Blue Cruise Active During Deadly Crash in Texas

[BRDVPRA]

Ford’s hands-free BlueCruise system was active before fatal Texas crash | TechCrunch

This is such an unfortunate accident. I don’t see how the technology can be blamed for this one… a dead car, with no lights in the center of the freeway? I have always wondered what the vehicle would do at speed approaching a stationary object. I know it is a late braker when it comes to approaching cars at a stop light and can get intense quick. I’m guessing it applied the brakes way to late to make a difference. I can't imagine coming up on a car like that in the middle of the freeway.

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[rjinaz]

Here is something very key to the investigation...
"The NTSB said another driver missed the Honda moments before the Mustang crashed into it."
I suspect that BlueCruise was tracking the vehicle that swerved away from the CR-V.
Once that vehicle moved to another lane, BlueCruise couldn't detect and stop the Mach-e before impacting the stationary car. Even the collision avoidance system is not very effective at highway speeds, and that system relies on a camera along with the radar sensor.
Black highway at night with a vehicle with no lights on. It never saw it I bet.
I wonder if it would have avoided the CR-V if the driver had his hazards on?

 

[fatBatman]

https://www.ksat.com/video/local-ne...-san-antonio-involving-a-semi-autonomous-car/

Here is the local news video without audio. At 1:09 it shows the damage to the Mach-E and for hitting a stationary object on the road, it faired much better than I'd have expected.
I have been on that part of I-10 in San Antonio before and it does have highway lights. At that exit is a T/A Travel Center and a Flying J (truck stops) with those places having a lot of lights but it's still pretty dim because the highway is below and behind the wall (see pic) despite being a full moon that night (February 24). Also in the video, it shows the Honda was either black or a dark color. Driving highway speeds at night, I think it would be difficult for most people to avoid a black/dark car in the center lane without any lights.
Still, this is a very tragic accident but I do not see any fault with Blue Cruise. I do see that almost every news article that I've found so far talks about the automation. One report also mentioned the toxicology report for the driver of the Mach-E (clean) but nothing about the driver of the Honda.

 

[Vin]

I have driven over 100k miles with GM's Gen 1 Super Cruise. It functions similarly to Blue Cruise. I can confirm that it IS NOT proficient enough to take evasive maneuvers due to an object (car) that rapidly appears in front of the vehicle. If the robot was following a car and that car then took evasive maneuvers because of an unlit car in the middle of a lane, the only chance would have been for the driver to swerve as the car in front of it did. On Gen 1 GMs, the robot DOES NOT swerve around things. It only tries to stop for them in my experience. If the obstruction appears suddenly, then the brakes don't stand a chance at highway speeds. Hence the requirement for the driver to be "ready to take over".

These systems are game changers for road warriors, but do not "drive" for you. They simply help you drive. Once I reconciled that arrangement with the robot, it became no different than my feelings about old school dumb cruise control: If you rely on it too much, it can drive you into an accident and kill you.

 

[wessermgm]

I just think this speculation is a touch disingenuous. Yes, the Mach-e hit the stationary car without its lights on. However, as a personal injury litigator myself, you put that same situation out there for the motoring public, I would suspect that 60-70% of the time some person would also crash into that vehicle until a vehicle with emergency lights can block it off (maybe not you, but the guy behind you - just like the Mach-e).

We highlight any crash where automation is involved and angst over it, but forget that there are waaay more bad drivers on the road than Blue Cruise or Autopilot.

 

[wessermgm]

I have driven over 100k miles with GM's Gen 1 Super Cruise. It functions similarly to Blue Cruise. I can confirm that it IS NOT proficient enough to take evasive maneuvers due to an object (car) that rapidly appears in front of the vehicle. If the robot was following a car and that car then took evasive maneuvers because of an unlit car in the middle of a lane, the only chance would have been for the driver to swerve as the car in front of it did. On Gen 1 GMs, the robot DOES NOT swerve around things. It only tries to stop for them in my experience. If the obstruction appears suddenly, then the brakes don't stand a chance at highway speeds. Hence the requirement for the driver to be "ready to take over".

These systems are game changers for road warriors, but do not "drive" for you. They simply help you drive. Once I reconciled that arrangement with the robot, it became no different than my feelings about old school dumb cruise control: If you rely on it too much, it can drive you into an accident and kill you.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[FORDTEXAS]

using any sort of autonomous driving during night time is playing with your life lol

 

[powerboatr]

Yupppp
I agree the Mach e Probably saw the car swerve snd didn't have time to re enge the lane as it was still tracking the swerve of sorts
How many targets can Collison avoidance track at same time?

