Turbo boost oscillations while towing

[fordguy1997]

Hello all,



I have a 2022 F150 Lariat with the 3.5 Eco-boost non-hybrid. It is equipped with the max tow package (14k lb.). I have the exact problem; turbo boost flutter/oscillations at cruise towing my 6500# travel trailer (65-70mph, 1800-1700 RPM, 9th gear, 5-10psi boost). I also notice that the engine speed fluctuates 100 RPM when the boost is fluctuating. This definitely concerns me; maybe the torque convertor is unlocking and locking along with the boost being blown off then snapped back up quickly and constantly. I have taken it to two different dealerships to have the problem diagnosed and resolved. The first dealership said "so sorry, no trouble codes, not a problem, have a nice day". The second dealership used the TSB 23-2353 to flash a new calibration in the PCM. They did a road test and said they found that the RH wastegate would not stay steady at WOT. They replaced the wastegate and thought all it good.



I picked up the truck, went home, connected up the trailer and took it for a test drive. I noticed that the truck seems to have more power; quicker boost ramps up, high boost pressure than before. That was fantastic, the only problem is that when I tow at a level 65MPH cruise the boost flutters continually (7-9psi) and the RPM moves from 1700-1800 RPM. Before the PCM flash I could move the accelerator a little bit and the flutter would go away. This is more concerning than ever as this is the exact target speed I pull at. I went back to the dealership and spoke with the service advisor and told him what was happening. He told me that there is nothing else that they can do as there are no trouble codes present and no TSB’s in the system to fix the problem. He said that I would have to take it to another Ford dealer to get a second opinion before Ford Service Division would send out an engineer. I thanked him for his time for the other issues with the vehicle that were addressed and resolved. One of these was a failing AGM battery. They replaced it, finally; I was getting a constant reminder on the Ford app that the truck was going into deep sleep mode because the battery was low.



I called the Ford Customer service hotline today. I explained the problem to them accurately and succinctly. I told her that I am a retired Ford Motor Company engineer with powertrain calibration experience. and that I believe that this is a powertrain calibration issue I agree with Gros Ventre above. The lady told me that I would have to take it to another dealership and get a second opinion/diagnosis. She said that if I can get the dealership tech to verify the issue with data and there is no fix available, they would send out a field service engineer to the dealership to work with the tech. She said that at that time I could pursue getting my truck swapped out for a new one. I told her that I custom ordered my truck, I love everything about it and that I want to get this problem resolved. I would imagine her eyes were rolling at this point :O|



The problem now with that it is winter here in Canton, Michigan. I don't drive my truck in the winter (nasty, salty roads). I also don't pull my travel trailer in the winter. I so wish that Ford could and would take the truck to Dearborn, put it on a dyno and verify the problem. I'm going to have to convince another Ford dealership to have one of their techs rides with me while towing my trailer with the IDS connected recording all the pertinent data. The dealership techs don't want to do that because they are not guaranteed to get paid because there are no codes in the computer.



The good news is I have some time, my truck is still under the 3yrs 36K mile bumper to bumper warranty. The truck has 35,500 miles on it now. The time is up at the end of April 21st, 2025. I am not currently driving it (put away for the winter). I usually put the truck back on the road in May.



I plan to go in person to another Ford dealer in the area and explain my problem to see if they will work with me to get the powertrain data and get Ford Service Engineering involved. I'll let you all know how it is going. With some perseverance and a little luck, I hope to get Ford to verify the concern, develop and release a new calibration to resolve this issue. I can only imagine how many millions of customers with F150's with the 3.5 Eco-boost engine towing trailers are having this same problem. I could only imagine how many turbochargers, turbocharger wastegate actuators, boost blow off valves and transmission torque convertors and being adversely affected.



One would think that Ford Motor Company would want to get this turbo boost oscillation/flutter problem identified and resolved ASAP. Think of the warranty costs! I wonder if this is still an issue with the new 2025 F150's currently being built and sold? From the information that I have seen in internet posts, this issue has been happing with past generations of F150 tucks with 3.5L Eco-boost engine.

I am having essentially the same problem with mine! Only difference is that I don’t need to be pulling a trailer.

I went to the dealer and they told me the same thing they told you - “there’s no codes so there’s nothing we can do.”

Please let me know what you find out! I’d love to get this fixed.

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[pbensen]

What year is the truck? How many miles do you have in it?

I don’t drive my truck or pull my trailer in the winter

I’m planning on taking it to the dealer in April. I’ve spoken to the Service Msnager. He has agreed to have data taken while I’m pulling my trailer. At that point I’m thinking that they will put in a request to Ford to have a service engineer to get involved with the diagnostics.

There was someone in this thread that mentioned octane. It would be interesting to see if using high octane fuel would correct the problem. It would make sense, if the knock sensors detected an issue it could cause this to happen. Taking and analyzing the data would go along way to determining the issue.

