F150 EV vs ICE "Fuel" cost

[Elevatorman]

I just filled up my f150 with 75 dollars of gas (27 gallons at 2.79) in 3 minutes and dash says 720 miles to empty, which is about 100 miles low by my current mpg should be 810.

Wife showed me a post on FB the other day of a guy left his house with a fully charged electric f150 towing his center console boat, was dead in 50 ish miles. Never said if he made it to the water or not.

I have been suprised I've been seeing a fair amount of these electric f150s on the road. Im interested in seeing what the resale value will be on the used ones

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[Elevatorman]

Not too mention nothings more manly than telling your wife you can't take her home because yall gotta go spend an hour sitting in a parking lot while you charge your truck.

In Maryland Montgomery County just banned all gas leaf flowers. Its not even fall yet and all the landscapers are raising heck with the gov wanting a 3 month windiw has can be used since battery's not cutting it even before the real work of fall gets here. I think battery powered cars are cool and all for very limited folks who never travel far from home. But I dont see battery ever replacing gas. With currebt technology it simply doesn't have the power to do what needs done for the amount of work needing done. Im sure that guy loved his f150 towing his boat until he was dead. There's a difference between liberal governments forcing its citizens to buy electric cars and the technology actually being a real "replacement"

 

[24Carbon150]

I just filled up my f150 with 75 dollars of gas (27 gallons at 2.79) in 3 minutes and dash says 720 miles to empty, which is about 100 miles low by my current mpg should be 810.

Wife showed me a post on FB the other day of a guy left his house with a fully charged electric f150 towing his center console boat, was dead in 50 ish miles. Never said if he made it to the water or not.

I have been suprised I've been seeing a fair amount of these electric f150s on the road. Im interested in seeing what the resale value will be on the used ones

They did a test here in Colorado using two identical 21ft campers, one truck was a Chevy 1500 with the 6.2 and the other was a Lightning. Both trucks were full of fuel and charge , the plan was to tow the campers to Pueblo COlorado from Boulder and then recharge the lightning and top off the Chevy To compare operating costs. They ended up limping into Castle rock Colorado with reduced power…the lightning only made it 58 miles. That’s just ridiculous.

 

[XLT22]

I've found quite a few EV owners really don't understand how to use fast chargers. What I mean by that is you're not meant to sit there and charge an almost dead battery to full. EVs really don't work economically unless you have home charging. Even on road trips you really should only stay at the fast charger to get what you need to go to your next stop or destination with some buffer you're comfortable with. Those charging networks charge crazy idle fees to "encourage" people to not sit there and hog them.

To give you an idea our electric rates where I live on the east coast are 4.2 cents off peak with an EV plan and 8.7 cents on peak. Either way the savings are massive over a gasoline powered truck. Fast charging is only meant to be a rare thing on long trips. You can very easily come in under 5 cents per mile cost in a Lightning if you live somewhere with lower electric rates.

 

[XLT22]

Not too mention nothings more manly than telling your wife you can't take her home because yall gotta go spend an hour sitting in a parking lot while you charge your truck.

In Maryland Montgomery County just banned all gas leaf flowers. Its not even fall yet and all the landscapers are raising heck with the gov wanting a 3 month windiw has can be used since battery's not cutting it even before the real work of fall gets here. I think battery powered cars are cool and all for very limited folks who never travel far from home. But I dont see battery ever replacing gas. With currebt technology it simply doesn't have the power to do what needs done for the amount of work needing done. Im sure that guy loved his f150 towing his boat until he was dead. There's a difference between liberal governments forcing its citizens to buy electric cars and the technology actually being a real "replacement"

That kind of scenario makes my point really about people not understanding how to use an EV. It's a totally different mindset than a gas car because you can always "fill up" at your destination.

If you don't believe battery electric vehicles will eventually replace most gas/diesel vehicles the rest of the developed world is quickly proving that to be false. China has cracked the code on longer distance EV travel and they're nearly the same size as the US. I get it change can be scary but at the same time we (America) can't let ourselves be left behind. Yes of course not every use case is perfect but that's not the point. Pure combustion vehicles are on the way out and we'll all be better for it. Same logic as replacing coal and fuel oil electric generation with natural gas and nuclear + other renewables. It isn't a liberal or conservative position to use the government to compel businesses and individuals into certain behavior. When there's a need to get the nation moving in a certain direction that happens no matter which party is in power.

