12V Battery

[Natetroknot]

What octane non distilled water is best for an AGM lol Jesus Christ who cares

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[Samson16]

Molarity or molality. That is the question. ?

 

[Samson16]

This guy uses whatever works. Saw it yesterday.

 

[Samson16]

That might be a blue gen14 on the other side of the RCLB.

 

[Natetroknot]

This thread presents an opportunity

I’ve just bought a new Wally World battery and she’s on the NOKO trickle charging prior to install. I’ve never had an issue with the OEM FoMoCo, no SSN msgs, and I don’t like to live dangerously. So this is overkill.

That said…..

Am I gonna hafta plug in da laptop after I swap batteries and do a BMS reset to keep my truck from honking at me when I drift with the keys in my pocket to stop the honk? Or is that change gonna be stored after the swap?

Thanks! Sorry to be cocky! It’s Friday and I got my buzz on!

 

[Gros Ventre]

I did the goading. For example I found the absorbed glass mat used in the Motorcraft AGM changes the lead to acid ratio ever so slightly and thus rendering Gros Ventres’ calculations moot. ?

Yet you remain wrong. The Pb-PbO2-H2SO4 chemistry is what it is. Lead to acid ratio doesn't change the electrochemistry. The voltage produced is not dependent upon ratios of constituents, its is set by the basic chemical components electropotentials. Your rendition of various setpoints that are in use doesn't change the chemistry. Those setpoints are there to maintain a charge, that's different than a no load terminal voltage. At those setpoints there is a charge going into the battery dependent on temperature thus the voltage is higher than the no load terminal voltage. This is simple electrical engineering. Your speaking of the ratios being changed is seductive to those that do not understand the chemistry (like you seem not to) but in the end it remains wrong.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm a bit envious now.
You, @Samson16, are seductive
Me? I'm just ignorant ?

 

[Natetroknot]

Who wants to hear a dick and fart joke!

 

[Samson16]

Yet you remain wrong. The Pb-PbO2-H2SO4 chemistry is what it is. Lead to acid ratio doesn't change the electrochemistry. The voltage produced is not dependent upon ratios of constituents, its is set by the basic chemical components electropotentials. Your rendition of various setpoints that are in use doesn't change the chemistry. Those setpoints are there to maintain a charge, that's different than a no load terminal voltage. At those setpoints there is a charge going into the battery dependent on temperature thus the voltage is higher than the no load terminal voltage. This is simple electrical engineering. Your speaking of the ratios being changed is seductive to those that do not understand the chemistry (like you seem not to) but in the end it remains wrong.

I love you brother. I just made the whole glass mat ratio thing up. I’m poking the bear and having a little fun with it. I apologize.

 

[JoeRedFly]

Slightly more on topic:
I only drive a quick 10 miles per day which holds the SOC around 50% and have started having TCU issues that may be related to low voltage.
My lazy solution is to periodically leave the truck running in the driveway to charge the 12v. The charge voltage / current remain fine without ac running so the engine ICE runs very little. After 20 mins or so when it's over 75% SOC I shut it down.

RF

 

[Gros Ventre]

Slightly more on topic:
I only drive a quick 10 miles per day which holds the SOC around 50% and have started having TCU issues that may be related to low voltage.
My lazy solution is to periodically leave the truck running in the driveway to charge the 12v. The charge voltage / current remain fine without ac running so the engine ICE runs very little. After 20 mins or so when it's over 75% SOC I shut it down.

RF

What I see on my voltmeter is that on starting the system voltage goes up proportional to temperature and then drops to around 12.9 VDC. That is a normal pattern for lead acid batteries. So long as your rides are at least 15 minutes I suspect the recharge is complete. The fundamental chemistry of Pb-PbSO4- H2SO4 produces a nominal 2.2VDC per cell. Changing the ratio of the internal componets may alter capacity but it cannot alter the voltage produced. The state of charge can be determined from the Specific Gravity of the H2SO4. Unless its winter and you're facing sub-freezing temps and extended cranking, the discharge on starting the engine is not that great. Don't be confused by the system float voltage after start, it is designed to keep a steady, but small, charge into the battery. Last winter I had a two month period, in sub-zero weather, where I was driving for maybe 2-3 miles twice a day. I had no problem with the battery keeping a full charge.

