Brand new PB won’t start

[HammaMan]

I built the batt myself using EVE 105ah cells and a 180a BMS. Even when the truck's BMS says the batts are 'full', it will still charge at 40ah until it's at 85% full at which point the BMS only allows current to flow out, but won't accept incoming current due to the way the mosfets work. With the parameters I have set, I'd be surprised if the batt reaches 10,000 cycles before I notice any degradation. I have a few other things I'm working on, but will eventually source cells that make a drop-in replacement an easy choice for those looking to permanently get rid of even a hint of battery woes while having 12v to spare for whatever you'd want.

10k cycles at every-other-day driving is only 55 years......

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[HammaMan]

This is why they're so handy, even when near fully depleted they're still at higher voltage...
When the AGMs use just 30ah, they're basically 'dead' to the truck

 

[UGADawg96]

I built the batt myself using EVE 105ah cells and a 180a BMS. Even when the truck's BMS says the batts are 'full', it will still charge at 40ah until it's at 85% full at which point the BMS only allows current to flow out, but won't accept incoming current due to the way the mosfets work. With the parameters I have set, I'd be surprised if the batt reaches 10,000 cycles before I notice any degradation. I have a few other things I'm working on, but will eventually source cells that make a drop-in replacement an easy choice for those looking to permanently get rid of even a hint of battery woes while having 12v to spare for whatever you'd want.

10k cycles at every-other-day driving is only 55 years......

Did you replace the one under the hood or the one under the back seat or install a third one somewhere else ?

 

[HammaMan]

Did you replace the one under the hood or the one under the back seat or install a third one somewhere else ?

Rear seat as a test. The one under hood is an H8, aka Group 48, aka H88. There are several ready made LFPs to replace the under-hood batt. Just make sure to get a heated batt if you choose to play with that route. I wanted to start small to test out the ability for the charge system to handle it. I put a 280ah batt in and quickly shut it down due to it pulling 115a to charge. That's too much for the aux batt circuit to handle (fused each end 125a). Easily handled by under-hood means. The powerboost has 500a of 12v generation capability.

 

[HammaMan]

Something like this would likely work....
https://www.appbattery.com/product/...h-lifepo4-self-heating-lithium-battery-packs/

That thing has more energy in it than the damn HVB battery -- 3x its usable as well, LOL (it's got both 3x usable power of the HVB and the AGMs -- the AGM only has about 50ah of current until it's dead. The HVB only operates 43% to 68% and is 1.5kWh in total capacity. That linked LFP has 1.9kWh of capacity. That's how much different the tech is. And for reference, the HVB's total cell size is about 70% smaller than that battery. So when you hear someone talk about the hybrids 'big HVB' -- it's actually quite tiny.

 

[richardrocks]

Update: dealer says “no codes” and battery has normal cranking amps… “it just needs to charge”. I drove for an hour on Saturday… how is that not enough? I also park it in a garage that stays about 50 degrees.

This does not instill confidence. I’m actually nervous to own this thing. My cousin’s family has had a lot of Fords over the years and he laughed and simply said, Welcome to the Ford family FML

 

[richardrocks]

How about turning ECO idle on? Will that help my cause?

 

[HammaMan]

No, you must connect an AGM compatible battery charger to it in a manner where the truck's BMS can see it. Look at the under-hood batt. See that little thingy on the negative terminal? You need to connect to the truck side of it for the truck to see the the battery being charged. Alternatively you can connect directly to the battery, perform a 100% charge and then perform the BMS reset procedure (search)

 

[richardrocks]

No, you must connect an AGM compatible battery charger to it in a manner where the truck's BMS can see it. Look at the under-hood batt. See that little thingy on the negative terminal? You need to connect to the truck side of it for the truck to see the the battery being charged. Alternatively you can connect directly to the battery, perform a 100% charge and then perform the BMS reset procedure (search)

I feel like techs “should” know about this. I’ll take it back Friday and make them do it… and they won’t want to.

 

[HammaMan]

One thing to know about the powerboost. It will drain the HVB down to 43% or so running the 12v systems on accessory. So one thing to not do is to run on accessory for extended periods of time as it drops the HVB supplementing the 12v system then begins to consume the 12v's batts.

If the battery cools down overnight it can display the stop safely now issue where the HVB is drained (near 35%). This can happen by backing in where the truck ICE turns off and you're running on HVB. Then you may take a little while playing around and the HVB hits 43% (the zero point for all intents and purposes), and the 12v batts take up the load. They then easily drain to "low power mode" and then the sync shuts off. From that point it may only take 3 wakeups and you'll be at risk of no start.

So one way to avoid this is that once you pull in and put in park, hit the gas pedal to start it. If it starts let it run until it shuts off, then hop out. Now when you get in it again and go to 'start', the HVB has enough juice to power the 12v system backup and all is well. Yes, it's dumb. I had enough of it and swapped batts.

 

[richardrocks]

One thing to know about the powerboost. It will drain the HVB down to 43% or so running the 12v systems on accessory. So one thing to not do is to run on accessory for extended periods of time as it drops the HVB supplementing the 12v system then begins to consume the 12v's batts.