I would not be surprised in the slightest if you can buy a gasoline or diesel fueled heavy duty truck 20 years from now. It'll just have a battery and electric motors to fill in the gaps of the combustion engine to let it run at max efficiency at all times.

 

[fxo]

The right answer is when the Battery EV is far better, which in a lot of ways it already is. But the achilles heel is charging and batteries. If it charges pretty fast, well 5-15 minutes would be tolerable, not 60-90 minutes, and great solid state lithium which is evolving toward production right now, getting people not 100 or 200 miles of range but a rock solid 300 - 400 miles of range. Which you don't need every day, but sometimes. Then it will win out.

The average usage of a vehicle per day is probably in the 40-60 mile range. Not a lot.


Better economics and convenience always wins. The battery and charging infrastructure is getting better. Maybe in 5 years it won't be an issue. Nobody can tell just yet. We are not close enough or insiders in Quantumscape, PowerCo, or the EV engineering halls of VW, Rivian, or Tesla. But certainly the big global, automotive OEM's are sold, they are betting billions on it. Ford, who is not a first row leader in this race, is going in again, pretty deep. They feel they will lose big otherwise.

That tells you something.

 

[24Carbon150]

It’s all about the cost of electricity, and as we know the prices are going up in a lot of places and if they don’t increase capacity and at a better price unless it’s a short commuter they’ll never be widely adopted at least in trucks.

 

[moritzes]

(Very) rough math for our 2025 Mustang Mach-E Premium Extended Range AWD, just to throw a little more data out there:
Local cost of electricity: $ 0.171 / kWh (home charging)
"Tank" size (i.e., battery storage): 88 kWh
So, cost to fill battery from 0% to 100%: $15.05

Average energy consumption of Mach-E: 2.5 to 3.5 miles / kWh.
Using 3.0 miles / kWh = 264 mile range on a full battery. (That's a low estimate for this time of year, but winter will average it out. EPA estimate is 300 mile range, fwiw.)

So, 264 miles for $15.05. Local cost of gas: $3.20 (about the national average). Gallons purchased for $15.05 = 4.72 gal.

264 miles / 4.72 gals. = 55.9 "mpg"* That's a little better than my daughter gets in her Prius.

But the Prius doesn't go 0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds

(Which still doesn't mean that a Lightning can out-tow my Powerboost, but that day will come.)

*(Note: this is not MPGe, i.e. the number of miles an electric car can go on the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas (33.76 kWh). MPGe doesn't take into account the relative cost of gas and electricity in any particular location. MPGe for the Mach-E is 104.)

 

[Davidwnuc]

As EV usage goes up, states will get less money from gas tax. States will change their strategy and then electricity or EV usage will get a tax hike. Same goes for the fed. Its already started but not something I ever hear about in the news. Plus the added cost of buying the EV plus depreciation. It doesnt make sense for everyone at this point. Maybe one day.

 

[Aonarch]

(Very) rough math for our 2025 Mustang Mach-E Premium Extended Range AWD, just to throw a little more data out there:
Local cost of electricity: $ 0.171 / kWh (home charging)
"Tank" size (i.e., battery storage): 88 kWh
So, cost to fill battery from 0% to 100%: $15.05

Average energy consumption of Mach-E: 2.5 to 3.5 miles / kWh.
Using 3.0 miles / kWh = 264 mile range on a full battery. (That's a low estimate for this time of year, but winter will average it out. EPA estimate is 300 mile range, fwiw.)

So, 264 miles for $15.05. Local cost of gas: $3.20 (about the national average). Gallons purchased for $15.05 = 4.72 gal.

264 miles / 4.72 gals. = 55.9 "mpg"* That's a little better than my daughter gets in her Prius.

But the Prius doesn't go 0-60 mph in 4.2 seconds

(Which still doesn't mean that a Lightning can out-tow my Powerboost, but that day will come.)

*(Note: this is not MPGe, i.e. the number of miles an electric car can go on the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas (33.76 kWh). MPGe doesn't take into account the relative cost of gas and electricity in any particular location. MPGe for the Mach-E is 104.)

The way you calculated it is exactly how I do.

Mpge is the dumbest measurement. I get the government was trying to come up with an easy comparis to ICE MPG, but it doesn't make sense.

It is worth noting that some EVs, like Teslas are now hitting over 5 miles per kwh. That's pretty damn good.

