Buy-back approved. Any advice much appreciated.

[Newman]

I have a 2022 f150 that has been great but I also have a 2022 ford explorer that is a train wreck. Looking for advice this is the 1st time I have been involved in a buy back. Vehicle is 1 year old almost exactly been towed to dealership 5 times total of over 80 days in the shop (and counting). Network communication error each time with 15-21 faults each time. Vehicle shuts off going down road ect. It's not good. How do I get the best deal out of this situation? Thanks. I am a little worried we are going to get screwed bc we got 9k off msrp when we ordered this explorer and if we can't get that now it's going to cost alot to get almost the same vehicle..

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[Snakebitten]

Just curious, but what has been swapped out on the Explorer at this point?

GWM?
Any harnesses?

It really sucks to consider that one of these modern electronically laiden vehicles can fail the customer completely because of what could be something no more serious than a faulty pin contact in 1 single harness connector. Yet there's nothing anyone can do to have it successfully diagnosed and repaired.

 

[Newman]

Just curious, but what has been swapped out on the Explorer at this point?

GWM?
Any harnesses?

It really sucks to consider that one of these modern electronically laiden vehicles can fail the customer completely because of what could be something no more serious than a faulty pin contact in 1 single harness connector. Yet there's nothing anyone can do to have it successfully diagnosed and repaired.

The GWM has been replaced and the BCM. And had it back for 3 days and did it again so it's back in the shop so neither of those fixed the problem.

 

[Snakebitten]

Thanks for the reply.

I've always wanted to be able to follow one of these vehicles AFTER it was bought back.
Something happens to it. It doesn't go to the crusher. And it can't be a functional vehicle for its next owner until/unless the malady is solved.
Assuming it somehow does get successfully diagnosed and repaired, what was different about that process and the failed process you have experienced?

Regardless, I hope you get a solution that doesn't sting too much financially. If it's the same dealership you got such a good deal on originally, maybe they will be fair with you this time around.

 

[Newman]

Thanks for the reply.

I've always wanted to be able to follow one of these vehicles AFTER it was bought back.
Something happens to it. It doesn't go to the crusher. And it can't be a functional vehicle for its next owner until/unless the malady is solved.
Assuming it somehow does get successfully diagnosed and repaired, what was different about that process and the failed process you have experienced?

Regardless, I hope you get a solution that doesn't sting too much financially. If it's the same dealership you got such a good deal on originally, maybe they will be fair with you this time around.

The dealer told me that they repair the vehicle again and it goes to a vehicle auction and gets sold. And no its a different dealer. The 1st dealer wouldn't take the vehicle back again after the 1st time it was there for 32 days and they told me they didn't know how to fix it. They told me I drove on a gravel road and a rock must have hit something. I'm not joking. Already asked the 1st dealer what they would give me on trade and it will cost about 18k to get a new 23 same options. The 22 we have has just under 14k miles. The dealer it has been to the Last 4 times won't take it on trade.

 

[Snakebitten]

The Factory Authorized Service Industry is in the saddest state I've seen in my 65 years.
The disconnect between what is being manufactured currently and the skillset of the after sale support services is huge.

Technology is so wonderful and crippling simultaneously.

 

[Snakebitten]

History records that there is an obvious lack of force that exists to reverse the direction that technology marches.
And the bumps and bruises that come along with it are just as inevitable.

It's the shortcomings in QC that are inexcusable, in my opinion.
Anyone with one of these modern vehicles that doesn't experience these maladies, and there are many, has evidence that the manufacturer is capable of delivering a properly built vehicle.
And worse, those vehicles that get delivered with the faulty component(s)/assembly, currently will face the cultural apathy and/or lack of expertise to resolve the problem by those that are the only source to get a remedy from.

 

[Vin]

...those vehicles that get delivered with the faulty component(s)/assembly, currently will face the cultural apathy and/or lack of expertise to resolve the problem by those that are the only source to get a remedy from.

Bingo. I waited 11 months on a part for my last premium top of the line vehicle that "might fix it" (was in a comparable loaner). I vowed to immediately get a a big dumb truck after the Caddy was fixed and settled on an XL with a column shifter and rubber floors. "There is no tech on this thing. Easy to fix. etc". WRONG!!! My truck has been reliable but it is clearly full of tech. When someone here posted a video of my column shifter electronically activating on its own to shift into Park and when the truck auto applies the brakes in reverse, I knew I was still driving a rolling computer.

