GM's Android Automotive: A bad omen for Ford?

[GDN]

Yeah, but they're also continually monitoring your telemetry, but pulling images from your cameras too. It's all a double edged sword. Their entertainment CPU/GPU are made using the latest PC grade silicon that's vastly superior to others. The new go-to processor for the industry however is more than adequate for their entertainment and screen duties. Tesla isn't using their hardware efficiently however -- there's far more parasitic loss to their various systems w/ key off than makes sense.

If you don't think your telemetry is known and recorded today from Ford, GM and all others you're in for a surprise.

There is little to no parasitic drain from a Tesla. They can sit for days and weeks with little vampire drain. It was a thing at one time, but not any more. The "drain" that is there today is to run valid cameras and sentry mode which is becoming one of the most asked about features in the Lightning forum and other brands.

Its time others quit promising and undelivering. The CPU in the latest Tesla is what consumers demand and what it takes to run these systems. The Lightning (runs the same computer as the ICE and Mach E) is pathetic for speech recognition, POI interpretation and navigation. It can't even keep up changing screens. They've programmed in a message, that the last operation failed to complete its so bad.

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[hotrodmex]

Just like Android in general, Everyone will have their own flavor of Android Automotive. I'm not going to infer Ford's performance based on GMs implementation, which also has to factor in their fractured hardware.

The only thing these two will have in common is the base OS. I'm sure every single other thing will be different.

 

[HammaMan]

If you don't think your telemetry is known and recorded today from Ford, GM and all others you're in for a surprise.

There is little to no parasitic drain from a Tesla. They can sit for days and weeks with little vampire drain. It was a thing at one time, but not any more. The "drain" that is there today is to run valid cameras and sentry mode which is becoming one of the most asked about features in the Lightning forum and other brands.

Its time others quit promising and undelivering. The CPU in the latest Tesla is what consumers demand and what it takes to run these systems. The Lightning (runs the same computer as the ICE and Mach E) is pathetic for speech recognition, POI interpretation and navigation. It can't even keep up changing screens. They've programmed in a message, that the last operation failed to complete its so bad.

Pushing and holding the voice button engages android's voice system which is superior to anything else I've used. The new sync CPU that should be showing up this year uses the qualcomm 8155 that's powering nearly every new vehicle allowing for 3x 4k60 displays. It's a significant jump above the ~9yr old unit currently in sync 4. Given that they're not going to forklift the vehicles that receive them, it should be a matter of obtaining them and programming them for the rest of us.

The current unit is without complaint in the 12" screens, it's unbearable in the 15" units. Tesla was selling themselves as a "software" company, among other things, yet has failed to deliver a product to market. Their stock price will continue to reflect such. There's only so much vaporware one can hype before facts set in. Just as they've been going to open up charging to other platforms. Lots of promises, little actual performance.

As android's vehicle OS becomes more ubiquitous, we'll see the shortcomings of OEMs to adapt to new tech become faster. Ford at least says they know they've got a ways to go. That doesn't mean it will magically be fixed. The 2024 mustang is using the new hardware and it looks quite good. I curse the mach-e regularly, but on the flipside, it doesn't look like a catfish so there's that relief. I took it over tesla simply because less, IS LESS. Based on what ford has said for china at least, the 8155 should fit current MMEs.

As for how the 2 GPUs stack up, here's a side by side comparison......

 

[HammaMan]

I've got over a dozen computers around the office here that smoke tesla's offerings so I've got no shortcomings there. Sure I'd stuff a 4090 in the MME if it could hold it simply because I can. But it'd give zero utility over what the 'new' 8155 will bring.

In the end I'll get the instant performance I demand, all while not looking like a catfish.

 

[AdamsCoyote]

Just one man’s opinion but the Android Automotive interface looks awful, at least based on that article. Color me not shocked that GM has found the absolute worst way to take advantage of the tech in those vehicles, though.

I have no interest in leveraging built-in entertainment and navigation features in any vehicle, whether it’s a Ford, GM, Tesla, whatever. I need a vehicle investment to span years, and I want to be able to stay more bleeding-edge with those things. I have no need for my vehicle to do voice recognition when my phone can do that. I would happily completely disable the completely useless built-in voice recognition.

