Front Differential

[Johnny K]

I discovered the front pinion seal leaking and had the dealer replace it under warranty. (42,000 miles) Unfortunately, I believe that this only added insult to injury because I observed that the pinion nut was overtightened with an impact wrench. When I got the truck home I discovered the front differential was very hot and realized that no fluid was added because the fill plug appeared undisturbed (see before and after photos). A revisit to the dealership was necessary to “re-torque” the pinion nut and to add fluid to the differential. The service manager admitted that no fluid had been added at the first visit and was confident that not much was necessary. I have no idea how the pinion bearing preload could have been set correctly after all of this and why the pinion seal was leaking in the first place. Now the truck has an awful crunching noise when I put it into reverse and there is a constant vibration. There is also a “wum-wum” noise that can be heard at 10 mph.
TSB 22-2224 was performed at an earlier visit because the truck has a shudder when the throttle is tipped while under load. The tires were recommended to be replaced in order to help discern the problem more. Once replaced, the technician decided that there was no shudder. However, on the way home I realized that the occurrence of the shudder was still happening.
Nobody says anything about the leaking transfer case either. See photo.
So, there are multiple problems here which are causing me to revisit the repair center (three times now) and return home without much improvement. A person by the name of Drew from Ford Motor Compony, I thought had stepped in to intervene, encourages me to work directly with the service manager. The “truck team” hasn’t contacted me yet either.
There is something wrong with the drivetrain of this truck and I am not getting the assistance that I need. Should I go to another dealer and try this all over again?

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[FaaWrenchBndr]

So here’s the deal on the pinion nut. They not can be rundown with a impact. Once it is snug, the preload torque is taken. The nut as then tightened down until the pinion bearing preload torque is within the acceptable range.

I have no answers on the lack of lube. Was the statement that the service manager told you put in writing?

As far as the transfer case, that is not a leak, that is a weep. Nothing will be done until it forms a drip that is pretty much industry wide not just Ford.

 

[My 2ND Ford]

Lots of info to go thru here. Yes , I would try another dealer. Your fill plug has not been disturbed looking at your pictures. Was your pinion seal dripping? How do you know the pinion nut was over tightened? The wum-wum sound you hear is it on accel or decel and at what speed? The transfer case is a weep, nothing will be done about it. The crunching noise you mention, does it happen every time you engage reverse? When is the vibration happening? Lots of questions. Good luck.

 

[Johnny K]

So here’s the deal on the pinion nut. They not can be rundown with a impact. Once it is snug, the preload torque is taken. The nut as then tightened down until the pinion bearing preload torque is within the acceptable range.

I have no answers on the lack of lube. Was the statement that the service manager told you put in writing?

As far as the transfer case, that is not a leak, that is a weep. Nothing will be done until it forms a drip that is pretty much industry wide not just Ford.

From everything that I have read about replacing the pinion nut while in the vehicle, it is tightened by counting to the same number of turns as it was removed and then some slight amount more but not enough to further compress the crush sleeve. The preloading of the pinion bearings are checked by measuring the torque in inch-pounds that is necessary to rotate the unloaded pinion (w/o wheels, brakes, etc). I have never done it, so don’t know for sure how anyone can set it to a range and forget it. I do know that a senior mechanic yelled at the technician for using the impact wrench because I was there.
As for the fluid, the seal was leaking so some was required. Yet the photos prove that none was added despite not having the service manager’s notes. That’s another thing, getting people to document these blunders is not going to happen. I would gladly make the entry if I could. So, right here is my way of documenting the crap.

 

[Johnny K]

Lots of info to go thru here. Yes , I would try another dealer. Your fill plug has not been disturbed looking at your pictures. Was your pinion seal dripping? How do you know the pinion nut was over tightened? The wum-wum sound you hear is it on accel or decel and at what speed? The transfer case is a weep, nothing will be done about it. The crunching noise you mention, does it happen every time you engage reverse? When is the vibration happening? Lots of questions. Good luck.

