How to improve PB cooling???

[Polo08816]

Just remember that while will generally run cooler, lower thermostat does nothing to improve cooling capacity. Meaning anybody getting into prolonged 220f and up temps has a cooling capacity issue that a different temp thermostat cannot solve.

Understood. It generally does not change how quickly the heat exchangers can shed heat out of the system - only how "soon" they will begin to do so.

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[Gros Ventre]

The amount of heat rejected by a cooler is proportional to
1 - the temperature differential between ambient and the high input temperature; 2 - the amount of surface area of the cooler and the heat transfer capability of the cooler metals; and 3 - the flow of fluids through the cooler. You can't change #2 unless you put in a new radiator. Lowering the thermostat rating actually reduces heat transfer cpcbility. If ambient temperature rises the heat transfer rate lowers or the high temperature has to rise. So what can you control most easilty? The airflow through the cooler. Don't forget that when engine boost puts significant heat into its cooler, that heat raises the the inlet temperature into the engine radiator.

 

[SRMD]

I tow a 5000 lb trailer at 75 MPH and haven't had any cooling issues at all. Sounds to me like something is malfunctioning in one of the cooling subsystems.

I took my loaded truck and TT to Cat Scales today, Gross Combine weight was 12500, which is not terrible. Trailering today at ambient temp of 75F, at 65mph, in 7th gear on a slight hill/grade about 1/2 mile long, my trans got to 221F and engine was at 219. I was maybe 4 lbs of boost, when I looked at the gauge.

I can’t imagine what is going to happen when I am pulling 6-7% grades in the mountains for 5 miles. Something just doesn’t seem right. I am not even close to stressing this truck.

 

[SRMD]

I took my loaded truck and TT to Cat Scales today, Gross Combine weight was 12500, which is not terrible. Trailering today at ambient temp of 75F, at 65mph, in 7th gear on a slight hill/grade about 1/2 mile long, my trans got to 221F and engine was at 219. I was maybe 4 lbs of boost, when I looked at the gauge.

I can’t imagine what is going to happen when I am pulling 6-7% grades in the mountains for 5 miles. Something just doesn’t seem right. I am not even close to stressing this truck.

Also, this was at sea level 200-300ft elevation.

 

[HammaMan]

I took my loaded truck and TT to Cat Scales today, Gross Combine weight was 12500, which is not terrible. Trailering today at ambient temp of 75F, at 65mph, in 7th gear on a slight hill/grade about 1/2 mile long, my trans got to 221F and engine was at 219. I was maybe 4 lbs of boost, when I looked at the gauge.

I can’t imagine what is going to happen when I am pulling 6-7% grades in the mountains for 5 miles. Something just doesn’t seem right. I am not even close to stressing this truck.

Trans temp will never be less than water temp under such conditions. I was running around in 57 degree weather beating on the truck and water and trans temps were within a few degrees of each at 195-205 degrees.

This isn't a new issue with F150s or in any way unique to the PB. The PB has a little bit more heat to deal with when using the e-motor, but nowhere near enough to generate these heat levels. De-rate happens at 275 degrees on the trans. Using a trans fluid that can take higher temps is no excuse to marginally design the cooling to allow such to happen. Previous gen the trans heat exchanger could be removed and a front-mount rad with lines installed BUT removing the heating capabilities - 200 degree trans temp is perfect. The engine has longer life operating at 200 degrees than it does at 180 as well.

Not sure how you're driving the truck, but don't be confused in regards to the importance of water flow rate (a function of RPM) in the equation. These have plenty of power down low, but you're only going to get more heat doing that, than downshifting. If you're logging data or just in a position to watch it, make a pass through the same area in 7th, the do it in 5th and see what happens. Monitor as many variables as you can. Best if you can log it for further review, be sure to include RPM or gear selection for analyzing, fuel rates, etc..

