Oil Analysis

[Gros Ventre]

I have used Blackstone Labs for years. this past year their turn around time on samples has become so long as to be just recording history. The results do not arrive in time to make a near real time decision on those results. What Labs are others using? I'm ready to change.

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[fordtruckman2003]

Are you using the white envelopes?

 

[Gros Ventre]

the issue is how long it takes after they receive the sample.

 

[Dale B]

I don’t understand why someone would spend $30 for an oil analysis yet use conventional oil or synthetic blend oil? It costs me $60 for ten quarts of Mobile 1.

I can understand why oil analysis is cost effective in large rigs that have ten or twenty gallons of oil, but not when you spend more than 50% of the cost of an oil change to have an analysis done.

 

[pavementends]

Bummer, I just last week sent in a sample to Blackstone at 23k miles. I'll let you know TAT.

 

[fordtruckman2003]

the issue is how long it takes after they receive the sample.

Very small operation. Used to be one guy for many years.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I don’t understand why someone would spend $30 for an oil analysis yet use conventional oil or synthetic blend oil? It costs me $60 for ten quarts of Mobile 1.

I can understand why oil analysis is cost effective in large rigs that have ten or twenty gallons of oil, but not when you spend more than 50% of the cost of an oil change to have an analysis done.

If your goal is to get to your next trade-in...that fits. If you want to keep your truck well beyond that, monitoring things just makes sense.

 

[Dale B]

If your goal is to get to your next trade-in...that fits. If you want to keep your truck well beyond that, monitoring things just makes sense.

I don't retire my vehicles until well past 250,000 miles and 20 to 25 years of age. I have used Mobile 1 since 1978 and change the oil and filter at 10,000 miles as prescribed by the manufactures and have never had an oil related problem. I can't recall ever having to add oil between oil changes and the reason for retiring the vehicles is due to aging and just tired parts and systems, not engine trouble. I have put as many as 340,000 miles on a vehicle with no engine trouble other than replacing timing chains at 150,000 miles on four cam engines as preventative maintenance.

If I were concerned about the condition of my oil, rather than spending $30 to have it tested, I would spend $60 and change it. When I was in the Army, we would have the oil in the trucks tested to tell if it should be changed. Those trucks just sat in the lot waiting to be deployed and were driven very little. It made sense to test rather than change ten gallons of oil that has just been sitting. My vehicles have oil pans that range from eight to twelve quarts, so the cost of an oil change is minimal.

That is just me and my system. If people want to spend their time and money to have seven quarts of oil tested, then by all means do it. I don't have to agree with the reasoning.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I keep mine well past your numbers. I spent a career operating, maintaining, and repairing nuclear subs to include a tour as Chief Engineer of one. Lubricating oil analysis was a routine part of the life of machinery, that's how we get them out to the lifetimes the Navy does. My Suburban went 30 years on Mobil One and then AmsOil. In my accounting it is cheaper to take sample than to do oil changes. I let the sample results tell me when to change the lubricants. Interestingly I changed out axles and transfer case oils and the front axle OEM fill just looked unsat, so I'm glad I did that. An example: Last summer I did a speed run of 1,000 miles a day over a four day period. On completing it I did a sample and the oil was still in good condition. In my case the developing sample results seem to tell me that Boron additive and TBN are the drivers of engine oil condition. I'm investigating whether to add specific elements to the engine oil when predicted depletion occurs. We'll see. I expect those additives to be much less costly than a full up oil change. So thinking about it.

 

[Dale B]

I keep mine well past your numbers. I spent a career operating, maintaining, and repairing nuclear subs to include a tour as Chief Engineer of one. Lubricating oil analysis was a routine part of the life of machinery, that's how we get them out to the lifetimes the Navy does. My Suburban went 30 years on Mobil One and then AmsOil. In my accounting it is cheaper to take sample than to do oil changes. I let the sample results tell me when to change the lubricants. Interestingly I changed out axles and transfer case oils and the front axle OEM fill just looked unsat, so I'm glad I did that. An example: Last summer I did a speed run of 1,000 miles a day over a four day period. On completing it I did a sample and the oil was still in good condition. In my case the developing sample results seem to tell me that Boron additive and TBN are the drivers of engine oil condition. I'm investigating whether to add specific elements to the engine oil when predicted depletion occurs. We'll see. I expect those additives to be much less costly than a full up oil change. So thinking about it.

The analysis sounds interesting, but I don't know much about the causes and effects of the results. My greatest concerns are the metal filings and some of the acids from blowby. Although unleaded fuels have improved on some of those things. Aluminum cylinders may also be less harmful than cast iron for both filings and mineral content. See I don't know whether boron is good or bad in the oil. That kind of information only has value if you know what to do with it and it gets very complicated.
I do know that high temperatures break down oil faster and that turbo bearings are hot, especially under high boost conditions. That is one reason that I am buying a 5.0 rather than one of the turbo motors. The heat in and around the turbos causes much more strain than in a normally aspirated engine.