Here’s some more questions:
Why does the front differential get so hot when it is only driven in “2H”?
What caused the pinion seal to leak?
Is the vibration a sign of something being destroyed?
Will this cause me to have an accident?
Can my wheels lock up?
Is the load elsewhere in the drivetrain causing my transmission to shudder?
Why haven’t they troubleshot this problem using every tool that they’ve got?
I would be checking temperatures with an IR thermometer.
I would run it on a lift in order to hear the noises.
I would not be dismissing the problem.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

From everything that I have read about replacing the pinion nut while in the vehicle, it is tightened by counting to the same number of turns as it was removed and then some slight amount more but not enough to further compress the crush sleeve. The preloading of the pinion bearings are checked by measuring the torque in inch-pounds that is necessary to rotate the unloaded pinion (w/o wheels, brakes, etc). I have never done it, so don’t know for sure how anyone can set it to a range and forget it. I do know that a senior mechanic yelled at the technician for using the impact wrench because I was there.
As for the fluid, the seal was leaking so some was required. Yet the photos prove that none was added despite not having the service manager’s notes. That’s another thing, getting people to document these blunders is not going to happen. I would gladly make the entry if I could. So, right here is my way of documenting the crap.

I’ve done differentials and gears before. Yes you put a torque wrench on your record, the free, turning torque of the gear set. When you reinstall the seal and the tighten it down and get back to the same preload.

The nut itself is a locking nut, I doubt they did it, but a new nut should be installed anytime is removed. it’s perfectly acceptable to run the nut down with an impact, you just don’t do the tightening with an impact
so what you should’ve done when you took the truck back was to make sure the service writer wrote your problem up as differential hot, and you should make them state that no fluid was added on the seal replacement.

You can also look at the service record, check to see if they listed adding fluid or not

when dealing with the service writers, you do not sign the paperwork when you pick up the truck until the narrative on the paperwork is correct and accurate. If you signed it with discrepancies at that point it’s too late.

 

[powerboatr]

Well
If it's a truck without IWE
Disconnect...you know the ones with the A setting on transfer case...hmm tye front diff turns when truck moves. No fluid???
It's ruined, bearings etc

 

[Fox146]

Would definitely go somewhere else. It’s obvious the diff wasn’t refilled and if they are yelling at each other in the shop…….

 

[My 2ND Ford]

Here’s some more questions:
Why does the front differential get so hot when it is only driven in “2H”?
What caused the pinion seal to leak?
Is the vibration a sign of something being destroyed?
Will this cause me to have an accident?
Can my wheels lock up?
Is the load elsewhere in the drivetrain causing my transmission to shudder?
Why haven’t they troubleshot this problem using every tool that they’ve got?
I would be checking temperatures with an IR thermometer.
I would run it on a lift in order to hear the noises.
I would not be dismissing the problem.

Seals fail, some go the life of a vehicle, some do not. It is not uncommon for a pinion seal to start weeping and eventually fail. A vibration is caused by out of balance. When you feel the vibration, is it present in the steering wheel or in the seat? Vibration in the seat usually points to problems in rear of the vehicle, and vice versa for the steering wheel. I don't know of any published data on differential temps. Yes they could run it on a lift, but sometimes you need pressure against the wheels to replicate a problem. Vibrations can sometimes be one of the worst problems to diagnose .

 

[Johnny K]

I’ve done differentials and gears before. Yes you put a torque wrench on your record, the free, turning torque of the gear set. When you reinstall the seal and the tighten it down and get back to the same preload.

The nut itself is a locking nut, I doubt they did it, but a new nut should be installed anytime is removed. it’s perfectly acceptable to run the nut down with an impact, you just don’t do the tightening with an impact
so what you should’ve done when you took the truck back was to make sure the service writer wrote your problem up as differential hot, and you should make them state that no fluid was added on the seal replacement.

You can also look at the service record, check to see if they listed adding fluid or not

when dealing with the service writers, you do not sign the paperwork when you pick up the truck until the narrative on the paperwork is correct and accurate. If you signed it with discrepancies at that point it’s too late.

Thanks, now that’s a lesson. I won’t be signing until it’s fixed.

Would definitely go somewhere else. It’s obvious the diff wasn’t refilled and if they are yelling at each other in the shop…….

Oh, there’s more that I heard.

