Buy-back approved. Any advice much appreciated.

[powerboatr]

bi

Just a guess.
Software software software

Which would include what FDRS is, as you mentioned. But I think onboard diagnostics should/will become much more sophisticated than just the vast increase we are seeing in the current DTC library.
(have you scrolled through the pages upon pages of DTC codes for the Powerboost?)

Currently the Factory Service Manual is still using the "legacy" method of listing the DTC, and then providing a sometimes very lengthy pinpoint test procedure. I've read a few and thought to myself that I'm reading a procedure that I have seen little evidence that the average Dealership mechanic/technician would do at his current job.
And as someone else mentioned earlier, I don't think Ford even gives the dealership the autonomy to decide to perform the pinpoint test procedure that is clearly provided by Ford?

I think necessity is the mother of the changes the industry will inevitably experience. Those diagnostic tools cited, that need to be developed, will run the SOFTWARE that can perform those current tedious (legacy/manual) pinpoint procedures. Quickly and efficiently, without requiring the technician to know how or why the tool works.

These trucks aren't magic voodoo machines. They are an ensemble of components with admittedly a daunting array of harnesses and connectors. If someone had the time, which nobody at a dealership does, the OP's Explorer could be diagnosed successfully. The issue is almost certainly a very finite component.

bingo
it has to be a software coding issue, i am surprised its not solved. i mean...somebody had to build the code,

remember a few months back the lincoln corsiar got STOP sell due to software on the driver/ing for the IPC that is shared with explorer, escape, edge titanium, kr and above explorers and a few other lincolns, you know the one that looks scary like what we have in 150 and now the 23 super duty

they all use the 360 camera and i am sure for cost...use the same modules.. surely a brain at ford could figure it out..

Sponsored

 

[PowerBoostSoCal]

I had a F150 Lariat PowerBoost with all the options, almost every box you could tick was on that truck. I really enjoyed driving it, everything worked great! It was recalled for some things, but I have a good/great dealer I go to and really didn't know anything was up until my service guy would tell me they need to replace x, y and z ... etc. I drive a lot and at 80,000 I got a warning light that basically was check engine, limited power, etc. Then got a message on my Ford app that a sensor in the transmission was failing, safe to drive but get to dealer for service. I scheduled an appointment and drove the truck for a couple of weeks, the light would come on once or twice a day. They replaced the sensor once and on my way home the warning light came back on, they replaced the sensor second time and same thing, sensor came on shortly after. Then they dropped the transmission and did a complete rebuild in their shop - drove it home and the light came on - Fourth time in they gave me a brand new Enterprise GMC Yukon and kept the truck for 30 days plus, this time they shipped in a brand new transmission. Lucky for me the transmission on the PB has a 100K warranty (which I was unaware), so I asked what would this cost me if I was out of warranty - get this - $12K for the transmission and probably $2 to 4K for the replacement, etc. I called Ford and worked with the dealer on a buy back (I was set on trying another make - Ram or GM), but the buy back they offered was basically a huge discount on another Ford vehicle (about $15K off) because of the miles they factored in the usage I got out of the vehicle. So now I have a 2023 F150 Lariat 3.5 EB - no more expensive new fangled stuff for me ... oh and I bought the 140K full bumper to bumper warranty through the dealer for $2500. Finally, I originally bought and had serviced at a small one dealer location in the city where I live - when I took the truck in for the first time the service guy told me it would be a few days before anyone could look at the truck, that it would probably be a couple of weeks before they could fix it, etc. plus the "loaner" they had was a two year old small and dirty something when I need a full size truck for my business. Service guy said they only have one certified tech for difficult repairs and suggested a large dealership for this service. So I went to a large dealer to a service advisor who was on his game, etc. Makes a huge difference, I will not go to the small un equipt dealers anymore.

 

[Eighthtry]

The dealer told me that they repair the vehicle again and it goes to a vehicle auction and gets sold. And no its a different dealer. The 1st dealer wouldn't take the vehicle back again after the 1st time it was there for 32 days and they told me they didn't know how to fix it. They told me I drove on a gravel road and a rock must have hit something. I'm not joking. Already asked the 1st dealer what they would give me on trade and it will cost about 18k to get a new 23 same options. The 22 we have has just under 14k miles. The dealer it has been to the Last 4 times won't take it on trade.

 

[MoSlick]

I have a 2022 f150 that has been great but I also have a 2022 ford explorer that is a train wreck. Looking for advice this is the 1st time I have been involved in a buy back. Vehicle is 1 year old almost exactly been towed to dealership 5 times total of over 80 days in the shop (and counting). Network communication error each time with 15-21 faults each time. Vehicle shuts off going down road ect. It's not good. How do I get the best deal out of this situation? Thanks. I am a little worried we are going to get screwed bc we got 9k off msrp when we ordered this explorer and if we can't get that now it's going to cost alot to get almost the same vehicle..

 

[Sorrynel]

Ford Buyback Program will give you the money back ( the money that you actually paid for the truck after all discounts) or you have the option to pick another Ford car at the same MSRP as your original car. I’ve been through this with my 2021 F150 after being in the shop for a total of over 30 days . I picked a new truck with more options and of course I paid the difference of $2500 over the original Msrp . On the original deal I got about the same discount like You being in the a-z program plus some additional discount because I paid all in cash money. If you need more info let me know.

 

[Newman]

Ford Buyback Program will give you the money back ( the money that you actually paid for the truck after all discounts) or you have the option to pick another Ford car at the same MSRP as your original car. I’ve been through this with my 2021 F150 after being in the shop for a total of over 30 days . I picked a new truck with more options and of course I paid the difference of $2500 over the original Msrp . On the original deal I got about the same discount like You being in the a-z program plus some additional discount because I paid all in cash money. If you need more info let me know.

