NHTSA Safety Recall (23V-896) on 113,000 F-150 Trucks with Trailer Tow Max Duty Package

[Snakebitten]

I'm curious about the 325V
I haven't ever seen the Powerboost battery beyond 300V.

Far more common at around 280V?

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[HammaMan]

I'm curious about the 325V
I haven't ever seen the Powerboost battery beyond 300V.

Far more common at around 280V?

Quoting...
"The peak AC output voltage from an EV inverter is directly related to the DC battery voltage. The exact relationship depends on the type of modulation used in the inverter. Let's assume the most common scenario:

• Modulation: Most modern EV inverters use Space Vector Pulse Width Modulation (SVPWM).
• SVPWM Ratio: With SVPWM, the peak line-to-line AC output voltage is approximately 1.22 times the DC battery voltage.

Calculation

1. Peak AC Output Voltage (line-to-line): 270V DC * 1.22 ≈ 329.4 V

Important Considerations:

• Line-to-Line vs. Line-to-Neutral: The 329.4V is the peak line-to-line voltage in the 3-phase system. If you need the line-to-neutral voltage, divide the line-to-line voltage by the square root of 3.
• Slight Variations: The exact voltage ratio can have minor variations depending on specific inverter design and modulation settings."

 

[Snakebitten]

Wow
Again, very interesting.
Where do you dig this stuff up? ??

I swear you are an android that never sleeps.

 

[JExpedition07]

I tracked and compiled certain bolt-break data reported on 'the other forum' (not to be construed as a statistically valid undertaking) for a period of time, ending with 142 unique owner entries (~18 of those had those had repeat failures above the 142 data entries). "Which side" was not an item I formally tracked, but FWIW my recall is that the driver's side failed more often than, and / or before, the passenger side.

Engine type was formally tracked, PB accounted for 67% of reports. I still suspect that the 'reverse loading' of regenerative braking, likely occurring more frequently than the 'reverse loading' on an IC drivetrain, may hold a clue to the failure mechanism.

Attached FYI / FWIW is the final version of my data compilation. Folks continued to report failures, but I stopped the compilation effort because it became tedious and I wasn't observing any IMO significant change in the trends (again, NOT a statistically valid undertaking).

Make of it what you will ....

I don’t think you can blame the PowerBoost for this. The data set is severely skewed. Typically PowerBoost is on a more loaded dealer order truck and Max tow is checked commonly by the dealer just to load it up to the max. Generally 3.5 and 5.0 max tow trucks are retail customer orders, so there are simply less 5.0/3.5 max tow axles out there than PB. More PB = more reports of failure.

Also, looking at this forum, PowerBoost owners are largely over-represented online. At any given time the PB section will have 100+ viewing, usually followed by maybe 40 viewing the 5.0 section, 25 in 3.5 EB, 10 in 2.7 EB. PowerBoost are the minority in the real world, but make up a majority of forum users (at least here). 2.7 is (was) the volume leading engine yet generally has the least forum traffic here. Tough to quantify any meaningful data with all these variables.

 

[Snakebitten]

So, are you saying Powerboost owners are more nerdy than most?

???

I'll answer my own question.

Well duh. Lol

 

[JExpedition07]

So, are you saying Powerboost owners are more nerdy than most?

???

I'll answer my own question.

Well duh. Lol

You guys and us 5.0 guys are over represented here, just stating it for record before conclusions are drawn. Most forum order trackers and general traffic are for PB & 5.0. In the real world I see a lot more 2.7’s than anything else, just sayin…

 

[Buyer2021]

I don’t think you can blame the PowerBoost for this. The data set is severely skewed.

I don't 'blame' the PB and I readily acknowledged (twice in that post) that the dataset is not by any stretch statistically meaningful. By the same token, I respectfully don't think you have a basis for determining the dataset is 'skewed' in any particular direction.

