mObridge DSP 8.1 Ford A2B

[Tblack214]

I've successfully installed them as a professional.

If you have any questions, feel free to post them and I'll answer when I can.

Would you recommend it? I have already installed the Focal Flax Evo 2 way (front) and coaxial (rear). I'm looking at the MTI half length behind the seat enclosure with a 10" JL Audio TW3-D4 sub. I'm not looking to spend crazy money, but I do appreciate a good sounding sound system while retaining the entire rear seat/under seat storage. (2021 Ford (Powerboost) Lariat).

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[Jbcaindo]

Would you recommend it? I have already installed the Focal Flax Evo 2 way (front) and coaxial (rear). I'm looking at the MTI half length behind the seat enclosure with a 10" JL Audio TW3-D4 sub. I'm not looking to spend crazy money, but I do appreciate a good sounding sound system while retaining the entire rear seat/under seat storage. (2021 Ford (Powerboost) Lariat).

Do you plan to tune it yourself?

If so, have you used a DSP before?

 

[Tblack214]

Do you plan to tune it yourself?

If so, have you used a DSP before?

I just saw another post as I was researching, you put together components and assist with the tune? I would like to talk if you have time this week.

 

[Jbcaindo]

I just saw another post as I was researching, you put together components and assist with the tune? I would like to talk if you have time this week.

I can, yes.

 

[HammaMan]

So your ac d5.1300 is somehow remotely equivalent to the 8.1.1?

Absolutely. First my chimes work right and are adjustable. I don't sell car audio so I don't have to blow smoke up people's ass. The door and tweeter's in the B&O A pillars can very easily share the same channel so long as you actually know how to configure a DSP. The timing given the distance is indistinguishable.

You sounded smart until that little bit. Let's point out some things.

Car audio is about as easy as it comes. I lose interest quick in easy topics and by the time I was even in my mid 20s I'd switched to building what's referred to 20 years on as reconnaissance drones. I'd lost interest in that 20 years ago

That's a 5 channel amp with 7 channels of dsp, so you're down 2 channels comparably.

Let's expand your knowledge real quick. A 4 channel DSP amp can control 8 non-frequency-overlapping channels of audio across 4 time domains.. I'm not going to assume anything given you install car audio, but you should at the very minimum be able to figure that out.

No center upmixing, just cap that speaker off right?

indeed I did forgo a center channel but given that I chose to only use 2 of the 4 channels on the 2nd amp / speakers not listed, I could very much Y the signal going to the left dash speaker mid and knock it down ~6db for the fill the center should be configured to add. Sounds like garbage given any real volume from my testing when mixed as the mono audio channel it is. The whole 'to center channel or not to center channel' debate is a whole other topic with most shops falling into the 'not needed' camp on; I've found it's only missed in A:B comparisons with no real long-term benefit found lacking since my original 8 channel DSP amp testing days when I first started the project.

Arguably one of the worst dsp/amp combos with an unbearable floor noise.

You have no idea what you're talking about, I'll illustrate this later on with a question

The worst gui and riddled with firmware and software gremlins that ac hasn't fixed in years.
Even their newest update was a joke and bricked more units than helped adding a whopping 2 apfs.

Funny, I had zero issues with it and found it quite easy to configure. Sounds more like a pebcak

Non defeatable 25hz lpf, that's handy for subs.

By all means post the enclosure specifics of a non obtrusive sealed enclosure in an F150 crew cab capable of hitting 25hz complete with SA showing it.

And about zero reputable tuners will even entertain tuning on them because of all the issues. Oh, and less than half of the available tuning parameters that the "lowly" mobridge DOES have. Maybe it's that near 8 year old chipset and processor in the ac...

DSP processing capabilities don't require but a fraction of what modern silicon is able to deliver. Even 'new' stuff is printed on decade+ old lithography machines.

Amp pro fd31 $450
Ac d5.1300 $900, need a remote too +$30

I got it all for $1200 at the time, and If I have an issue with any component, I can replace just the component and not a $1600 AIO.

Can we stop there?
At least the JL and pac are good ?‍

Let's take it a step further, where do you tap power from in the power boosts? I need a good laugh. I'm betting you're tapping the positive post at the primary AGM putting strain on the isolator's 6 and 8 gauge wires? Do you know how to make the PBs produce more than 14v continuously or are you just feeding the amps the 12.8v the truck produce once the batts are happy.

As far as power ratings of amps vs topology and technology, stay tuned as there is some absolutely impressive things coming to the mainstream.
Input voltage manipulation and high rail are just the tip of the iceberg.

No doubt tech will continue to improve, but even a 100% efficient amp cannot put out more energy than it's fed.

Let's check out the moboridge wiring on an improperly setup PB, and for simplicity sake let's give it 100% efficiency

11.7v at the end of the conductor, oof.

I've measured my truck's system pulling 115a peak but didn't see lower than 13.7v on the scope at the amp. Due to understanding the PB's LV architecture, using an LFP as an aux batt and knowing how to keep the voltage up, I'd considering installing a capacitor for transients but I didn't find it warranted on the scope. Way to go lithium I guess. I'm sure the 220a water cooled DC/DC converter is doing the heavy lifting here though.

