Powerboost 12v battery charging tip

[HammaMan]

Keep your HVAC blower on setting 5 or higher to avoid having the truck consume your 12v batt during normal operation. (yes this is a real thing)

#fordLogic

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[oneinch]

Huh, never made the connection. - Bob and Tom, The Mr Obvious Show.

For good measure I just place my truck on a trickle charger occasionally. The Optima 400 is the charger of choice for me. I place a yellow towel on my door handle to remind myself to unplug the charger before driving.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

Keep your HVAC blower on setting 5 or higher to avoid having the truck consume your 12v batt during normal operation. (yes this is a real thing)

#fordLogic

This is interesting…I have a ‘21. 33k miles on it now and never had a single instance of deep sleep or battery issues and haven’t paid any attention to the 12V. I drive it often when I’m home, but I haven’t had issues when I take work trips leaving Monday morning and returning Friday night.

For the record with the topic of this thread - I keep my hvac on auto exclusively

 

[marekjk]

Keep your HVAC blower on setting 5 or higher to avoid having the truck consume your 12v batt during normal operation. (yes this is a real thing)

#fordLogic

Since your post last week I have been keeping track of this every time I drive. I’ve also tested it out here and there by changing the settings. I have to report……. You are 100% correct.

My mind is blown.

Why on earth would they do this?

 

[TSGarp007]

I'm so confused by the 12V charging/usage in this truck. So you are saying the truck uses the 12V battery to power the blower fan if it is below a setting of 5, and this is true even with the ICE off? If you are idling (when the ICE is on), does the truck charge the 12V battery? Does the hybrid battery ever charge the 12V battery?

 

[marekjk]

These are a few things that I have noticed since keeping an eye on all of this over the last 6 days.

The vehicle is taxing the 12v system if the blower is below a setting of 5 regardless of whether ICE is on or if the vehicle is running off of the hybrid pack.

I have noticed that there are some instances where the 12v is charging with the blower below a setting of 5, but it will only charge for short bursts and not consistently (while drawing energy in between bursts). If the 12v system has a low charge, it will charge regardless of the blower setting, again, just not consistently.

When the blower is at 5 or above, it consistently charges the 12v. Even if it is a trickle charge at a couple of amps, it consistently charges (when it considers the 12v system to be at “100%” it will trickle charge).

In my experience, the 12v system will still charge with the ICE off or if ICE is idling, again, consistently when the blower is set to 5 or higher.

 

[truck trader]

I’m still scratching my head. What does the blower setting have to do with charging the 12V battery? It just doesn’t make sense to me. I’m sure there is a reason and you guys are correct - I just can’t comprehend why the blower speed has anything to do with charging.

 

[Snakebitten]

I haven't yet done the suggested experiment, but I think what might be confusing is not knowing how the 12V battery(ies) are charged.

Yes, it IS the energy in the Hybrid battery that is providing current for the 12V system in the truck. It provides both the current that is being consumed by the 12V components, as well as the current necessary to "charge" the 12V battery. But there are pids that indicate how much current (amps) is being supplied as battery charging current, and you will witness that once the 12V battery reaches a certain SOC the charging current is disturbingly moderate. Sometimes none at all.

This all takes place whether the ICE is running or not, since there isn't a traditional belt driven alternator. The Hybrid battery along with the DC/DC converter (~285V converted to ~12-14V) is the digital version of an alternator.

I think what HammaMan and marejkj are saying is that for some reason the Battery Management software is programmed to provide increased 12V battery charging current if the HVAC blower is set high enough?

 

[HammaMan]

Ford's BMS logic is poo. The only way I've yet found to override it and to have 12v generation be on with the key is to have the fob inside of the vehicle with the blower set at 5 or higher (doors must be closed too). Outside of those parameters, your truck may be using the 12v batts as the source for 12v energy with the vehicle running. No, there's no justifiable situation where the vehicle's condition is key on engine on (that's a state, doesn't mean actual ICE is running) and 12v generation is off. This is however how ford does it. This is how someone can daily drive their vehicle and still have modules entering low-power mode not even 12hrs after parking it.

I think it's crazy that someone could remote start their vehicle, drive it 2 miles down the road, and by the time the truck goes back to sleep, it's got less power in the 12v batts than when they hit the remote start in the first place. I happened to stumble upon these variables after playing with the LFP as an aux batt, watching all variables closely. It was pretty easy to spot however watching the LFP's BMS when it goes from -26a to +50a simply changing the fan speed. I was investigating why 12v generation wasn't running when the truck was.