 

[Buyer2021]

And worse, those vehicles that get delivered with the faulty component(s)/assembly, currently will face the cultural apathy and/or lack of expertise to resolve the problem by those that are the only source to get a remedy from.

Sad, but seems to be all too often true.

Wishing the best for the OP.

 

[Golf Cart Wizard]

As someone who is a professional technician this isn't necessarily true. There aren't many people who would argue carburetors are more reliable than fuel injection, for example.

These mysterious electrical issues that stump multiple dealers would likely be simple fixes to anyone competent/trained in electrical and computer diagnostics. That's why I went into golf cart repair not automotive, I'd rather look at diagrams and poke around with a multimeter than get covered in grease messing with engines. I see the same problems with other golf cart shops, I can't count the times someone has come into my shop after getting some ridiculous quote to replace multiple electrical components for me to find something as silly as a corroded connector.

I think the real issue is lack of training and resistance to change at the dealership service department. Most of these dealers have been in business so long the service department is still used to doing things the old way. I wonder how many of these dealerships even have an oscilloscope let alone techs that would know how to use it. Also with flat rate pay there isn't much of an incentive for the tech or the service department to really attempt to diagnose a vehicle. If they aren't getting paid to find the problem they'd rather just let the manufacturer buy it back than deal with the headache in many cases. Something needs to change in training and/or hiring for techs to get people skilled in electrical not just mechanical repairs, and the manufacturers need to stop limiting warranty pay for diagnostics especially with come backs. There are many electronic parts in cars that are far more reliable than the mechanical systems they replaced, the main problem is the lack of knowledge/incentive in the industry.

Just sad to see people having to deal with a buyback on a vehicle they're otherwise happy with for what could just be a loose pin in a connector somewhere

 

[powerboatr]

you want to add more pain?
my dealer has 3 explorers 2023 models, one KR and 2 timberline, they been on his lot one in feb and the other two since apr...guess why they are not sold?
the 360 camera, software hiccup that screwed up many vehicles including a few lincon models that use the same electronic dash much like whats in the 150

he cant sell them as ford STILL has not found a resolution for these vehicles.. explorers after these 3 build dates are fine, but the ones caught in the middle are rapidly becoming scrap, as ford has still not figured out or fixed the software to hardware glitch.

maybe your 22 is suffering from the same crazy software issue and nobody is really trying to solve it..just throw parts at it

its very very sad
i feel for your situation and hope it comes out good for you

 

[Grafx36510]

Technology isn’t a bad thing. Advancement in technology isn’t a bad thing. I work in an industry that has been “dead” since I started in 1995. You know what, still not dead, still growing—albeit at a slower pace—and TECH has been a major part of that continued growth.

Sure, there are guys that were taught the old school ways and don’t trust the tech, but those companies are the ones that I get equipment auction notices 4 out of 5 days a week.

At the end of the day, it comes down to the dealership and techs to make sure they’re trained on new technology. For better or worse, it’s a franchise business model and that seems to be holding the, in @Snakebitten terminology “factory authorized service center,” back. If you want to prosper, give your employees the tools to succeed and pay them appropriately.

 

[Newman]

you want to add more pain?
my dealer has 3 explorers 2023 models, one KR and 2 timberline, they been on his lot one in feb and the other two since apr...guess why they are not sold?
the 360 camera, software hiccup that screwed up many vehicles including a few lincon models that use the same electronic dash much like whats in the 150

he cant sell them as ford STILL has not found a resolution for these vehicles.. explorers after these 3 build dates are fine, but the ones caught in the middle are rapidly becoming scrap, as ford has still not figured out or fixed the software to hardware glitch.

maybe your 22 is suffering from the same crazy software issue and nobody is really trying to solve it..just throw parts at it

its very very sad
i feel for your situation and hope it comes out good for you

Mine is a xlt and doesn't have a 360 camera. But yes they are definetly throwing parts at it. I told them to press it into a small cube and order me another one joking of course but we got a good laugh. But I was wondering why they have 2 explorers that look new that are parked back in the sticks and they have been mowing around them all summer that could be related to the 360 camera issue. While I was in the shop talking to them they had a ram pickup brand new that wouldn't start that got towed in right before my explorer. And more troubling while I was there they had someone call in with a explorer that sounded like it was acting ALOT like mine. I guess if they don't give me a good deal to get a new one I do have 2 years 24k miles left on the warranty. Hahaha ? ? ?

 

[Grafx36510]

The GWM has been replaced and the BCM. And had it back for 3 days and did it again so it's back in the shop so neither of those fixed the problem.

I’m sorry that you’re going through this. I wish you the best of luck.

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