I simply expressed a suspicion that the cycling of loading forward / reverse at the axle-shaft > hub splined interface has some role in the failure mechanism, and that the PB, by virtue of regenerative braking, likely undergoes more of those cycles (and perhaps more 'forcefully') than the IC counterparts. No question, the failures are not exclusive to the PB and all drivetrains experience that cyclic loading reversal to some degree.

As I said, "make of it what you will", YMMV, we're all speculating, no worries!

 

[HammaMan]

Correction, PB's motor is 41kW w/ 300nm torque (aviators is 75kW also 300nm torque)

@amschind https://www.schaeffler.com/en/media...gital-conference-book-2022/hybrid-powertrain/

Scroll down to where this starts... I think you'll find this approach intriguing, ICE, e-motor and generator all in one. No gears, all done with electric motors, and will clutch in ICE direct-drive. Crazy stuff and it's being built. Not for a truck

Seems complex, yet simple

Ice / trans / final drive all in one (ICE is OEM's choice) -- those are the half shafts at bottom of image.

 

[amschind]

The simple "remove two energy conversion stages for the price of a clutch" argument is compelling, but what about engine RPM vs wheel RPM? The benefit of a series hybrid that offsets its extra energy conversion step is its ability to keep a heavily optimized engine in a narrow powerband. IF the ICE is great between 2k-2500 RPM, and there is no transmission, then you have to select a gear for a fairly narrow range of vehicle speeds where the clutch can work.

 

[wrgrimes]

This conversation has long left us mortals.

 

[Nasto]

So just for grins, let's try to find an optimistic 'spin' on this ....

They've stopped making the temporary-fix parts because the radically different and improved permanent-fix parts release is imminent and you're gonna be one of the first to get it!​

​

Too much optimism with too much 'spin'? Totally delusional?

Oh well, I tried ..... ?

The original Ford estimate of 2ND quarter 2024 has now been updated.


Remedy
Ford Motor Company is working to develop the service remedy for this repair. When the final service repair and parts are available, Ford Motor Company will notify you via mail to schedule a service appointment with your dealer for repairs to be completed free of charge parts and labor. The final repair and parts are anticipated to be available 1ST quarter 2025.

 

[Buyer2021]

The original Ford estimate of 2ND quarter 2024 has now been updated.

Yep, well documented a week ago in the main thread on the topic.

Nope, not even gonna try to put a positive spin on the latest update.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yep, well documented a week ago in the main thread on the topic.

Nope, not even gonna try to put a positive spin on the latest update.

No positive spin from me either. But I'm not going to doom and gloom either.

If a bolt shears, you'll get it repaired with a new axle/hub assembly. Very likely that repair will last until Ford is done kicking the can?

 

[Buyer2021]

No positive spin from me either. But I'm not going to doom and gloom either.

If a bolt shears, you'll get it repaired with a new axle/hub assembly. Very likely that repair will last until Ford is done kicking the can?

I did use 'roll eyes' and 'face palm' emoticons, expressing a bit of frustration, but I'm with ya 100% on this.

Love my truck, it can't be replicated, still consider it a 'keeper', just gonna hang in there and deal with it as it comes!

 

[thudnblunder]

Well I just left my keys and truck with my service writer at the dealership I PURCHASE my Ford vehicles from.

Anyone who knows me knows that wasn't easy for me to do. I haven't done so but a couple of times in the 24+ years I have been purchasing here.

Yesterday I had gone to the parts department, where I do have someone I do business with occasionally, and inquiried about how fast and how much for a ML3Z-4234-H (Passenger side axle)

He looked at his screen for a couple of minutes after I gave him my VIN, and then replied that he could get it "next day". But he also wanted me to know that my truck had a brand new "Recall" on that axle, so why was I purchasing one?

I was a bit surprised. First, I'm in the parts department, not the service department. And second, I know there's an upcoming recall, but it's not in affect yet? Right?

Nope. It's already a recall.
They printed it out for me.

I just got the rattle from my rear passenger side today. They checked the axles less than 3K miles ago as part of the recall and “everything was fine” though they didn’t do a preemptive repair.

I’m taking it in tomorrow.

Bummer.

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