 

[Gros Ventre]

There have been various explanations for float voltages or the setpoint of the PowerBoost system for recharging. Some of them sound good. But in the end the battery responds only to the chemistry involved.
Here are the two reaction going on inside the battery.
Negative plate reaction:
Pb(s) + HSO−4(aq) → PbSO4(s) + H+(aq) + 2e−
Positive plate reaction:
PbO2(s) + HSO−4(aq) + 3H+(aq) + 2e− → PbSO4(s) + 2H2O(l)
It's worth noting that nowhere does the ratio of chemical constituents enter into the equation. Nor do various contruction techniques such as the Glass Mat of an AGM battery or gel cell change the basic chemistry that produces the electricity. The construction techniques do affect how the battery interacts with its external system. For example the AGM style battery has a much lower internal resistance (enabling higher burst power for example), but then it also has a lower capacity from thinner plates.
From the Wikipedia page on lead acid batteries: A lead–acid battery's nominal voltage is 2.2 V for each cell. For a single cell, the voltage can range from 1.8 V loaded at full discharge, to 2.10 V in an open circuit at full charge. Float voltage varies depending on battery type (i.e. flooded cells, gelled electrolyte, absorbed glass mat), and ranges from 1.8 V to 2.27 V.

 

[DcnPat]

This is a wonderful discussion and I'm still left wondering why?

The chemistry is the chemistry but as mentioned actual use shows AGM batteries like a lower float voltage than flooded cells for maximum life. There is probably some fancy thermodynamic explaination for it but I stopped worry about that kind of thing many years ago.

They really should have gone with LiFePO4 for the 12V side of things. As long as you keep them above 36F or so they are great. I've had the same one in my motorcycle for eight or 9 years.

My solution to the low 12V SOC disabling connected features was to set the SOC limit to 95, turn off approach lighting, and take the dog for a ride every morning to pick up breakfast.

I do notice the 12V system voltage reported on my FT-300dr (that is a Yaesu ham radio for the non-hams in the audience) connected to the main 12V battery shows from 12.8 V - 15.3 V on my morning runs.

 

[Gros Ventre]

This is a wonderful discussion and I'm still left wondering why?

The chemistry is the chemistry but as mentioned actual use shows AGM batteries like a lower float voltage than flooded cells for maximum life. There is probably some fancy thermodynamic explaination for it but I stopped worry about that kind of thing many years ago.

They really should have gone with LiFePO4 for the 12V side of things. As long as you keep them above 36F or so they are great. I've had the same one in my motorcycle for eight or 9 years.

My solution to the low 12V SOC disabling connected features was to set the SOC limit to 95, turn off approach lighting, and take the dog for a ride every morning to pick up breakfast.

I do notice the 12V system voltage reported on my FT-300dr (that is a Yaesu ham radio for the non-hams in the audience) connected to the main 12V battery shows from 12.8 V - 15.3 V on my morning runs.

The AGM construction batteries are more susceptible to over charging than flooded cell types. I infer this leads to the 80% charge limit, which in turn is the basis of the 12.9VDC I've observed when in steady state, fully warmed up ops. My initial indications were an electrical system warning on the road at 65mph. Had to stop and put a handheld voltmeter on it to know what was up... so I put in a dashboard voltmeter... I don't like these digital warnings that don't tell you what is up. After replacing the OEM Battery with a NAPA unit all has been well. Out here in Western Wyoming we get to -20ºF routinely with sometimes as low as -40ºF... So I'm good wth the lead acid batteries...

 

[MR650]

The AGM construction batteries are more susceptible to over charging than flooded cell types. I infer this leads to the 80% charge limit, which in turn is the basis of the 12.9VDC I've observed when in steady state, fully warmed up ops. My initial indications were an electrical system warning on the road at 65mph. Had to stop and put a handheld voltmeter on it to know what was up... so I put in a dashboard voltmeter... I don't like these digital warnings that don't tell you what is up. After replacing the OEM Battery with a NAPA unit all has been well. Out here in Western Wyoming we get to -20ºF routinely with sometimes as low as -40ºF... So I'm good wth the lead acid batteries...

Good to hear.
Which exact which exact battery model/capacity/group did you go with?

im having 12v fault warnings on my 2021 pb limited.

im also having a similar discussion about battery problems with my 1974 bronco over in the classic broncos forum Where guys are recommending “upgrades” and I’m staying where I’m at with the older tech.

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