You might want to talk to the service manager about this. The service manager at the dealership I’m working with said that he will have the tech set up the IDS to take the data. He would then have the shop Forman, who is paid on a salary ride along with me to take the data while I’m towing the trailer.

Good luck.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

Hello all,



I have a 2022 F150 Lariat with the 3.5 Eco-boost non-hybrid. It is equipped with the max tow package (14k lb.). I have the exact problem; turbo boost flutter/oscillations at cruise towing my 6500# travel trailer (65-70mph, 1800-1700 RPM, 9th gear, 5-10psi boost). I also notice that the engine speed fluctuates 100 RPM when the boost is fluctuating. This definitely concerns me; maybe the torque convertor is unlocking and locking along with the boost being blown off then snapped back up quickly and constantly. I have taken it to two different dealerships to have the problem diagnosed and resolved. The first dealership said "so sorry, no trouble codes, not a problem, have a nice day". The second dealership used the TSB 23-2353 to flash a new calibration in the PCM. They did a road test and said they found that the RH wastegate would not stay steady at WOT. They replaced the wastegate and thought all it good.



I picked up the truck, went home, connected up the trailer and took it for a test drive. I noticed that the truck seems to have more power; quicker boost ramps up, high boost pressure than before. That was fantastic, the only problem is that when I tow at a level 65MPH cruise the boost flutters continually (7-9psi) and the RPM moves from 1700-1800 RPM. Before the PCM flash I could move the accelerator a little bit and the flutter would go away. This is more concerning than ever as this is the exact target speed I pull at. I went back to the dealership and spoke with the service advisor and told him what was happening. He told me that there is nothing else that they can do as there are no trouble codes present and no TSB’s in the system to fix the problem. He said that I would have to take it to another Ford dealer to get a second opinion before Ford Service Division would send out an engineer. I thanked him for his time for the other issues with the vehicle that were addressed and resolved. One of these was a failing AGM battery. They replaced it, finally; I was getting a constant reminder on the Ford app that the truck was going into deep sleep mode because the battery was low.



I called the Ford Customer service hotline today. I explained the problem to them accurately and succinctly. I told her that I am a retired Ford Motor Company engineer with powertrain calibration experience. and that I believe that this is a powertrain calibration issue I agree with Gros Ventre above. The lady told me that I would have to take it to another dealership and get a second opinion/diagnosis. She said that if I can get the dealership tech to verify the issue with data and there is no fix available, they would send out a field service engineer to the dealership to work with the tech. She said that at that time I could pursue getting my truck swapped out for a new one. I told her that I custom ordered my truck, I love everything about it and that I want to get this problem resolved. I would imagine her eyes were rolling at this point :O|



The problem now with that it is winter here in Canton, Michigan. I don't drive my truck in the winter (nasty, salty roads). I also don't pull my travel trailer in the winter. I so wish that Ford could and would take the truck to Dearborn, put it on a dyno and verify the problem. I'm going to have to convince another Ford dealership to have one of their techs rides with me while towing my trailer with the IDS connected recording all the pertinent data. The dealership techs don't want to do that because they are not guaranteed to get paid because there are no codes in the computer.



The good news is I have some time, my truck is still under the 3yrs 36K mile bumper to bumper warranty. The truck has 35,500 miles on it now. The time is up at the end of April 21st, 2025. I am not currently driving it (put away for the winter). I usually put the truck back on the road in May.



I plan to go in person to another Ford dealer in the area and explain my problem to see if they will work with me to get the powertrain data and get Ford Service Engineering involved. I'll let you all know how it is going. With some perseverance and a little luck, I hope to get Ford to verify the concern, develop and release a new calibration to resolve this issue. I can only imagine how many millions of customers with F150's with the 3.5 Eco-boost engine towing trailers are having this same problem. I could only imagine how many turbochargers, turbocharger wastegate actuators, boost blow off valves and transmission torque convertors and being adversely affected.



One would think that Ford Motor Company would want to get this turbo boost oscillation/flutter problem identified and resolved ASAP. Think of the warranty costs! I wonder if this is still an issue with the new 2025 F150's currently being built and sold? From the information that I have seen in internet posts, this issue has been happing with past generations of F150 tucks with 3.5L Eco-boost engine.

Drop down the gears. You shouldn’t be towing 5k in overdrive anyway. That’s probably the transmission shifting in and out of overdrive. You’re gonna fry your transmission.

 

[fordguy1997]

What year is the truck? How many miles do you have in it?

I don’t drive my truck or pull my trailer in the winter

I’m planning on taking it to the dealer in April. I’ve spoken to the Service Msnager. He has agreed to have data taken while I’m pulling my trailer. At that point I’m thinking that they will put in a request to Ford to have a service engineer to get involved with the diagnostics.

There was someone in this thread that mentioned octane. It would be interesting to see if using high octane fuel would correct the problem. It would make sense, if the knock sensors detected an issue it could cause this to happen. Taking and analyzing the data would go along way to determining the issue.