7th gear is too low of a gear generating heat (220 degrees isn't bad though for what you were doing). Depending on the load and slope 4th or 5th are going to produce better results. Were you in tow/haul?

 

[SRMD]

Trans temp will never be less than water temp under such conditions. I was running around in 57 degree weather beating on the truck and water and trans temps were within a few degrees of each at 195-205 degrees.

This isn't a new issue with F150s or in any way unique to the PB. The PB has a little bit more heat to deal with when using the e-motor, but nowhere near enough to generate these heat levels. De-rate happens at 275 degrees on the trans. Using a trans fluid that can take higher temps is no excuse to marginally design the cooling to allow such to happen. Previous gen the trans heat exchanger could be removed and a front-mount rad with lines installed BUT removing the heating capabilities - 200 degree trans temp is perfect. The engine has longer life operating at 200 degrees than it does at 180 as well.

Not sure how you're driving the truck, but don't be confused in regards to the importance of water flow rate (a function of RPM) in the equation. These have plenty of power down low, but you're only going to get more heat doing that, than downshifting. If you're logging data or just in a position to watch it, make a pass through the same area in 7th, the do it in 5th and see what happens. Monitor as many variables as you can. Best if you can log it for further review, be sure to include RPM or gear selection for analyzing, fuel rates, etc..

7th gear is too low of a gear generating heat (220 degrees isn't bad though for what you were doing). Depending on the load and slope 4th or 5th are going to produce better results. Were you in tow/haul?

Yes, I was in Tow/haul. From my perspective, I was hoping not to have to have the engine at 4-5K RPMs while towing. That’s the whole reason NOT to get a 5.0. It is too loud towing, which is tiring over long distances.

Realistically, I wanted to 7.2kw power for my TT, but I did not realize the cooling system was so marginal. I towed the same trailer with my Toyota Sequoia and did not have these cooling issues. Quite disappointed right now and I haven’t even work this truck hard yet. I am a bit concerned about the longevity of the drivetrain under these conditions when the temps (trans and coolant) get to 230-240, which they appear they will once I hit the steeps. Otherwise, I love the truck, but now I am nervous….

 

[HammaMan]

Yes, I was in Tow/haul. From my perspective, I was hoping not to have to have the engine at 4-5K RPMs while towing. That’s the whole reason NOT to get a 5.0. It is too loud towing, which is tiring over long distances.

Realistically, I wanted to 7.2kw power for my TT, but I did not realize the cooling system was so marginal. I towed the same trailer with my Toyota Sequoia and did not have these cooling issues. Quite disappointed right now and I haven’t even work this truck hard yet. I am a bit concerned about the longevity of the drivetrain under these conditions when the temps (trans and coolant) get to 230-240, which they appear they will once I hit the steeps. Otherwise, I love the truck, but now I am nervous….

Assuming you have stock tire size (33"), in 7th at 65 you're turning 2500 RPM. If you're not happy with that temp which is okay / working as intended, turn more RPM. I wish I had a calculator that could tell you when such grade / speed / drag are present, your temps at xxxx RPM with x gear present xxx temp.

Not sure the logic of the truck to determine downshift is required for temp purposes, but as far as it was concerned at that point, everything was working as designed, only you took issue with it. Use such activities to collect more data. I don't like the trans temp behavior like that regardless of the 'new' fluid formulation being more heat tolerant, that type of heat is not your friend.

Lots of good info in this thread starting here...
https://www.f150forum.com/f82/3-5-ecoboost-running-hot-when-towing-421028/index5/#post6701923

 

[Snakebitten]

Guys towing with the 3.5 Ecoboost over the last decade will tell you that for that long steep grade you just have to pretend you are in a manual transmission truck and take over.

Run RPM's to reduce boost and increase waterpump volume. The motor isn't unhappy about spinning some RPM's.
Transmission temps of 205-215 is what Ford wants it to be at. So 225 isn't something to fear.