As long as the interface between my phone and the vehicle is well-integrated (getting the navigation guidance In the instrument cluster, for example, allowing easy triggering of my phone’s voice recognition, allowing the phone to take over all* of the large central display, etc.) then I am happy to delegate these tasks to the $1000 computer I keep in my pocket and replace roughly every year. In no small part because that pocket computer can run on hardware that hasn’t had to be certified that it can survive a moon landing (so it’s more current) and failures don’t run the risk of killing everyone in my truck, so the updates are more frequent.

 

[HammaMan]

Just one man’s opinion but the Android Automotive interface looks awful, at least based on that article. Color me not shocked that GM has found the absolute worst way to take advantage of the tech in those vehicles, though.

I have no interest in leveraging built-in entertainment and navigation features in any vehicle, whether it’s a Ford, GM, Tesla, whatever. I need a vehicle investment to span years, and I want to be able to stay more bleeding-edge with those things. I have no need for my vehicle to do voice recognition when my phone can do that. I would happily completely disable the completely useless built-in voice recognition.

As long as the interface between my phone and the vehicle is well-integrated (getting the navigation guidance In the instrument cluster, for example, allowing easy triggering of my phone’s voice recognition, allowing the phone to take over all* of the large central display, etc.) then I am happy to delegate these tasks to the $1000 computer I keep in my pocket and replace roughly every year. In no small part because that pocket computer can run on hardware that hasn’t had to be certified that it can survive a moon landing (so it’s more current) and failures don’t run the risk of killing everyone in my truck, so the updates are more frequent.

The issue w/ sync 4 on the 15" screen is that ford decided to copy tesla's "less is less" strategy and put the damn HVAC / seat / Swheel heater controls on that stupid display. Hands down the worst "less is way, way less" approach. Keep the infotainment system just that. Don't put controls in it that have no place in it. On 'start', climate should be immediately available -- not something I have to screw with already on the road because the damn thing is booting. Touch screen controls for such settings is just horrible, especially while driving. Very dangerous to manipulate -- it's been found to be more dangerous than using a cellphone, rather unsurprisingly.

I've got the 12" F150 display powered by the exact same hardware and it boots / loads significantly faster because it's not having to initialize / wait on other ECUs to boot before it can finish initializing. Thankfully the phone powers maps / music / voice systems else I'd sell it. I've destroyed half a dozen computers for dragging ass. It's pretty satisfying to snap a laptop in two over the knee for wasting my time. It's like commercial television, have no time for it.

 

[AdamsCoyote]

The issue w/ sync 4 on the 15" screen is that ford decided to copy tesla's "less is less" strategy and put the damn HVAC / seat / Swheel heater controls on that stupid display. Hands down the worst "less is way, way less" approach. Keep the infotainment system just that. Don't put controls in it that have no place in it. On 'start', climate should be immediately available -- not something I have to screw with already on the road because the damn thing is booting. Touch screen controls for such settings is just horrible, especially while driving. Very dangerous to manipulate -- it's been found to be more dangerous than using a cellphone, rather unsurprisingly.

I've got the 12" F150 display powered by the exact same hardware and it boots / loads significantly faster because it's not having to initialize / wait on other ECUs to boot before it can finish initializing. Thankfully the phone powers maps / music / voice systems else I'd sell it. I've destroyed half a dozen computers for dragging ass. It's pretty satisfying to snap a laptop in two over the knee for wasting my time. It's like commercial television, have no time for it.

Yikes, yes, I would hate that. I hate that the HVAC controls are in the Sync3 display in my 2018 Explorer, but at least there are hard buttons for them too. Hate that the only way to turn on the heated steering wheel is on the screen.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

The issue w/ sync 4 on the 15" screen is that ford decided to copy tesla's "less is less" strategy and put the damn HVAC / seat / Swheel heater controls on that stupid display. Hands down the worst "less is way, way less" approach. Keep the infotainment system just that. Don't put controls in it that have no place in it. On 'start', climate should be immediately available -- not something I have to screw with already on the road because the damn thing is booting. Touch screen controls for such settings is just horrible, especially while driving. Very dangerous to manipulate -- it's been found to be more dangerous than using a cellphone, rather unsurprisingly.