You might want to talk to the service manager about this. The service manager at the dealership I’m working with said that he will have the tech set up the IDS to take the data. He would then have the shop Forman, who is paid on a salary ride along with me to take the data while I’m towing the trailer.

Good luck.

It is a 2022 with roughly 55,000 miles. So I’m getting a little worried as it about to run out of warranty soon.

I have tried to run 93 in the truck for a couple tanks of fuel and it did help but didn’t completely get rid of it!

I will bring it back to the dealer and let them know what you said. I appreciate you getting back to me on this!
Hopefully we can both get this resolved!

 

[pbensen]

Drop down the gears. You shouldn’t be towing 5k in overdrive anyway. That’s probably the transmission shifting in and out of overdrive. You’re gonna fry your transmission.

I am towing in tow hall mode. The trans mission is in 9th gear and on a flat road when it happens. This is how Ford programmed the system to work. The engine RPM is changing because the torque converter is being commanded to unlock. I believe this is being commanded. The transmission is running at normal temperature.

 

[taperk600]

Every one of my 3.5 EcoBoosts (11, 13, 16, 19 & 22 PB) have done this turbo oscillation thing.... Mostly while towing my snowmobile trailers. Never concerned me much as I took it as the truck searching between needing boost and not ... kind of an in between area of the programming. As others have said, drop a gear, give it a bit more gas, etc -- and it goes away. Never had any indications it was transmission related, but can see where others may. Just my experience....
Haven't noticed it on the 2.7s .... previous 2020 or current 2023. But don't normally tow with that truck other than our 3000 diesel compressor.

 

[FaaWrenchBndr]

I am towing in tow hall mode. The trans mission is in 9th gear and on a flat road when it happens. This is how Ford programmed the system to work. The engine RPM is changing because the torque converter is being commanded to unlock. I believe this is being commanded. The transmission is running at normal temperature.

I know all about that all I’m saying is you drop it down one more year and that will go away.

I wouldn’t tow without 9 &10 locked out.
You don’t want overdrive engaged when towing

 

[2.7EcoBoost]

My truck is a regular 3.5 EB and it does it. I don't need to be towing, but I'm sure it will be worse when I pull my camper because it only happens now under load going up hills. I am completely baffled by the amount of people who are so loyal to Ford that their answer to this issue is to ignore it, accept it, drive different etc.... LOL. If your transmission shifts terrible Ford will say "it's an adaptive transmission, it's learning how you drive". But a guy towing a trailer is supposed to turn his 10 speed auto into a manual because Ford can't make software smart enough to know the turbo is releasing boost off/on/off/on/off/on? And people are like "yeah, I just don't worry about it".

Mine is in the shop for this very thing and I get a pretty sweet noise with mine, like birds chirping in the engine bay. I'll just tell my Chevy and Ram buddies that the noise is part of the built Ford Proud experience!? People are paying $500-$1,000/mo for these trucks. Ford needs to fix them. I have rode in other 3.5's that I never heard the "blow off noise" or whatever, so why do some do it? I will fight this tooth and nail for a new truck if they can't resolve it. I absolutely love my truck otherwise, but this issue should not be swept under the rug. Too big of an investment for me to take that approach.

 

[2.7EcoBoost]

I got my truck back. Not repaired. The dealer said they worked with Ford hotline and they can absolutely verify my complaint and monitor pids and that basically the relief valve is releasing boost pressure and it's getting "trapped between the CAC and relief valve/intake".

I gave them detailed info on the parameters that makes the noise happen and per Ford they road tested a similarly equipped new truck and they can make it make the noise also. Ford advised them to make no further repairs as this is considered a "Normal Characteristic of the truck". In Ford Motor Company speak that means they have no idea why/how to fix this at the moment. I feel it's a software glitch and the dealer also concluded the same. But the service manager explained to me, people having this issue need to make sure the dealer can verify it so it gets reported to Ford so that a repair is made. I went and took the lead tech on a road test to show him the exact parameters the truck needed to be in to make the noise. Otherwise, dealers simply blow it off as a "no problem found" and it goes nowhere.

In the coming months, probably around July or August, I plan to go up one tire size and I am going to add the Pulsar XT performance module. It plugs into the MAP, Boost sensor and Throttle pedal sensor and basically tricks the PCM into reading a different value thus increasing boost, eliminating throttle lag etc. I believe it will change this noise, or at least the parameters because of the different MAP and Boost readings and if nothing else hopefully make the parameters somewhere else and I don't notice them or have them in my daily driving. I planned on trying the Pulsar anyhow as it has other benefits, but it could possibly fix Ford's incompetence. If it's not resolved by FoMoCo at that point, I'll let you all know if it did fix/change the issue.
BTW, my truck will do this in 7th, 8th and mostly in 9th gear. It is not related to the torque converter strategy IMHO. It's all related to the relief valve strategy and FORD got it WRONG!!

@pbensen has his service manager working with Ford also, so that's at least 2 of us so Ford is aware of it. The squeaky wheel gets oiled boys. Give them heck!!

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