Blue Cruise vs Lane Centering + ACC

[HammaMan]

My only defense of the today's price for the Pro VS the introductory price is that the it's now obvious that the $40k, BEFORE tax credits, was completely unrealistic.
Logic was telling me so, but I wanted it to be true.

If you look at what you get for EV dollars these days, the current price makes way more sense.

I bet the few, very few, very very few that DID get a Pro when the first batch of Lightnings were built/sold? They must be pinching themselves!

I know I would be.

Well to be fair, lithium prices did 10x during that period. They've since halved from their peak last I heard. A lightly optioned pro would have been nice blank slate to turn into a decent short-tripper. Neither the batteries nor the charging infrastructure are such that EV only is practical for now. A PHEV PB on the other hand -- I won't dwell on it further. That was a very dumb move killing it. Real dumb.

FWIW part searches is showing commonality w/ 2024s now so looks like not much to report on that front (ICE F150s anyway).

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[Snakebitten]

I didn't know they killed a plugin Powerboost because I didn't know they formally planned it.

But yea, anyone who has experienced the virtues of the current Powerboost, even with that teeny-tiny battery, can easily believe what just an average size Hybrid battery could do for it.

Like you, that's about the only thing that might get me out of my current Powerboost.
I'm 2 years into the Powerboost platform and I'm as enamored as I was day 1.

 

[HammaMan]

I didn't know they killed a plugin Powerboost because I didn't know they formally planned it.

But yea, anyone who has experienced the virtues of the current Powerboost, even with that teeny-tiny battery, can easily believe what just an average size Hybrid battery could do for it.

Like you, that's about the only thing that might get me out of my current Powerboost.
I'm 2 years into the Powerboost platform and I'm as enamored as I was day 1.

I believe munro mentioned it saying essentially once they saw lightning reservations it was immediately scrapped (after talking with farley). The sad part is that just 1 base lightning's battery cells would have made 5 PB PHEVs. That decision was made in 2021 before they really even had PB's out in the wild in any quantity. Honestly I believe that as of today, had they have used the same engine (3.5) combined with the Lincoln's motor, it would have been one of the hottest selling models if they actually didn't dick around with limited lower-trim build allocations and give more control, with better tuned modes allowing better regen braking (especially on towing) while using dual AC compressors for additional cooling like the lightning tow-package adds.. 500hp / 700tq actual power capability (though probably claimed less like the PB that's actually more powerful than the raptor)

 

[Spiffy]

It's amazing that the conversation or talk over the lightning is about pricing and features. At the end if the day it's not even a truck. Drive two hours charge one hour. Empty no towing!! If you need to haul a 2x4 just stick it out the window of a mme. Ford is losing money for a reason. Take a vehicle put 4 wheel drive and call it a truck? Resale on these in two years is gona really suck.
And you guys are concerned that they deleted mood lighting.

 

[HammaMan]

It's amazing that the conversation or talk over the lightning is about pricing and features. At the end if the day it's not even a truck. Drive two hours charge one hour. Empty no towing!! If you need to haul a 2x4 just stick it out the window of a mme. Ford is losing money for a reason. Take a vehicle put 4 wheel drive and call it a truck? Resale on these in two years is gona really suck.
And you guys are concerned that they deleted mood lighting.

Resale for everything is going to keep getting worse. Food alone has increased 50% in 2 years.

I could rock a lightning converted to what it's always been, an on-road street truck. Even 'lowered' it's still got better ground clearance than most crossovers. It's heavy but it's at least balanced w/ the batt and rear motor there.

 

[imnuts]

It's amazing that the conversation or talk over the lightning is about pricing and features. At the end if the day it's not even a truck. Drive two hours charge one hour. Empty no towing!! If you need to haul a 2x4 just stick it out the window of a mme. Ford is losing money for a reason. Take a vehicle put 4 wheel drive and call it a truck? Resale on these in two years is gona really suck.
And you guys are concerned that they deleted mood lighting.

Where have you heard that it only runs 2 hours before a charge? That would be roughly 150 miles. Maybe in 0F weather with a headwind, but that isn't really realistic for most road trips. Maybe if you're towing that is realistic, but not normal driving.

My coworker has a Lightning, and when he has taken it on road trips, it is roughly 4 hours of driving and 45 min of charging. His experience thus far has been that payload has very little impact on range if it is in the bed, but cold temperatures kill the range. Not as good as ICE vehicles, but on long road trips, I'm looking to get out of any vehicle after 4-5 hours and walk around a little.

 

[Spiffy]

Where have you heard that it only runs 2 hours before a charge? That would be roughly 150 miles. Maybe in 0F weather with a headwind, but that isn't really realistic for most road trips. Maybe if you're towing that is realistic, but not normal driving.

My coworker has a Lightning, and when he has taken it on road trips, it is roughly 4 hours of driving and 45 min of charging. His experience thus far has been that payload has very little impact on range if it is in the bed, but cold temperatures kill the range. Not as good as ICE vehicles, but on long road trips, I'm looking to get out of any vehicle after 4-5 hours and walk around a little.