It's true that shedding heat is the Achilles Heel of the mighty Ecoboost pulling a parachute up a long 6 at 65+ mph. But it's manageable. Many have been doing it for more than a decade.

 

[JExpedition07]

You need RPM, lugging up on boost at low rpm is harder on the engine and generates a lot more heat that can’t be dissipated. Your 3.5 won’t be too loud at 3,500-4,000. Ford purposely makes the 5.0 have the aggressive intake growl in the cab with the straight through muffler and intake manifold design. It’s designed with the intent for you to hear it. The 3.5 has a lot tighter muffler with extra baffling and offsets with a big foam noise suppresser on top of the motor. It’s designed so you don’t hear it.

 

[HammaMan]

After 3 hours and hundreds of posts reads, even more skipped dating back to 2016, the magic bullet to 3.5s and cooling is just a cool $800 away

https://goturbo.net/mismmrad-f150-1...0-performance-aluminum-radiator-mmrad-f150-15

I did also dug more into the rad misting for this issue specifically and it's substantially more effective than you'd imagine. At 7kft water boils at 198 degrees. I was reading posts all the way back to 2008 for all classes of heavy vehicles and light vehicles. Even a pikes peak race car that put one of those 2 gallon hand pump garden sprays on it with fine mist nozzles. Fell into a bit of a rabbit hole on the topic, tried not to but I was learning just as much with ai search so it was worth it.

I just don't like the trans temp ford runs with anyway. The raptor has an aux trans rad in addition to the standard trans mounted one. The powerboost's extra cooling loop appears to be using it for its HV component cooling loop, but there's room for plenty more below it

 

[Snakebitten]

I prefer the Full Race Radiator over the Mish, but both are superior to the Ford OEM tow radiator. (2 members with Mish sprung a leak at where the weld is on the end tanks. Support from Mish was good though)

However, I didn't know if the Full Race radiator fit the Gen14 or not. I hadn't looked lately.

A work of art, like much of what they fabricate.

 

[HammaMan]

that filler cap may not work, haven't looked into more.

 

[Snakebitten]

It's for the 2017-2020
https://www.full-race.com/catalog/p...t-freakoboost-radiator-upgrade/category/1367/

They don't yet have one for 2021-2023.
They do have the Intercooler now though

 

[Polo08816]

After 3 hours and hundreds of posts reads, even more skipped dating back to 2016, the magic bullet to 3.5s and cooling is just a cool $800 away

https://goturbo.net/mismmrad-f150-1...0-performance-aluminum-radiator-mmrad-f150-15

I did also dug more into the rad misting for this issue specifically and it's substantially more effective than you'd imagine. At 7kft water boils at 198 degrees. I was reading posts all the way back to 2008 for all classes of heavy vehicles and light vehicles. Even a pikes peak race car that put one of those 2 gallon hand pump garden sprays on it with fine mist nozzles. Fell into a bit of a rabbit hole on the topic, tried not to but I was learning just as much with ai search so it was worth it.

I just don't like the trans temp ford runs with anyway. The raptor has an aux trans rad in addition to the standard trans mounted one. The powerboost's extra cooling loop appears to be using it for its HV component cooling loop, but there's room for plenty more below it

I prefer the Full Race Radiator over the Mish, but both are superior to the Ford OEM tow radiator. (2 members with Mish sprung a leak at where the weld is on the end tanks. Support from Mish was good though)

However, I didn't know if the Full Race radiator fit the Gen14 or not. I hadn't looked lately.

A work of art, like much of what they fabricate.

I'd probably consider something like this after the warranty period. The 180F thermostat is much more discreet.

 

[HammaMan]

I'd probably consider something like this after the warranty period. The 180F thermostat is much more discreet.

This makes very little sense. If you're needing more cooling, addressing the issue after you've let the heat run its course and the warranty is up doesn't jive. That's like switching to a quality oil after running cheap stuff halfway through ownership.

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