I can speak from daytime experience . The Collins avoidance. Has swerved and slowed to avoid rear end from a person choosing to STOP now at 65 with no indications except omg brakes


I know that area of San Antonio as well and it's hairy even in daylight
All that concrete blends and fools the eyes.
Radar should not be fooled, but the camera might be???

 

[zacko11288]

Here is something very key to the investigation...
"The NTSB said another driver missed the Honda moments before the Mustang crashed into it."
I suspect that BlueCruise was tracking the vehicle that swerved away from the CR-V.
Once that vehicle moved to another lane, BlueCruise couldn't detect and stop the Mach-e before impacting the stationary car. Even the collision avoidance system is not very effective at highway speeds, and that system relies on a camera along with the radar sensor.
Black highway at night with a vehicle with no lights on. It never saw it I bet.
I wonder if it would have avoided the CR-V if the driver had his hazards on?

This is a great catch, in traffic investigations this is commonly referred to as a "sudden reveal" and I'd wager most people in this forum have encountered a similar situation where the vehicle in front of you rapidly swerves out of the way and you have limited time to react to a stopped vehicle.

 

[HammaMan]

This is the 2nd incident in a month w/ a MME using bluecruise taking out another vehicle. Both times the MME driver walked away unharmed. Thing is a tank (all 5klbs). This incident happened at night and the guy was on the MME forum asking if his car was totaled (showing pics, said insurance couldn't get to it as it was in impound w/out mentioning the accident, we put it together). The incident that just happened was in daylight, similar issue 2 or 3 vehicles stopped in travel lanes, 2 people killed. The highway was winding with visibility blocking barriers. Wasn't said if it was a 'reveal' incident or not. News just wants headlines, not full facts.

Countless vids on YT of vehicles stopped in travel lanes getting demolished. People need to stop stopping in travel lanes, let alone in the dark with the vehicle blacked out.

 

[Calson]

The driver of the car stopped in the road had done so when the vehicle just stopped and the driver was unable to get it restarted and move it out of the way. This is a problem with the software code in the Ford car. Tesla cars have had similar problems and in San Francisco operated by Cruise and Waymo. Cars would stop in the middle of the road and block traffic, including emergency vehicles.

Do a search on self driving cars and San Francisco and you will quickly realize that the technology is still in its infancy and not ready for use in the real world. Even the military which want self-driving vehicles and has competitions to pick a winner has found time and again that even in the simple world for their testing the vehicles fail to complete the course.

 

[HammaMan]

The driver of the car stopped in the road had done so when the vehicle just stopped and the driver was unable to get it restarted and move it out of the way. This is a problem with the software code in the Ford car. Tesla cars have had similar problems and in San Francisco operated by Cruise and Waymo. Cars would stop in the middle of the road and block traffic, including emergency vehicles.

Do a search on self driving cars and San Francisco and you will quickly realize that the technology is still in its infancy and not ready for use in the real world. Even the military which want self-driving vehicles and has competitions to pick a winner has found time and again that even in the simple world for their testing the vehicles fail to complete the course.

Vehicles on the interstate don't magically come to a halt. The vehicle that was hit was an ICE honda CRV, not an ADAS operating vehicle.

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

@HammaMan Weren't we just talking about the exorbitant price of renewing a Blue Cruise subscription, and that Ford needs this money to insure themselves against lawsuits and potential litigation?

 

[HammaMan]

@HammaMan Weren't we just talking about the exorbitant price of renewing a Blue Cruise subscription, and that Ford needs this money to insure themselves against lawsuits and potential litigation?

No, not for level 2 ADAS. YOU are in full control. This is why everyone but Merc is hiding inside of the L2 adas capability. Mercedes has a L3 system but its requirements of where it's L3 vs L2 is hilarious. Below 40mph in interstate traffic and only in 2 states.

 

[Big Dog Daddy]

No, not for level 2 ADAS. YOU are in full control. This is why everyone but Merc is hiding inside of the L2 adas capability. Mercedes has a L3 system but its requirements of where it's L3 vs L2 is hilarious. Below 40mph in interstate traffic and only in 2 states.

Certainly, but I can see it on TV already. The judge will tell the mother and her two daughters in the court room, I'm sorry for the loss of your husband, but he should have understood that the vehicle was only equipped with level 2 adas and it would never be able to stop. With this I find that Ford cannot be held at fault for the accident.
I just don't see it happening this way.

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