 3 weeks or so. Better, but not as good as I expected.

That’s exactly what I would expect. All a larger battery does is to increase capacity, but it doesn’t change how that capacity is filled or consumed. Thanks for your observation.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I installed a NAPA H7 battery at about 4 months service since new. The odd alerts, etc stopped. No changes of things like max charge or battery maintainer charging. I believe the common thread in most of these issues is a Ford battery. Along the way I have an instrument light for some added gauges and have forgotten leaving it on overnight or over two or three days. Small load for sure, but no problems arose as a result.

 

[Savannah Power]

Do yourself a favor and get an X2 battery, size H7 and most of these problems will go away. Battery is a hybrid start/deep cycle, weighs about 5# more than a typical H7, and can exhibit a higher static voltage. Don't forget the mini battery under rear seat, probably best to pay $75 for the Ford brand, for reasons including non-standard connections.

 

[Eighthtry]

I have not experienced the problems that others have with their batteries. I still have the original FOMOCO in my '21. One oft repeating comment has to do with the frequency of driving, driving short trips, or both. My truck has been parked about 6 or so months. Prior to that it specialized in occasional short trips to Ace Hardware. Parked outside for most of the time. A couple of weeks ago I pulled it out and put about 10 miles on it. Parked it again.

I put my 2 amp trickle on it periodically. No problems.

My only truck fear is that I start treating it like my treadmill. Instead of a closet it becomes a storage bin.

About to finally get it back out on the road in a couple of months. No telling how many hundreds of updates I am behind that will not download, or some updates download successfully but change the paint color. But at least I expect to at least be driving it on a regular basis soon.

 

[Calson]

The parasitic draw on my truck's battery was on the order of 80 amp hours overnight. I would have needed to add a second battery to the truck to deal with that level of problem.

I suggest people check the forums for Toyota, Ram, and Chevy trucks for posts about battery problems. You will not find them on these forums. It is a problem specific to Ford vehicles, and not only the Ford pickups.

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