I agree that there is a need to replace all lubricants after break-in.

 

[Gros Ventre]

These cylinders have cast iron liners. As to the filings, I installed a 1µ bypass filter to go after that. Boron is an additive, so its there to improve the oil & lubricity. As to temperature issues, its true the turbos run hot when boosting, however, unlike Aircraft engines, they rarely run continuously. I see that as an intermittent things with cooldown time. I let the analysis tell me when its time to change. In my mind the condition of the oil is like any other component, you change it when the condition of the oil says to. As I've noted, it appears that Boron & TBN are the elements of oil that deplete and it seems to occur around 12,000 miles.

 

[wayfarer556]

I don't retire my vehicles until well past 250,000 miles and 20 to 25 years of age. I have used Mobile 1 since 1978 and change the oil and filter at 10,000 miles as prescribed by the manufactures and have never had an oil related problem. I can't recall ever having to add oil between oil changes and the reason for retiring the vehicles is due to aging and just tired parts and systems, not engine trouble. I have put as many as 340,000 miles on a vehicle with no engine trouble other than replacing timing chains at 150,000 miles on four cam engines as preventative maintenance.

If I were concerned about the condition of my oil, rather than spending $30 to have it tested, I would spend $60 and change it. When I was in the Army, we would have the oil in the trucks tested to tell if it should be changed. Those trucks just sat in the lot waiting to be deployed and were driven very little. It made sense to test rather than change ten gallons of oil that has just been sitting. My vehicles have oil pans that range from eight to twelve quarts, so the cost of an oil change is minimal.

That is just me and my system. If people want to spend their time and money to have seven quarts of oil tested, then by all means do it. I don't have to agree with the reasoning.

$30 is super cheap to get a detailed analysis of what's going on inside of your engine. Most of the time it's probably normal, but sometimes you may see a spike of some material that can give you an idea of something that's getting ready to fail.

In summary, it's just a tool to help get ahead of a problem before it turns into an actual problem. You don't have to do it all the time.

Also, I don't really understand your reasoning of "just change your oil." I mean, yeah, duh. Changing your oil and inspecting old oil for particulates is not the same thing. It's like going to the doctor and getting a blood sample. Everything's probably fine, but they may figure out that you have something wrong early before it's life threatening. Same concept. And most of the time, "changing your blood with fresh blood" isn't going to magically resolve your problem the old blood could have alerted your doctor to lol.

 

[Gros Ventre]

"It's just [another] tool." ...And that's my point, it's a tool to monitor things. I agree. For example after my 4 day, 1,000 miles per day speed run last summer, I sampled to see if anything would show up. As it turned out nothing unusual came up in the results, but it was good to have that info.

 

[Dale B]

$30 is super cheap to get a detailed analysis of what's going on inside of your engine. Most of the time it's probably normal, but sometimes you may see a spike of some material that can give you an idea of something that's getting ready to fail.

In summary, it's just a tool to help get ahead of a problem before it turns into an actual problem. You don't have to do it all the time.

Also, I don't really understand your reasoning of "just change your oil." I mean, yeah, duh. Changing your oil and inspecting old oil for particulates is not the same thing. It's like going to the doctor and getting a blood sample. Everything's probably fine, but they may figure out that you have something wrong early before it's life threatening. Same concept. And most of the time, "changing your blood with fresh blood" isn't going to magically resolve your problem the old blood could have alerted your doctor to lol.

Most of the time I read of people using the test to determine if they should change their oil. Using the test to evaluate the remaining life of the oil and whether it is time to change it.
If you can use the data to evaluate the health of your engine then that is great. The question is what are you going to do about it? I know it is useful in engine development, I just don’t know if it is helpful for the average Joe.

 

[wayfarer556]

Most of the time I read of people using the test to determine if they should change their oil. Using the test to evaluate the remaining life of the oil and whether it is time to change it.
If you can use the data to evaluate the health of your engine then that is great. The question is what are you going to do about it? I know it is useful in engine development, I just don’t know if it is helpful for the average Joe.

Here's a link to Blackstone's own document to help understand what their report tells you :
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Understanding-Engine-combined.pdf

Oil analysis can show you things such as coolant leaks happening that's getting into the engine, can clue you that your piston rings are wearing out earlier than expected, if too much water is leaking into the engine, cranks/bearings getting worn out (more than normal lead content), etc. There's a lot of experts online to help you read (Reddit and Bobistheoilguy.com or even these very forums). Also, doing a reading once or twice a year and tracking trends are really where these readings shine.

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