GM Features You Wish Ford Had

[Samson16]

What/why are you checking for on your watch when you are looking to pass people? Don't you have a clock on your dash? Are you saying that the 5.3L can't keep up with regular traffic?

We've test driven the 5.3L and the 6.2L in GMC Yukon XLs and the Chevy Suburbans. The 6.2 is nice, but the 5.3 was fine for daily driving. The police fleet market seems to think the 5.3 works fine in their Tahoe PPV fleets.

As far as "winding it up", I actually enjoyed that aspect of the 5.0 Coyote more than the 5.3L or 6.2L. That was really fun. It's a shame Ford has had so many years to refine the shift strategy on their 10 speeds and they just don't seem as polished as the GM shift strategy.

For a similar price GM offered me this instead of my PB:
The 2022 GMC Sierra 1500 equipped with the 5.3-liter V8 engine delivers a balance of power and fuel efficiency suitable for various driving needs.

Power Output:
• Horsepower: 355 hp at 5,600 rpm
• Torque: 383 lb-ft at 4,100 rpm


Fuel Economy:
Fuel efficiency varies based on drivetrain configuration:
• 2WD Models:
• City: 16 mpg
• Highway: 21 mpg
• Combined: 18 mpg

• 4WD Models:
• City: 15 mpg
• Highway: 19 mpg
• Combined: 16 mpg

Nearly 100 fewer HP and 200 less TQ all while providing 16mpg combined?

It’s no contest based on powertrain alone and that’s before considering the vastly superior idling performance and 7.2kW on board power.

You have to purchase a 6.2L GMC to begin any legitimate comparison.

Sponsored

 

[Samson16]

While a different power plant all together, my previous 3.0 babymax absolutely got much better fuel economy than my PB, it’s not even close really. I could see 30 mpg or higher without trying. Fantastic engine.

The mpg number comes back down to earth a bit when we factor in the increased cost of a diesel, but it is more efficient. The PB is vastly superior idling, quieter, and more powerful.

 

[JExpedition07]

I also didn’t enjoy the way the GM pushrods drove. Ford V8’s are unique with the OHC architecture allowing very high rpm operation. The 5.0L makes 30 lb ft more torque than the 5.3 at 4,000 revs, but it also keeps piling on more excess power in those upper revs where a pushrod just cannot breath anymore. It’s great for us! But the caveat is that the 5.0 is expensive to make. 4 cams, better pistons, better connecting rods, forged crankshaft. The 5.0 requires a lot better internals to run the compression ratio and piston speeds we run, 7,000 rpm is no joke. I’m not saying it’s bad for us, but the way GM sees it is that the 5.0 has way higher development costs and way higher parts manufacturing costs. They aren’t going to make that move when their 1950’s based small block architecture is long bought and paid for.

They get away with a cheap cast crank, single injection systems, and less complex computing. Think of all the extra brain power the 5.0 has to run 4 cams and change the overlap, and lop on the dual injection system. A lot of extra expense GM isn’t willing to take on.

 

[Polo08816]

For a similar price GM offered me this instead of my PB:
The 2022 GMC Sierra 1500 equipped with the 5.3-liter V8 engine delivers a balance of power and fuel efficiency suitable for various driving needs.

Power Output:
• Horsepower: 355 hp at 5,600 rpm
• Torque: 383 lb-ft at 4,100 rpm


Fuel Economy:
Fuel efficiency varies based on drivetrain configuration:
• 2WD Models:
• City: 16 mpg
• Highway: 21 mpg
• Combined: 18 mpg

• 4WD Models:
• City: 15 mpg
• Highway: 19 mpg
• Combined: 16 mpg

Nearly 100 fewer HP and 200 less TQ all while providing 16mpg combined?

It’s no contest based on powertrain alone and that’s before considering the vastly superior idling performance and 7.2kW on board power.

You have to purchase a 6.2L GMC to begin any legitimate comparison.

We're not even considering the PB. We already have 3 turbocharged cars - we don't need more of that complexity. We had a Hybrid Honda Civic with the 5MT back in the day. When that hybrid battery failed it triggered the CEL which means it would not pass emissions. The cost of the hybrid battery and labor to replace it erased all the gas savings - again, we don't need that hybrid powertrain complexity.

Interestingly enough, GM probably sells far more Duramax 1500s than Ford sells PB F150s.

We wouldn't consider a hybrid until:
1. It doesn't sacrifice gas tank capacity.
2. Is able to provide significant braking capability on downhill portions.
3. Is able to provide significant and sustained power on a 20-30 min uphill portion.
3. It ditches the turbochargers in favor of a NA V8.


We were comparing the 2025 F150 Lariat CC + 6.5 bed with the 5.0L against a 2025 Sierra 1500 SLT CC + 6.5 ft bed + 6.2L. Pricing wise, they were very comparable. I think Granger Ford had it around $65k and Laura GMC has the Sierra around $63k when you factor in all the incentives I'm eligible for.