I've got the 12" F150 display powered by the exact same hardware and it boots / loads significantly faster because it's not having to initialize / wait on other ECUs to boot before it can finish initializing. Thankfully the phone powers maps / music / voice systems else I'd sell it. I've destroyed half a dozen computers for dragging ass. It's pretty satisfying to snap a laptop in two over the knee for wasting my time. It's like commercial television, have no time for it.

All of the temp controls, heated seats, heated steering wheel, ventalated seat controls are knobs and buttons on my Platinum with the big screen. They are also voice controlled.

Plus.... You might want to have your anger issues checked out.

 

[HammaMan]

All of the temp controls, heated seats, heated steering wheel, ventalated seat controls are knobs and buttons on my Platinum with the big screen. They are also voice controlled.

Plus.... You might want to have your anger issues checked out.

Yes, the 12" screen F150s are just perfect. Perfect size, physical climate buttons.
The 15" screen units SUCK to put it nicely (lightning and mach-e).

I don't have anger issues, like magic, when the offending device ceased to exist, my day got brighter

 

[Big Cam]

Yes, the 12" screen F150s are just perfect. Perfect size, physical climate buttons.
The 15" screen units SUCK to put it nicely (lightning and mach-e).

I don't have anger issues, like magic, when the offending device ceased to exist, my day got brighter

This^^^^ Use whatever OS you want for your infotainment, I'll adapt, but don't ever get rid of physical buttons for stuff like climate, I'd be livid if it was the middle of winter and I couldn't use the heat because my screen crashed or whatever.

 

[HammaMan]

This^^^^ Use whatever OS you want for your infotainment, I'll adapt, but don't ever get rid of physical buttons for stuff like climate, I'd be livid if it was the middle of winter and I couldn't use the heat because my screen crashed or whatever.

My hope is that the transition over to the android powered OS brings faster performance from better code, and faster updates given that Ford is likely going to just skin it. The only time I'm not in my android auto interface is to change a setting and for that, I don't care what it looks like.

On the MME what sucks is that you MUST program the vehicles nav system to a charger in order to get the vehicle to do a DCFC prep (pre cool or pre heat the batt). Ford needs to put in a "fast charge" prep button, but I think they get a kick out of forcing people to use their nav.

 

[Highway 11]

Yes, the 12" screen F150s are just perfect. Perfect size, physical climate buttons.
The 15" screen units SUCK to put it nicely (lightning and mach-e).

I don't have anger issues, like magic, when the offending device ceased to exist, my day got brighter

I agree with this sentiment. That screen is pushing the edge of useful/usable, and I like my buttons for controls. The wife's car has touchscreen controls for everything... nothing like waiting for infotainment to boot up to turn on your heat and heated seats in the middle of January.

 

[HammaMan]

I agree with this sentiment. That screen is pushing the edge of useful/usable, and I like my buttons for controls. The wife's car has touchscreen controls for everything... nothing like waiting for infotainment to boot up to turn on your heat and heated seats in the middle of January.

Fortunately for the MME the remote "start" turns it all on and I use it religiously (but that seat heater gets damn hot fast). I love the EV for the fact that 1, I get in, hit "start", drop to D and I'm off in 5 seconds. No cold ICE to worry about -- just can't hop into a ICE vehicle w/ cold engine and not let it get a few minutes of warmup. Remote start solves that (except for the powerboost in moderate temps, it waits until the HVB is low before turning on).

I have a lot of sub 1 mile drives and it's just too hard on the PB w/ the engine never getting up to temp. Then of course there's cost to fuel. I beat the hell out of my mach-e so my mileage sucks, but even still it costs much less to fuel it.

To drive 190 miles like a bat out of hell in the MME, it's $2.80 in electricity.
To drive a really easy 190 miles in the powerboost costs $26.60 in gas.

I've got 20kW worth of solar panels going on the new shop -- it will be not only completely off grid, it will be able to power the MME for free. I will however still be tapping the PoCo from 11p-7a for my 3.4 cents out the door per kWh. Love the PB though -- the only thing I'd replace it with is a PHEV version, if I don't make a version myself by then. (being energy independent for travels and living is just awesome)

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