My last EV did 2.5 miles per kwh and it was obviously much more expensive to run at a public charger than gas.

 

[Xman]

Its amazing how many dreamers (people) think solar power, wind power, and EVs are the future. There aren't enough rare earth metals on our planet to accomplish that dream. When the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine, there is no power. It was coal that got Texas out of the winter storm that darkened the state a couple of years ago (BTW, coal plants are now clean). The current wind power is an ecological disaster as the turbine blades are not recyclable, so they just bury them at end of life. Do you see how many wind turbines are inop when you drive cross-country. Wind has to be 20+ mph to generate sufficient power and they have to lock the turbines when wind is 50+mph. Oh, one hail storm can take-out a solar farm. Recycling is still an issue for EVs. And those that think EV will displace long-haul 18-wheeler trucking are real dreamers. To convert our truck fleet to EV would require a 40% increase in electrical power output. Our nation's electrical grid can't even grow fast enough to accommodate the current needs sans more EVs. Boston's goal of only EVs is a joke that will not happen in our life-time. Everything has its place. Diversification is goodness. EVs have their nich. Where they are king like Amazon deliveries they rule, but not everywhere. I hope EV technology will continue to improve. BTW, where I'm spending the next three months in Wyoming, an EV just doesn't cut it, unless there is an F150 PB nearby.

Pass out the pop-corn, please!

 

[fxo]

I spoke to a Geologist that owns a company in South America for extraction of minerals, he said the earth is loaded with all the lithium it needs. Then there are synthetics. This is not the issue.

Just for a numbers illustration:
There is about 100-150 million metric tons of lithium on the planet. The world needs about 12 million metric tons of lithium to produce enough batteries for 1.5 billion cars. Lithium can also be recycled.

The solid state lithium revolution by companies like Quantumscape and PowerCo(a subsidiary of VW), is coming, of course scaling this tech takes immense precision, so don't hold your breath on that part. But as good as the rich man wants a 3 second to 100km machine so will PowerCo and Quantumscape deliver what's needed. It's not the only mineral of course. But these things are pretty much solved on paper anyway.

The only prescient issues are battery tech and of course charging infra (time and proximity).

Don't listen to the Heritage Foundation, I am sure it is sponsored by Exxon and similar. They have seen Norway, they are pissed, being relegated to just plastics is a shitty business model.

 

[Xman]

time will tell

 

[tomcaudell]

I wish I lived in a State that didn’t promote EV and have electric costs at 39 cents off peak to 61 cents 4pm to 9 pm when I would usually be charging. It is cheaper to drive my 5.0 at 20 mpg with infinite range. “2 minutes to refuel every 300 miles” I am not against EV just not the fit for me. Trips I take from Carson city to Vegas would take too long.

 

[moritzes]

I wish I lived in a State that didn’t promote EV and have electric costs at 39 cents off peak to 61 cents 4pm to 9 pm when I would usually be charging. It is cheaper to drive my 5.0 at 20 mpg with infinite range. “2 minutes to refuel every 300 miles” I am not against EV just not the fit for me. Trips I take from Carson city to Vegas would take too long.

TL;DR - adding solar power might make it worth it financially, but might get you into trouble with your spouse

California and Hawaii electric rates are definitely too high to make electric cheaper than an ICE.

But, back of the envelope math, it could still make sense:
Would need to add some solar to the house, which would probably work nicely in CA and HI--maybe 3kW worth of panels (installed for about $6000 dollars on 150-200 sq. ft. of roof). If you drove 12,000 miles/year @ 20 MPG, and gas is $4, that's $2400 of gas cost per year. With an efficient electric car you use maybe 3,000 kWh per year to drive 12,000 miles (more kWh for a Lightning, though). Say 250 days of good sun in Pine Grove. You would need 12 kWh of charging each of those 250 days, or about 4 hours of sun hitting those 3 kW panels. Pays for itself in 2.5 years? And if you're getting more power than you need, which you would (because you would average more than 4 hours of good sun/day, and you get some sun on those 115 extra "non-sunny" days we didn't count), you might be able to sell it back to the grid and make some cash to use to pay for electricity when you're not generating.

This would not work as well in NE Ohio, where I live. We average only 164 sunny days a year, well below the national average. But even here we average 3.75 hours of sun/day over the course of the year, so with a slightly bigger installation... (but don't tell my wife you're going to hang solar panels all over her house).

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