Thanks for the reply. Ok ya that sounds acceptable to me. I just didn't want to lose all the discounts I would not be a happy camper. I'm guessing our new explorer will have a higher MSRP. Did they pay the sales tax and fees on the 2nd vehicle then? What about destination fee? Maybe I'm getting too picky but it's around 1600 destination fee I already paid on the 1st vehicle I don't really want to pay it again. Did they pay you anything for your truck being down for 30 days? I might try to get some for down time of vehicle since mine is a year old and has been in shop for going on 90 days.

 

[Sorrynel]

Thanks for the reply. Ok ya that sounds acceptable to me. I just didn't want to lose all the discounts I would not be a happy camper. I'm guessing our new explorer will have a higher MSRP. Did they pay the sales tax and fees on the 2nd vehicle then? What about destination fee? Maybe I'm getting too picky but it's around 1600 destination fee I already paid on the 1st vehicle I don't really want to pay it again. Did they pay you anything for your truck being down for 30 days? I might try to get some for down time of vehicle since mine is a year old and has been in shop for going on 90 days.

I didn’t pay any taxes or fees on the new transaction. I just Paid cash (again) for the difference in the MSRP when I went to pick up the truck. I went online and I picked the the truck I wanted ( it can be from any dealership) I gave them the dealer’s Name and the VIN number of the new truck and Ford worked the transanction with the Ford dealer. I was able to get Ford loaners when I didn’t have my truck. I had to push them for this. I didn’t try to get any other compensation from Ford. That I’m sure will complicate things and that’s when you might have to get a lawyer.

 

[Chili]

Thanks for the reply. Ok ya that sounds acceptable to me. I just didn't want to lose all the discounts I would not be a happy camper. I'm guessing our new explorer will have a higher MSRP. Did they pay the sales tax and fees on the 2nd vehicle then? What about destination fee? Maybe I'm getting too picky but it's around 1600 destination fee I already paid on the 1st vehicle I don't really want to pay it again. Did they pay you anything for your truck being down for 30 days? I might try to get some for down time of vehicle since mine is a year old and has been in shop for going on 90 days.

It's straight MSRP vs MSRP, at least here.

If you paid 50k for a 60k truck, they are going to give you 60k for your new truck but no discounts apply on that new truck. That's assuming there is no mileage deduction as some states have that rule and now you may be getting 55k or whatever it works out to be.

Backend paperwork seemed to indicate Ford was paying the dealer invoice for the truck. There were no document fees, tabs, destination or sales tax that I had to worry about. Maybe I had to pay sales tax on the msrp difference - I can't remember that part specifically.

 

[Newman]

I'm still waiting to get a offer from Ford. Not impressed. I call them almost everyday.

 

[My 2ND Ford]

I have a feeling that it's not the tech in the vehicles, it's the wiring. Modern manufacturing of electronics is rock solid. The machines that put circuit boards together are amazing to watch with the precision and speed they assemble things. Furthermore the components on them are also more than capable of providing decades of life.

Take modern computer hardware in general. There's thousands of possible part combinations and they just work. The issue for someone like ford is they might buy module A from a company while not negotiating full rights to the underlying code. Hell they might not even have the means to do anything to it due to locked bootloaders or obfuscated code (the lines of code are ran though a process that turns them into nonsense for the simple fact of thwarting someone from making sense of it).

Furthermore there's diagnostic tools in FDRS that I'd bet 90% of techs don't even know exist. Take for instance the bus diagnostics test that allows FDRS to continually talk to any and all busses someone would want to. By narrowing it down to a couple busses where issues are, wiring could continually be jiggled / manipulated to find the 'easier' faults -- but only if they're aware the tool is there. Other issues stem from ford not doing more with the diagnostic data they siphon up. They're a tech company that's failing to understand such. They should be analyzing all of the data from dealers continually, particularly when techs go on a module replacement spree. The process for diagnosing something should be a moving bar that can differ day-to-day as each new case and remedy are fed back into the diagnostic algo. They could even take it up a notch giving different procedures to different techs working on similar issues to even refine the process.

Tech isn't the issue, poor implementation of it is.

I agree with HammaMan on this. It doesn't take much to set an error code. A misaligned pin that worked well enough upon assembly at the factory, after being jiggled around by driving, no longer make a good connection to function properly. How many components are condemned because of a faulty wire connection. If a sensor reports a failure , how many times is it the sensor as opposed to a bad connection. Multiple replacements usually points to a fault somewhere else.
When I was in high school way back in the dark ages of computing we had a favorite expression of GIGO, garbage in , Garbage out. If a sensor doesn't get the correct voltage due to wire damage , then it can't produce the correct value, hence a fault code.
I follow a gentleman on YouTube called South Main Auto who is an excellent electrical diagnostician. He can do wonders with wire diagrams, simple scan tools and he will ofttimes make a flow chart. Lots of times it is a failed component, but also it turns up as broken wire, corrosion , or something like a damaged pin in a multi pin connector.
How many times will we fire the parts cannon at a vehicle before we give up, when it could have been a wire problem. DTC's start you on the path , but you still have to have knowledge of how things work to properly repair them, and that my friends is the problem. We live in a plug and play society where after replacing the component multiple times doesn't fix the problem, we deem it unfixable and move on.
This unfortunately is not something new, the problem has always been present in Vehicles and mechanics, it's just that newer vehicles are more complicated and labor intensive to get to the root of the problem.
I apologize for the long and drawn out post , but I have seen this scenario played out many times in my years dealing with the automotive industry.

Sponsored