I've been unable to ascertain as to what the current transformer on the aux batt is good for, so far I've found nothing to indicate it has any bearing in regards to the 12v bus's SOC. The BMS only monitor's the under hood batt in regards to the 12v system's SOC.

 

[Davexxxx]

The blower speed being involved in this has to be some sort of mistake. Not saying your observations aren't real, just that if real, it has to be some sort of glitch.

Whatever weird charging parameters they've set, thats one thing. Requiring specifics for charging other than key on, makes no sense and the blower motor set to 5, is just out there.

Don't think I can get do it today but I'll run what tests I can do tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Davexxxx]

The blower speed being involved in this has to be some sort of mistake. Not saying your observations aren't real, just that if real, it has to be some sort of glitch.

Whatever weird charging parameters they've set, thats one thing. Requiring specifics for charging other than key on, makes no sense and the blower motor set to 5, is just out there.

Don't think I can get do it today but I'll run what tests I can do tonight or tomorrow.

Managed to knock some of it out earlier than I expected.

I can't explain why but my results have a more normal result re charging and blower but only measuring volts at this time.

Truck was undisturbed for ~18 hrs. Last driven, several days ago.

6:15 a.m. Popped the hood.
Engine batt = 12.12V per digital multimeter.
Key on, fob in truck, AC off, ICE off, lights off.
14.45V
AC on, fan speed 1, ICE came on with AC.
14.46V
Fan speed 2 = 14.46
Fan speed 3 = 14.44
FS 4 = 14.43
FS 5 = 14.43
FS 6 = 14.42
FS 7 = 14.41
FS 7 plus both seats max cool = 14.41
ICE off, AC auto, FS 3, seats off = 14.44
Key off, fob out of truck = 12.64
6:34 a.m.

 

[UGADawg96]

I almost never have the fan speed above 3 or 4 in manual mode. The only time it is higher than 4 is when in MAX cool mode when getting it when it's been parked and hot for hours. But that's for just a couple mins. But then again, I don't do 2 mile trips. It it almost 2 miles just to get out of my neighborhood.

 

[Snakebitten]

Managed to knock some of it out earlier than I expected.

I can't explain why but my results have a more normal result re charging and blower but only measuring volts at this time.

Truck was undisturbed for ~18 hrs. Last driven, several days ago.

6:15 a.m. Popped the hood.
Engine batt = 12.12V per digital multimeter.
Key on, fob in truck, AC off, ICE off, lights off.
14.45V
AC on, fan speed 1, ICE came on with AC.
14.46V
Fan speed 2 = 14.46
Fan speed 3 = 14.44
FS 4 = 14.43
FS 5 = 14.43
FS 6 = 14.42
FS 7 = 14.41
FS 7 plus both seats max cool = 14.41
ICE off, AC auto, FS 3, seats off = 14.44
Key off, fob out of truck = 12.64
6:34 a.m.

My concern for monitoring voltage only is the assumption that if "charging voltage" (14.X) is present, that the 12V battery is receiving "charging current" in sufficient quantity. (amps)

But we can't possibly know that if we can't monitor/measure how many amps is being charged or discharged from the 12V battery. Fortunately Ford places that measuring device right AT the AGM negative post. So if the PIDs can be believed, and I think they can be because the AGM SOC, as well as it's static Voltage when the truck is off, definitely reflects the result that mirrors the paltry charging current the PID reports.

I believe HammaMan is stating that for whatever strange reason, he stumbled upon a situation where the charging current (amps) that is actually being put INTO the AGM is increased above normal.

And yea, there is no shunt on the auxiliary battery for measuring/monitoring/managing the current in/out. That poor thing is just along for the ride and is assumed to be ready to do its job until it just doesn't.

 

[turbopilot]

Yes, it IS the energy in the Hybrid battery that is providing current for the 12V system in the truck. It provides both the current that is being consumed by the 12V components, as well as the current necessary to "charge" the 12V battery.

Thanks for your explanation of how the PB system works. Is there a detailed technical discussion of the electrical system anywhere? It seems to be a real black box.

Looking through the electrical diagrams in the PB Modifiers Guide there appears to be a belt driven starter/generator located on the engine. So is there another source of electricity in the PB other than the hybrid battery?

 

[discothan]

Huh, never made the connection. - Bob and Tom, The Mr Obvious Show.

For good measure I just place my truck on a trickle charger occasionally. The Optima 400 is the charger of choice for me. I place a yellow towel on my door handle to remind myself to unplug the charger before driving.

Towel on the door handle....back in college.......

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