 

[Polo08816]

I also didn’t enjoy the way the GM pushrods drove. Ford V8’s are unique with the OHC architecture allowing very high rpm operation. The 5.0L makes 30 lb ft more torque than the 5.3 at 4,000 revs, but it also keeps piling on more excess power in those upper revs where a pushrod just cannot breath anymore. It’s great for us! But the caveat is that the 5.0 is expensive to make. 4 cams, better pistons, better connecting rods, forged crankshaft. The 5.0 requires a lot better internals to run the compression ratio and piston speeds we run, 7,000 rpm is no joke. I’m not saying it’s bad for us, but the way GM sees it is that the 5.0 has way higher development costs and way higher parts manufacturing costs. They aren’t going to make that move when their 1950’s based small block architecture is long bought and paid for.

They get away with a cheap cast crank, single injection systems, and less complex computing. Think of all the extra brain power the 5.0 has to run 4 cams and change the overlap, and lop on the dual injection system. A lot of extra expense GM isn’t willing to take on.

Agreed. I really liked the 5.0 Coyote.

You are correct about the cost. I believe a replacement 5.0 Coyote long block is around $9,000 to $10,000. A replacement 5.3L or 6.2L is anywhere from $2500-$2800.

 

[Samson16]

Interestingly enough, GM probably sells far more Duramax 1500s than Ford sells PB F150s.

It can’t be interesting until it’s true.

“Interestingly enough, Ford sells far more PB than GM does 3.0 diesels.”

See. We have equal evidence for our positions.

The 5.0 vs 6.2 is a valid comparison. My PB is superior to both, but it’s a valid comparison.

 

[Polo08816]

It can’t be interesting until it’s true.

“Interestingly enough, Ford sells far more PB than GM does 3.0 diesels.”

See. We have equal evidence for our positions.

The 5.0 vs 6.2 is a valid comparison. My PB is superior to both, but it’s a valid comparison.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/1...-pickups-than-ford-sold-f-150-hybrid-pickups/

... GM Authority and Ford Authority are both owned by Motrolix.

If the PB were superior to all of them, we would have considered it but Ford hasn't achieved that yet - and their sales number reflect that.

They need to be able to achieve the following:
1. Doesn't sacrifice gas tank capacity.
2. Able to provide significant braking capability on downhill portions.
3. Able to provide significant and sustained power on a 20-30 min uphill portion.
4. Fire risk in terms of damage and frequency equal to that of an ICE vehicle.
5. Same cost to maintain and repair over the long term of up to 10-15 years as an ICE variant.

 

[Ghurst]

I miss the 6.2 I had in my 1500 Denali! That being said…. I don’t miss the number 4 bank of lifters going out twice under warranty and a third time out of warranty! Third time the lifters took the camshaft with them. Same bank 3 times in 95k miles! If gm hadn’t pissed me off with their “help” ( $550 dollars in my gm rewards account)….i might have considered another gm. Oh well…. The rewards points went to tires for my f150! ??

 

[Samson16]

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/1...-pickups-than-ford-sold-f-150-hybrid-pickups/

... GM Authority and Ford Authority are both owned by Motrolix.

If the PB were superior to all of them, we would have considered it but Ford hasn't achieved that yet - and their sales number reflect that.

They need to be able to achieve the following:
1. Doesn't sacrifice gas tank capacity.
2. Able to provide significant braking capability on downhill portions.
3. Able to provide significant and sustained power on a 20-30 min uphill portion.
4. Fire risk in terms of damage and frequency equal to that of an ICE vehicle.
5. Same cost to maintain and repair over the long term of up to 10-15 years as an ICE variant.

Motrolix didn’t provide any data even after lumping in Chevy with GMC. Something that isn’t done when the F-150 is crowned the best selling pickup year after year.

1. Fuel tank size? Really? The GMC 1500 SLT 6.2L has a 24g fuel tank ?

Buy whatever you want and I love the choices we have, but the PB is the best half ton pickup made.

 

[Polo08816]

Motrolix didn’t provide any data even after lumping in Chevy with GMC. Something that isn’t done when the F-150 is crowned the best selling pickup year after year.

1. Fuel tank size? Really? The GMC 1500 SLT 6.2L has a 24g fuel tank ?

Buy whatever you want and I love the choices we have, but the PB is the best half ton pickup made.

3 months ago that 24 gallon fuel tank size would have been a non-starter - the F150 would have been the only choice. But there is going to be an aftermarket solution for that soon and this is what changed our calculus:

https://longrangeamerica.com/produc...cabcrew-cab-short-bed---50-gallon-replacement

Just because you keeping cheerleading a choice you have already made doesn't make it true.

 

[Polo08816]

I miss the 6.2 I had in my 1500 Denali! That being said…. I don’t miss the number 4 bank of lifters going out twice under warranty and a third time out of warranty! Third time the lifters took the camshaft with them. Same bank 3 times in 95k miles! If gm hadn’t pissed me off with their “help” ( $550 dollars in my gm rewards account)….i might have considered another gm. Oh well…. The rewards points went to tires for my f150! ??