 

[Jbcaindo]

Absolutely. First my chimes work right and are adjustable. I don't sell car audio so I don't have to blow smoke up people's ass. The door and tweeter's in the B&O A pillars can very easily share the same channel so long as you actually know how to configure a DSP. The timing given the distance is indistinguishable.

Car audio is about as easy as it comes. I lose interest quick in easy topics and by the time I was even in my mid 20s I'd switched to building what's referred to 20 years on as reconnaissance drones. I'd lost interest in that 20 years ago

Let's expand your knowledge real quick. A 4 channel DSP amp can control 8 non-frequency-overlapping channels of audio across 4 time domains.. I'm not going to assume anything given you install car audio, but you should at the very minimum be able to figure that out.

indeed I did forgo a center channel but given that I chose to only use 2 of the 4 channels on the 2nd amp / speakers not listed, I could very much Y the signal going to the left dash speaker mid and knock it down ~6db for the fill the center should be configured to add. Sounds like garbage given any real volume from my testing when mixed as the mono audio channel it is. The whole 'to center channel or not to center channel' debate is a whole other topic with most shops falling into the 'not needed' camp on; I've found it's only missed in A:B comparisons with no real long-term benefit found lacking since my original 8 channel DSP amp testing days when I first started the project.

You have no idea what you're talking about, I'll illustrate this later on with a question

Funny, I had zero issues with it and found it quite easy to configure. Sounds more like a pebcak

By all means post the enclosure specifics of a non obtrusive sealed enclosure in an F150 crew cab capable of hitting 25hz complete with SA showing it.

DSP processing capabilities don't require but a fraction of what modern silicon is able to deliver. Even 'new' stuff is printed on decade+ old lithography machines.

I got it all for $1200 at the time, and If I have an issue with any component, I can replace just the component and not a $1600 AIO.

Let's take it a step further, where do you tap power from in the power boosts? I need a good laugh. I'm betting you're tapping the positive post at the primary AGM putting strain on the isolator's 6 and 8 gauge wires? Do you know how to make the PBs produce more than 14v continuously or are you just feeding the amps the 12.8v the truck produce once the batts are happy.

No doubt tech will continue to improve, but even a 100% efficient amp cannot put out more energy than it's fed.

Let's check out the moboridge wiring on an improperly setup PB, and for simplicity sake let's give it 100% efficiency

11.7v at the end of the conductor, oof.

I've measured my truck's system pulling 115a peak but didn't see lower than 13.7v on the scope at the amp. Due to understanding the PB's LV architecture, using an LFP as an aux batt and knowing how to keep the voltage up, I'd considering installing a capacitor for transients but I didn't find it warranted on the scope. Way to go lithium I guess. I'm sure the 220a water cooled DC/DC converter is doing the heavy lifting here though.

Drivel Drivel.

Let me get this straight, you think that the tweeter and door in a new body f150 can share time alignment and be accurate beyond mediocre in a passive 2way configuration? Jeez, I wonder why b&o didn't think of that and skip the extra channels.

Depending on seating position, and where us "dumb" "audio installers" place the mic arrays to shoot impulse, you can have pathlength differences well into the .5ms range, at least that's what my dual FFT system shows.

You also stated that a center is "just" mono. It's mono in the sense that it's a single signal. Are we forgetting about the upmixing? It's not just a "Y" from the left and right... You couldn't make a legitimate center channel with the AC dsp, is the point. The mobridge, among other good DSPs, have onboard upmixing that mimic dolby algorithms.

If a "shop" can't figure out how to 2 seat tune utilizing a properly upmixed center, that's on them. I can suggest them a psycho acoustics class if needed, one that's considered a standard at this point.


If you think car audio is "so easy" and boring, show us your final RTA, IR and phase response of this awesome and perfectly aligned system you did for $1200.

The fact that you had to point out your accolades outside of the topic to display how amazing you are is telling.

Hopefully your RTA, IR and phase results show your superiority on THIS topic. Please show something with some actual resolution. And definitely show us on what speaker at what frequency the APF was needed. Every ford truck needs AT LEAST one . Happy hunting...

 

[HammaMan]

The A pillar tweeters and door speakers in the B&O aren't even on the DSP. The headrest L channel is shared by both seats as is the right channel. If it contains any time alignment at all it's most likely done by pairs of channels. While the B&O is slightly better than the base audio config, it's just. I use multiple ear tuned profiles in the DSP. Given your screenshot showing tun software, looks like you're programming to a machine flat-out, a process it does itself when connected to a compatible amp.

The cabin of a vehicle is about as imperfect of an audio stage as one can get, and to-ear tuning is the only way for the primary listener to dial in a system to their preferences. Even the most staunch flat-profile folks I know can't help tweaking the DSP to ear in a vehicle, more specifically, their ear. Say what you must to justify your cut of the costs, but you're spinning your tires trying to sell it to me.

 

[Jbcaindo]

Interesting. You'll have to see if ford and b&o will update their wiring diagrams upon your discovery.

If your truck is an unleashed AND you abandoned the dash mids... ?