My point I'm trying to make and this discussion is verifying it that ford is cutting options and drastically increasing prices for a vehicle that is really not a capable truck. It doesn't have 7200w pro power. Can't tow anything more than 150 miles. Put max weight in box and see what range you get.
Ford underestimated the market for this truck so the cost per production is higher.
I seriously looked into buying one but I pull a fishing boat. I go to Canada alot. 200 miles average and 45 to 70 min charging per 200 miles. I watched way more negative videos on you tube than positive ones.
I get only so much time off and I don't feel like spending 5 hours each way walking around waiting for my truck to charge is efficient. Besides electric vehicles are no more environmentally friendly than ice.
I then calculated the residual value after 80k miles. I thought I my figures were wrong but my dealer gave me the residual value if I were to lease it.
My power boost per mile costs less to own over 3 years.
Then to compound the end of life value.... technology in battery and motor efficiency is improving quickly. There is new batteries coming out that are going to shame the current crop. How am I going to sell my truck against the then current higher capacity vehicles.
Then there is ford really screwing the pooch. The decisions they have made recently. They have shown they no longer care about what the customer wants.

 

[imnuts]

I didn't realize that Ford was advertising and marketing the Lightnings to long haul towing users, I must have missed that commercial. The only adds I've seen have been home improvement type stuff, and never with a travel trailer. I also don't know where Ford or anyone else says that EVs are for everyone.

The bottom end Lightning would be a perfect commercial truck IMO having worked for a utility. Most trucks were outfitted with aftermarket inverters at 2-3 kW max, and would have tons of idle time and few long trips. They sit for hours then without being used after hours. Also, what is Ford supposed to do, just keep selling the trucks for a significant loss?

 

[HammaMan]

I didn't realize that Ford was advertising and marketing the Lightnings to long haul towing users, I must have missed that commercial. The only adds I've seen have been home improvement type stuff, and never with a travel trailer. I also don't know where Ford or anyone else says that EVs are for everyone.

The bottom end Lightning would be a perfect commercial truck IMO having worked for a utility. Most trucks were outfitted with aftermarket inverters at 2-3 kW max, and would have tons of idle time and few long trips. They sit for hours then without being used after hours. Also, what is Ford supposed to do, just keep selling the trucks for a significant loss?

Well they, at least early on, did lots of PR stuff around towing from skidsteers to campers. They were pretty misleading on that aspect.

 

[Snakebitten]

In all fairness, there's a fair amount of folks that tow within the limits of what a Lightning extended range would be able to manage.
Utility trailers
Boats/RV's heading to close by weekend getaways.

But I realize too that it's vogue to diss the Lightning when you have a fantastic alternative truck.

Regardless, I would LOVE one of those first released $4X,000 Pros to drive the wheels off of for a few years while my Luxury Yacht KingRanch Powerboost was only handling what the Pro couldn't.

 

[Nasto]

It's worth the next to no effort.

I received both the recommend clip and weight and mirrored your setup from the pictures you uploaded. Took it for a test run today and it does work flawlessly! Used a major city surface street with minimal lights and a constant 35 MPH zone. The steel clip makes it easy to remove when needed. Thanks again!

 

[Spiffy]

I guess I'm biased. I wasn't looking at it for the uses you need. I'm in service industry and need to travel around the state daily. I can't afford to sit around. I was surprised at the range estimate when used for normal truck stuff like pulling small trailers, fully loading bed, traveling around state. I live in Iowa and there is very little charging options in rural areas and the ones there are are low capacity. A 300 mile round trip would require a charge. A charge that my time won't be compensated for.
I got my sour nerve when ford increased prices so much and reduced options at same time.
My dealer here was offering a lightning at 1k under sticker but sticker was 7k higher than last year. And the same dealer had the same truck at 6k over sticker last fall. Ford allowed dealers to attempt to rip off customers. If I hadn't found this pb for 20k under sticker with only 4k miles I wouldn't have bought it. Iv been a ford fan for 45 years but this last year they changed.
One of the companies I contract from just bough 12 f150's each truck runs 11k per year. They couldn't justify the cost, charging time, depreciation.
I apologize for not considering your intended use. I was only looking at them for my needs. And your right I have never seen a lightning commercial with a trailer attached. Only youtube videos where they compare trip times against ice trucks. If you don't need it for work truck or you live in a area where your not competing for chargers then I bet it's a fun vehicle.

 

[HammaMan]

I guess I'm biased. I wasn't looking at it for the uses you need. I'm in service industry and need to travel around the state daily. I can't afford to sit around. I was surprised at the range estimate when used for normal truck stuff like pulling small trailers, fully loading bed, traveling around state. I live in Iowa and there is very little charging options in rural areas and the ones there are are low capacity. A 300 mile round trip would require a charge. A charge that my time won't be compensated for.
I got my sour nerve when ford increased prices so much and reduced options at same time.
My dealer here was offering a lightning at 1k under sticker but sticker was 7k higher than last year. And the same dealer had the same truck at 6k over sticker last fall. Ford allowed dealers to attempt to rip off customers. If I hadn't found this pb for 20k under sticker with only 4k miles I wouldn't have bought it. Iv been a ford fan for 45 years but this last year they changed.
One of the companies I contract from just bough 12 f150's each truck runs 11k per year. They couldn't justify the cost, charging time, depreciation.
I apologize for not considering your intended use. I was only looking at them for my needs. And your right I have never seen a lightning commercial with a trailer attached. Only youtube videos where they compare trip times against ice trucks. If you don't need it for work truck or you live in a area where your not competing for chargers then I bet it's a fun vehicle.