I think that remains a concern with the L84/L87 series. I think that problem is less prevalent in 2024+ L84/L87 engines. The L87 long block has had a new part number since March 2024 time frame - I presume to address potential bottom end problems. Fortunately, the L84/L87 appears to be easy to fix. I mean - on how many engines can you remove the cylinder head without pulling the engine from the vehicle?

I still think the 5.0 Coyote is a better engine - but I do think the GM 1500 is a better overall package but not by much.

 

[redline]

Was arguing with a relative tonight come in for Thanksgiving week. He's a GMC guy, I'm Team Blue Oval. He asked me what about GM trucks do I wish Ford had? There really aren't many I can think of, but I came with:

1) Rear bumper corner step. I like Ford's pull out step, but there is no reason you can't do both. That is a simple feature that is useful. Wish F150 had it.

2) Duramax Diesel in the 1500. I would have gotten a 14th Gen Powerstroke if they kept making it. Even then, I think the Babymax is still better than the Ford half-ton diesel. This in my opinion is the only half-ton engine option that GM edges Ford out in.

3) Better bed lengths. Looks like the short bed for GM is about 5'8" as opposed to 5'5". I don't want a standard box,, but those 3 inches seem nice,

Really that is all I could think of....

This and GMC tailgate is the best… I need swe PAT in action but I still think f
gmc is better

 

[Polo08816]

This and GMC tailgate is the best… I need swe PAT in action but I still think f
gmc is better

One thing I wanted to add is there appears to be more aftermarket options for aspects that I would care about.

I want to preface it with saying that this doesn't make GM or Ford better - it's just that I think there's more potential with GM to suit my driving preferences.

1. There's little aftermarket support for the Ford Max Tow axle. You need this option for the better rear brakes, but there's no aftermarket option for the rear diff for a Torsen based limited slip at the moment. The driving that I anticipate doing will never lift more than 1 tire off the ground - it's regular roads, campsite / firetrails, and snow covered roads. I'm not rock crawling so I really don't have a need for a rear locker. There's plenty of aftermarket support for GM's 9.75 rear end to include the Eaton TrueTrac. This type of LSD is great because it allows you to apply throttle sooner and faster than an open rear diff coming out of a corner/sweeper.

2. Aftermarket support for Ford brakes are limited or extremely expensive. In an ideal world, I'd like to have better front AND rear brakes. Emphasis on rear brakes because when you are towing, you'll see most of the load over the rear axle. However, we can't always get what we want. For the GM, it's relatively inexpensive to retrofit the J55 front brakes used on the PPV vehicles - massive 6 piston Brembo calipers and 16 in rotors:
https://www.tahoeyukonforum.com/threads/2021-tahoe-ppv-massive-oem-brakes-16.123236/post-1863715
Improved brakes provide better pedal feel and allow an experience driver to have more options to balance the vehicle when its closer to its handling limits. Better brakes allow you to transfer more weight to the front axle in the event you to get more traction on turn in by trail braking. You'll get more rotation and you can get the vehicle pointed in desired direction sooner. This will allow you to apply throttle sooner (preferably with the assistance of an LSD).


Also, when we were test driving the F150, the brakes seemed to be more sensitive than the GM products. Frankly, the GM's brakes required more travel in order to get the same braking force. My SO wasn't able to drive the F150 as smoothly as the GMC 1500 - or she wasn't as quick to adjust to it as I was. (We both track our cars in HPDEs but she started later so she's in a different level run group).

We both did feel like the F150 drives more car like and it's easier to know where the 4 corners of the vehicle are compared to the GMC Sierra 1500.

 

[Samson16]

3 months ago that 24 gallon fuel tank size would have been a non-starter - the F150 would have been the only choice. But there is going to be an aftermarket solution for that soon and this is what changed our calculus:

https://longrangeamerica.com/produc...cabcrew-cab-short-bed---50-gallon-replacement

Just because you keeping cheerleading a choice you have already made doesn't make it true.

Of course you’re right cheerleading my choice doesn’t make it true. And I hope you enjoy the banter as much as I do.

Sure, an aftermarket fuel tank will get you closer to me. I’m trying to think of something aftermarket for me…perhaps a nice V8 rumble sound for an occasional nostalgic cruise through town ?

 

[Polo08816]

Of course you’re right cheerleading my choice doesn’t make it true. And I hope you enjoy the banter as much as I do.

Sure, an aftermarket fuel tank will get you closer to me. I’m trying to think of something aftermarket for me…perhaps a nice V8 rumble sound for an occasional nostalgic cruise through town ?

idk.. 50 gallons of gas can get someone pretty far. If I use 9mpg as a typical towing number, that's 450 miles of range when towing on the highway. It'll get me to Mid Ohio, Pitt Race, Watkins Glen, and VIR without a re-fuel.

Ford's 36 gallon fuel tank on the non PB models is satisfactory too. I wouldn't bother with an aftermarket replacement with a 36 gallon factory tank.

GM's factory gas tank capacity is just pitiful.

Sponsored