Acceptable weight for full-time payload?

[Popplemer]

I wish you could apply the HDPP to all trims (and even to 2024+ F150s).

I'm seriously consider retrofitting the HDPP rear leaf springs onto a (future) 2024 F150 Platinum along with Load Range E highway all season tires for a better towing experience. (I know it will NOT increase your LEGAL towing limit because what's printed on the data/trailering plate is final.)

Have you driven a truck set up this way? An F250 will ride about 10x better than an F150 with E range tires and too-hard suspension. If you're towing every time you leave the driveway then it might be ok. Just a word from the wise.

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[Polo08816]

I have a 2022 F-150 HDPP, with a max GVWR of 7850 lbs. I weighed it on a scale with GF, dog, camper, gear, full of gas, water, propane, etc. It came up to 7650 lbs, just 200 lbs below max. I made absolutely no mods to my truck suspension at all.

Since one year of ownership, most of my driving has been with the load (approx 15,000 miles of travel through America). I barely feel the truck has anything on board

I mentioned true weighed load here. Any payload from a brochure is useless. BTW, the payload on the door jamb sticker says 2500 lbs with occupants. After taking delivery of my pickup, I fueled it and weighed it right away. I did the math, sure enough, it came to 2500 lbs available.

I wish you could apply the HDPP to all trims (and even to 2024+ F150s).

I'm seriously consider retrofitting the HDPP rear leaf springs onto a (future) 2024 F150 Platinum along with Load Range E highway all season tires for a better towing experience. (I know it will NOT increase your LEGAL towing limit because what's printed on the data/trailering plate is final.)

I'm not looking to overload the truck either, but I figure it would be able to handle a 7-8k flat tilt bed car trailer (to include car) better.

Have you driven a truck set up this way? An F250 will ride about 10x better than an F150 with E range tires and too-hard suspension. If you're towing every time you leave the driveway then it might be ok. Just a word from the wise.

I have not, but I would disagree that a 3/4 ton will ride better than a F150 with the HDPP. The effective rear spring rate of the F150 HDPP would still be significantly lower than a F250.

LRE Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 are probably as comfortable as you can get for a LRE tire.

On that note, if I had to move up to a HD SRW pickup, I would skip the 3/4 ton altogether. When unloaded the F250 and F350 would ride very similarly because the overload leaf springs on the rear axles should not be engaged.

 

[Popplemer]

I have not, but I would disagree that a 3/4 ton will ride better than a F150 with the HDPP. The effective rear spring rate of the F150 HDPP would still be significantly lower than a F250.

LRE Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 are probably as comfortable as you can get for a LRE tire.

On that note, if I had to move up to a HD SRW pickup, I would skip the 3/4 ton altogether. When unloaded the F250 and F350 would ride very similarly because the overload leaf springs on the rear axles should not be engaged.

I tend to agree on the 250 vs 350 front. If you're going heavy duty, go heavy duty. With that in mind, I had 20 inch E Rated tires on my 21 regular cab and even with the compliant basic suspension it was a seriously terrible unloaded ride. I cannot imagine adding more leaves to this setup and expecting anything other than kidney pain. But, it will be your truck and I want you to be happy. As someone who's already traded out of that truck I simply want you to be aware of what you may be getting yourself into. After all, I've been most of the way there and I wasn't thrilled. Cheers.

 

[Polo08816]

I tend to agree on the 250 vs 350 front. If you're going heavy duty, go heavy duty. With that in mind, I had 20 inch E Rated tires on my 21 regular cab and even with the compliant basic suspension it was a seriously terrible unloaded ride. I cannot imagine adding more leaves to this setup and expecting anything other than kidney pain. But, it will be your truck and I want you to be happy. As someone who's already traded out of that truck I simply want you to be aware of what you may be getting yourself into. After all, I've been most of the way there and I wasn't thrilled. Cheers.

I'm curious what 20 inch LRE tire (and size) you had. There are some pretty heavy/stiff AT and MT LRE tires. When I hear most of the people complaining about this, they're usually not running a LRE highway all season like the Michelin Defender LTX M/S or Continental TerrainContact H/T with a slightly taller sidewall.

As far as the HDPP rear leaf springs, they are the same number of leaves as the Max Tow package rear leaf springs (3 leaves). I believe the effective spring rate is approximately 10-12% higher. In fact, the difference between the HDPP rear leaf springs is about 27 lbs/in higher than the Max Tow rear leaf springs. The Max Tow rear leaf springs are about 27lbs/in higher than the basic/standard (2 leaf) leaf springs.

 

[Popplemer]

I'm curious what 20 inch LRE tire (and size) you had. There are some pretty heavy/stiff AT and MT LRE tires. When I hear most of the people complaining about this, they're usually not running a LRE highway all season like the Michelin Defender LTX M/S or Continental TerrainContact H/T with a slightly taller sidewall.

As far as the HDPP rear leaf springs, they are the same number of leaves as the Max Tow package rear leaf springs (3 leaves). I believe the effective spring rate is approximately 10-12% higher. In fact, the difference between the HDPP rear leaf springs is about 27 lbs/in higher than the Max Tow rear leaf springs. The Max Tow rear leaf springs are about 27lbs/in higher than the basic/standard (2 leaf) leaf springs.