I have a MME and its rated range might happen below 60mph w/ low-drag wheels and tiny tires, which for the most part all look like crap. Want to use the heat, buh-bye range.

The cold isn't as much of a factor as most make it. Just being plugged in keeps everything at temp. DCFC certainly brings the heat. If the batt is cool, you must nav to the charger so the car can pre-warm the batt (more energy) so that it can get a good charge rate. The lightning w/ tow package has the advantage of twin AC units to keep the pack cool during heavy charging or demand (more energy). It's far from sunshine and rainbows, but a smart operator can make the most of it (there goes 95% of the population). Tesla did it right w/ their thermal management system (ford should have borrowed that patent, that thing is a work of art and does everything you want / need it to). Their heat pump also blows away the resistance heating most EVs have.

But, that's the thing. Tesla isn't a massive bloated corporation with inefficiency at every turn. Ford like other large OEMs is a massive ship with a tiny rudder. They just can't get out of their own way fast enough, let alone adapt. I don't like teslas -- they're ugly dated catfish cars. Tesla however, is arguably the best thing to happen to the automotive industry since ford started mass production of low-cost vehicles 100 years ago. They're forcing a global re-think of how cars are built. The downside is that they're quickly becoming a juggernaut and not everyone will survive what's left in their wake. They're making money like mad on their vehicles while everyone else is taking a big L. That's forcing the industry to pivot or die. I really dislike their whole less is more thing. Interiors are bland, buttons scarce. If the screen goes out, kiss damn near everything you can control in the car goodbye. You get lights and blinkers.

 

[oneinch]

...it does work flawlessly!

Now you have hands-free a little more on your terms than Ford's. Lane centering is really the defacto decider. If lane centering will work you should be able to do so hands-free. Be safe and enjoy.

 

[Spiffy]

I have a MME and its rated range might happen below 60mph w/ low-drag wheels and tiny tires, which for the most part all look like crap. Want to use the heat, buh-bye range.

The cold isn't as much of a factor as most make it. Just being plugged in keeps everything at temp. DCFC certainly brings the heat. If the batt is cool, you must nav to the charger so the car can pre-warm the batt (more energy) so that it can get a good charge rate. The lightning w/ tow package has the advantage of twin AC units to keep the pack cool during heavy charging or demand (more energy). It's far from sunshine and rainbows, but a smart operator can make the most of it (there goes 95% of the population). Tesla did it right w/ their thermal management system (ford should have borrowed that patent, that thing is a work of art and does everything you want / need it to). Their heat pump also blows away the resistance heating most EVs have.

But, that's the thing. Tesla isn't a massive bloated corporation with inefficiency at every turn. Ford like other large OEMs is a massive ship with a tiny rudder. They just can't get out of their own way fast enough, let alone adapt. I don't like teslas -- they're ugly dated catfish cars. Tesla however, is arguably the best thing to happen to the automotive industry since ford started mass production of low-cost vehicles 100 years ago. They're forcing a global re-think of how cars are built. The downside is that they're quickly becoming a juggernaut and not everyone will survive what's left in their wake. They're making money like mad on their vehicles while everyone else is taking a big L. That's forcing the industry to pivot or die. I really dislike their whole less is more thing. Interiors are bland, buttons scarce. If the screen goes out, kiss damn near everything you can control in the car goodbye. You get lights and blinkers.

That was well said. Yes Tesla is steering the industry now. Ford, dodge, Chevrolet is forced to produce something to try to compete. I personally don't think the time or infrastructure is capable of sustainable electric work horse vehicles. That's fords bread and butter.. I think politics and Teslas advancements in EV is forcing the other manufacturers hand way before their ready. It going to be years before anyone has a ev that has range and towing capabilities equal to gas.
Travel trailers, boats, flat beds towing heavy equipment, utility trailers, fishing boats, on and on. Mail delivery like amazom, usps, ups have the money and logistics to swap out a truck at noon or plan routes that work into the batteries life. Public transportation too.
Plain truth is gas engines are not going away anytime soon but now these manufacturers have to bring to market an alternative vehicle that won't come close to providing the working part of our economy.
Ford said they plan to drop ice in the next 4 years. I really don't want to own stock in the first manufacturer that shuts down gas engines.
I think the future is bright for hybrids.
Even Tesla hasn't promised that they are going to be a replacement for the plumbers pickup.
They are having fun screwing with everyone else. Any bets on the first major manufacturer to fold or sell to Tesla?

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