 

[Johnny K]

Seals fail, some go the life of a vehicle, some do not. It is not uncommon for a pinion seal to start weeping and eventually fail. A vibration is caused by out of balance. When you feel the vibration, is it present in the steering wheel or in the seat? Vibration in the seat usually points to problems in rear of the vehicle, and vice versa for the steering wheel. I don't know of any published data on differential temps. Yes they could run it on a lift, but sometimes you need pressure against the wheels to replicate a problem. Vibrations can sometimes be one of the worst problems to diagnose .

No. Others are reporting the leaking pinion seals, so it’s not uncommon. Something is causing them to fail. Is it manufactured defects? Is it heat caused by lack of lubrication? Is it worn bearings? You see, the problem could snowball if it is dismissed as minor. It’s obviously not. Normal differential temps should be documented. If not, why not?

The shudder is definitely not uncommon, but I know that’s a separate issue that I don’t dismiss. The $1300 new tires are highway tires so no more tread noise from the wranglers to interfere with the diagnosis.

The vibration is in the steering wheel, the accelerator, and the seat. The “wum-wum” noise is at 10mph. The crunching noise happens first thing in the morning while backing out of the driveway. The shudder is on throttle tip while under load (10th and inclines). Oh… there’s nothing wrong? BS.

 

[SilverSpur]

I discovered the front pinion seal leaking and had the dealer replace it under warranty. (42,000 miles) Unfortunately, I believe that this only added insult to injury because I observed that the pinion nut was overtightened with an impact wrench. When I got the truck home I discovered the front differential was very hot and realized that no fluid was added because the fill plug appeared undisturbed (see before and after photos). A revisit to the dealership was necessary to “re-torque” the pinion nut and to add fluid to the differential. The service manager admitted that no fluid had been added at the first visit and was confident that not much was necessary. I have no idea how the pinion bearing preload could have been set correctly after all of this and why the pinion seal was leaking in the first place. Now the truck has an awful crunching noise when I put it into reverse and there is a constant vibration. There is also a “wum-wum” noise that can be heard at 10 mph.
TSB 22-2224 was performed at an earlier visit because the truck has a shudder when the throttle is tipped while under load. The tires were recommended to be replaced in order to help discern the problem more. Once replaced, the technician decided that there was no shudder. However, on the way home I realized that the occurrence of the shudder was still happening.
Nobody says anything about the leaking transfer case either. See photo.
So, there are multiple problems here which are causing me to revisit the repair center (three times now) and return home without much improvement. A person by the name of Drew from Ford Motor Compony, I thought had stepped in to intervene, encourages me to work directly with the service manager. The “truck team” hasn’t contacted me yet either.
There is something wrong with the drivetrain of this truck and I am not getting the assistance that I need. Should I go to another dealer and try this all over again?

Dealerships used to warranty their work for 36 months or 36,000 miles. I would have the dealership do all the work if covered.

 

[22Platinum]

Dealerships used to warranty their work for 36 months or 36,000 miles. I would have the dealership do all the work if covered.

It's 12 months/12k miles, but sadly it is unlikely that dealer is going to eat their mistake; most times that money comes out of the service manager's Christmas bonus and he can choose to keep it to himself.

Probably the best way to force the repair is to smoke the diff entirely such that the vehicle cannot be driven; while its no guarantee they'll fix it, it'll increase the odds and the diff is going to bomb eventually anyway.

If an oil change comes back on a tow truck later that day with a locked up motor the dealer will eat it; if it comes back 30 days later low on oil and clattering the dealer will point fingers and decline to help.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

That’s what I would suspect……

Thanks, now that’s a lesson. I won’t be signing until it’s fixed.

I learned the same thing the hard way when dealing with GM back in the early 2000s with a piece of shit S-10

 

[Johnny K]

It's 12 months/12k miles, but sadly it is unlikely that dealer is going to eat their mistake; most times that money comes out of the service manager's Christmas bonus and he can choose to keep it to himself.

Probably the best way to force the repair is to smoke the diff entirely such that the vehicle cannot be driven; while its no guarantee they'll fix it, it'll increase the odds and the diff is going to bomb eventually anyway.

If an oil change comes back on a tow truck later that day with a locked up motor the dealer will eat it; if it comes back 30 days later low on oil and clattering the dealer will point fingers and decline to help.

Well, I was sent a survey requesting my feedback. So there’s that.

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