If the battery cools down overnight it can display the stop safely now issue where the HVB is drained (near 35%). This can happen by backing in where the truck ICE turns off and you're running on HVB. Then you may take a little while playing around and the HVB hits 43% (the zero point for all intents and purposes), and the 12v batts take up the load. They then easily drain to "low power mode" and then the sync shuts off. From that point it may only take 3 wakeups and you'll be at risk of no start.

So one way to avoid this is that once you pull in and put in park, hit the gas pedal to start it. If it starts let it run until it shuts off, then hop out. Now when you get in it again and go to 'start', the HVB has enough juice to power the 12v system backup and all is well. Yes, it's dumb. I had enough of it and swapped batts.

I appreciate all the support on here!

I’m just worried about longer term. My weekday drives are only a few miles at a time in cold weather. Sounds like this truck isn’t ready for prime time for some folks.

I’ve noticed that I’m usually in EV slinking thru my neighborhood and into the garage when I park, so I will definitely do what you said and fire up the ICE after parking.

I’m slightly annoyed that they didn’t put the battery on a charger… probably
Because of it passed testing. Should I bother doing the BMS reset if it hasn’t been on a charger over night?

Currently the truck is starting and driving fine, but it’s now in Deep Sleep every time I turn it off. Will ANY amount of driving clear this up without having to geek out and address all this myself?

 

[HammaMan]

Only reset the BMS if the 12v is 100% full. The issue is that the truck doesn't charge but to around 80% max and the systems in it just consume too much power. Just waking it up 3-4x is enough to trigger low power mode especially in winter. Most people don't have issues, but if you're only doing short drives on the regular, this will likely be a reoccurring issue for you. AGMs just don't charge for shit, due in part to the BMS programming. I got fed up with it.

It's the same thing in my MME with its shitty 35ah battery. I'm putting LFP in it too. I've had enough of their key off current draw causing low power mode.

 

[Snakebitten]

If you are mostly a short-tripper, there's a lot of vehicles that can't/won't deliver their best potential. But a Powerboost is definitely not going to be given an opportunity to shine.
Throw in cold winter climate, and it's stacking the deck against it.

The Ecoboost (ICE portion) really prospers from being at full operating temperatures for at least some portion of its runtime.
The 10r80 transmission takes as many as 20 miles before it gets to the "normal" range of operating temps.

The Hybrid potential of the Powerboost is gimped pretty much until engine coolant is near 180F. Below that the ratio of ICE/EV is pretty constrained.

Of course much of what is stated above applies, to some degree, to the vast majority of modern vehicles. It's just that the Powerboost is a poster child for Jekyll/Hyde regarding cold-shorter VS hot-longer commutes.

 

[richardrocks]

If you are mostly a short-tripper, there's a lot of vehicles that can't/won't deliver their best potential. But a Powerboost is definitely not going to be given an opportunity to shine.
Throw in cold winter climate, and it's stacking the deck against it.

The Ecoboost (ICE portion) really prospers from being at full operating temperatures for at least some portion of its runtime.
The 10r80 transmission takes as many as 20 miles before it gets to the "normal" range of operating temps.

The Hybrid potential of the Powerboost is gimped pretty much until engine coolant is near 180F. Below that the ratio of ICE/EV is pretty constrained.

Of course much of what is stated above applies, to some degree, to the vast majority of modern vehicles. It's just that the Powerboost is a poster child for Jekyll/Hyde regarding cold-shorter VS hot-longer commutes.

Indeed, I’ve read about oil dilution and various issues on other vehicles driven only short distances in cold weather (which is all there is for a lot of folks in Bend, Oregon, for about 6 months out of the year) I know it’s not ideal for a car, but short commutes are ideal for humans I’m lucky to have one! Maybe I should have gotten the V8 ?‍ I don’t plan on having children so that’s my contribution to the environment when people give me crap for my (modest) excesses.

Truly I wanted generator mode… and the truck is so nice otherwise. I hope I learn to live with these realities and I hope never to be stranded in a remote place. I’m glad that I at least had the sense to pull the battery for 10 minutes this morning… a lot of people would have called a tow truck. Also, the dealer played dumb. “Never heard of that”.

This is a great community… thanks for the info and advice!

 

[Snakebitten]

Indeed, I’ve read about oil dilution and various issues on other vehicles driven only short distances in cold weather (which is all there is for a lot of folks in Bend, Oregon, for about 6 months out of the year) I know it’s not ideal for a car, but short commutes are ideal for humans I’m lucky to have one! Maybe I should have gotten the V8 ?‍ I don’t plan on having children so that’s my contribution to the environment when people give me crap for my (modest) excesses.

Truly I wanted generator mode… and the truck is so nice otherwise. I hope I learn to live with these realities and I hope never to be stranded in a remote place. I’m glad that I at least had the sense to pull the battery for 10 minutes this morning… a lot of people would have called a tow truck. Also, the dealer played dumb. “Never heard of that”.

This is a great community… thanks for the info and advice!

Please don't think anything that I said should discourage you from whatever brings you joy.

That generator, along with being able to use the truck as an office for HOURS at a time, are worth the shorter oil change intervals! Lol

And nothing can stop you from taking a loooong Sunday drive to both explore what's around you AND burn off some condensation to boot.

Be sure to find a safe place to exercise the full range of wastegate motion too. The proverbial Italian tune-up, so to speak. I bet the truck will be just fine.

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