 

[mObridge]

I did, it's in my sig

Must be the power of magic to output more watts than it's consuming. Dark matter quantum vacuum stuff huh?

I think its very clear you are not a professional in this industry, @Jbcaindo is and one of the best.
RMS values for amplifier output are measured using a sine wave, I agree that the current draw in this situation is right on the line for 6AWG cable.
Normal music has a crest factor between 4-10. The OEM specs (based of AES17-2015 standard) that we designed this amplifier platform require white noise to be played while testing. This has a crest factor of 6db which is basically means RMS/4

Current draw of our amplifier given the RMS figures @14.4v is 79a (1150W/14.4V). This with all channels driven with sine wave.

Regular average current draw would be roughly 20a (of course there will be larger peaks occasionally). There will be virtually no temperature rise of the cable even over long periods. The ampacity of 6awg + factory wire + internal capacitance can handle these peaks.

If anyone plans to listen to sine waves with their mObridge K2 we will happily include a 4awg power cable free of charge . The amp will still handle that too.

We have been around since 2004 and have thousands of happy customers. There are plenty of people on the Bronco6g forums who have installed our amp for those who wanted some reviews of the amp.

 

[mObridge]

Anyone out there using this amp (mObridge DSP 8.1 Ford A2B) for their 8 ch B&O audio system? Looking forward reviews.

Here is a review in a Bronco
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...t-b-o-audio-upgrade.84092/page-3#post-2419640

 

[Zyvin]

This has been very entertaining

 

[superfordman]

This has been very entertaining

 

[Jbcaindo]

Make the drive to KC if you ever get yours put in and I'll tune it for free.

Ps: every customer gets to add their own salt and pepper to the tune after I make sure the foundation is solid ? ?

 

[superfordman]

Make the drive to KC if you ever get yours put in and I'll tune it for free.

Ps: every customer gets to add their own salt and pepper to the tune after I make sure the foundation is solid ? ?

?nice! I may just have to take you up on that as I'm pretty much only on the opposite side of the state and then some. Funny enough, I figured you might be in KC as I'll be out there in a couple weeks for work, but flying out luckily versus making that wonderful drive.

 

[Jbcaindo]

There are some folks who still claim that you can generate a center channel by generating a difference signal (L-R) and also generating a summed signal (L+R) and then subtracting the difference signal from the summed signal.

Essentially, they say that (L+R)-(L-R) is the center because removing everything but the center from everything will leave them the center.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. (L+R)-(L-R) is 2R. This configuration will give you only the right channel twice as loud.

Here's a proof.

I generated a stereo audio track in Adobe Audition. In the left channel, there is a 100 Hz sine wave and a 4000Hz sine wave. The 100 Hz wave is at -12dB. The 4000 Hz wave is at -9dB. In the right channel there is the same 100Hz sine wave and a 1000Hz sine wave. The 100Hz sine wave is at -12dB and the 1000Hz sine wave is at -9dB.

OK, then, I set up a circuit in audiomulch so we can see what happens.

Here's what all of this looks like:

pic 1

OK. If you follow the filter graph on the left carefully, you can see the connections that combine these signals.
In the top left graph, we have the responses of the separate channels. Blue is left and red is right.
Clearly, you can see the separate peaks at 1000 and 4000. You only see the blue 100Hz peak because it is on top of the red one.

pic 2

Here is the red one by itself.

pic 3

OK, so we have a stereo track that contains some mono information--the 100Hz wave and some pure stereo information--the 1k wave that appears in the right channel and the 4k wave that appears in the left channel.
So, when we add them (L+R) we should see all three. When we generate our difference signal, (L-R) the mono info should be cancelled and we should be left with the stereo signal--the peaks at 1k and 4k.

In this display, we have the sum--all of the peaks.

pic 4

Now, I'll switch to the difference. The common information is cancelled (100Hz now at something like -100dB) and the two stereo peaks remain, because one is in one channel and the other is in the other channel.

pic 5


Got it? So now, we have one signal that is L+R and one that is L-R.
Now, lets subtract the difference from the sum to see what we get. If the smarties are correct and you can generate a center this easily, then we should see only the 100Hz peak because that's the common information.
Oh, and if this actually works, then all those mathematicians and acousticians who are designing upmixers and writing all of that code can be fired.
Here's (L+R)-(L-R)

pic 6

And that's 2R, Check out the new level at 100Hz. Was -12dB and is now -6dB. That's the 2. Clearly, the peak at 1k is there, and that's the R.

the center image that a stereo recording and stereo playback are designed to reproduce is just sound that's recorded exactly the same in both channels.
But, the center image that you hear reproduced by a pair of stereo loudspeakers is not the same as the same sound played by a single speaker located in front of you. Why? Because if the sound was actually in front of you, you would hear the same thing through both of your ears simultaneously. With two speakers you don't. The left ear and the right ear hear the same sound from the left speaker, but it's delayed in the right ear. The converse is true for the right and left ears and the right speaker. The result is a center image with a dip in the midrange that corresponds to the half wavelength of the difference in those distances, typically about 2k.
So, a center speaker and the correct processing is MORE CORRECT than stereo reproduction.

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