They were indeed a bit much (Nitto Recon Grapplers) LT265/60/20. All I can speak of is my experience. I don't want to talk you out of what you want, I simply want you to know my experience. What's a non compliant ride to me might be fine for you. I drive commercial trucks daily and frankly I don't want to be tossed around in my personal vehicle after working hours. I have weight in my truck at all times, you may do more towing. Can't do an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Unicorn]

I wish you could apply the HDPP to all trims (and even to 2024+ F150s).

I'm seriously consider retrofitting the HDPP rear leaf springs onto a (future) 2024 F150 Platinum along with Load Range E highway all season tires for a better towing experience. (I know it will NOT increase your LEGAL towing limit because what's printed on the data/trailering plate is final.)

I'm not looking to overload the truck either, but I figure it would be able to handle a 7-8k flat tilt bed car trailer (to include car) better.

FYI, the HDPP has a whole lot more than an additional leaf spring:

- Frame: HDPP gets the 0.11" frame stock compared to 0.10" for heavier non-HDPP trucks and 0.087" for lighter F 150s (most of the 2.7EB trucks)
- Front coil: stiffer than any non-HDPP truck but the same front axle rating (3800 pounds) due to some other limitation

- Rear leaves: 3+1 spring pack rated at 4800 pounds instead of the 2+1 for all other weight ratings (4050 [2018 MaxTow], 3800 [most 3.5EB/5.0 trucks], 3300 [most 2.7 trucks])

- Rear axle: 9.75HD axle (9.75B on axle sticker) rated at 4800 pounds and with the electronic locking 3.73 gears. The 9.75 on most 3.5EB (including Max tow) is a lighter-duty variant and the 8.8 on many non-3.5EB trucks is lighter yet.

- Shocks: Heavier duty shocks than any non-HDPP F150

- Wheels: 18” silver aluminum heavy-duty payload package wheels. Slightly heavier than non-HDPP wheels (rated at 2275 pounds)

- LT 265/70 18 AT tires

- 36-gallon fuel tank

- Auxiliary Transmission oil cooler

 

[HammaMan]

FYI, the HDPP has a whole lot more than an additional leaf spring:

- Frame: (Varies)
- Front coil: (Same size as diesel / powerboost, AA vs VV)
- Rear leaves: (Same as max tow + 11% stiffer deflection rate)
- Rear axle: 9.75HD axle (max tow package axle)
- Shocks: (same as other 7klb+ GVWR)
- Wheels: 18” (all of the 18s and 20s are sufficient up to 9klbs)
- LT 265/70 18 AT tires
- 36-gallon fuel tank
- Auxiliary Transmission oil cooler (all trucks have same trans cooler config, sans police/ raptor)

HDPP doesn't come with as much as you think it does. Very marginal benefits here and there. There's a reason why it's limited to base trims. The PB's frame is the strongest yet still under-rated. The max tow axle is a mess right now breaking bolts. Then there's the fragile 4WD system w/ the F150s popping up. The last thing I'd do today is max out an F150 in an overlanding / camping configuration that takes you far from people. Best have a sat phone on-hand.

 

[Polo08816]

They were indeed a bit much (Nitto Recon Grapplers) LT265/60/20. All I can speak of is my experience. I don't want to talk you out of what you want, I simply want you to know my experience. What's a non compliant ride to me might be fine for you. I drive commercial trucks daily and frankly I don't want to be tossed around in my personal vehicle after working hours. I have weight in my truck at all times, you may do more towing. Can't do an apples to oranges comparison.

I looked those up and they're slightly heavier than a LRE Michelin Defender LTX M/S2 in 275/70/18 with ~3" less sidewall.

I'm used to slightly stiffer springs on all my cars. For example, on my F25 X3 35i, I have BMW Sport Springs that are not available in the US market paired with Bilstein B6 struts/shocks. On my F30 335i RWD, I have BMW M Performance Suspension Kit with matching struts/stocks that came in the kit. On my 2008 Subaru Legacy GT, I have Swift springs with Bilstein B8 struts/shocks. I'm used to springs that are about 10-20% stiffer than the stock springs as long as it has a strut/shock that is also valved appropriately.

 

[Polo08816]

FYI, the HDPP has a whole lot more than an additional leaf spring:

- Frame: HDPP gets the 0.11" frame stock compared to 0.10" for heavier non-HDPP trucks and 0.087" for lighter F 150s (most of the 2.7EB trucks)
- Front coil: stiffer than any non-HDPP truck but the same front axle rating (3800 pounds) due to some other limitation

- Rear leaves: 3+1 spring pack rated at 4800 pounds instead of the 2+1 for all other weight ratings (4050 [2018 MaxTow], 3800 [most 3.5EB/5.0 trucks], 3300 [most 2.7 trucks])

- Rear axle: 9.75HD axle (9.75B on axle sticker) rated at 4800 pounds and with the electronic locking 3.73 gears. The 9.75 on most 3.5EB (including Max tow) is a lighter-duty variant and the 8.8 on many non-3.5EB trucks is lighter yet.

- Shocks: Heavier duty shocks than any non-HDPP F150

- Wheels: 18” silver aluminum heavy-duty payload package wheels. Slightly heavier than non-HDPP wheels (rated at 2275 pounds)

- LT 265/70 18 AT tires

- 36-gallon fuel tank

- Auxiliary Transmission oil cooler

- Frame: There's nothing anyone can do about the frame for a 2024 at this point. I'm also not really concerned about it. The frame should not be a mode of failure if the vehicle is loaded appropriately.

- Front coil: I believe the spring rate is similar to the Bilstein 6112 spring rate.

- Rear leaves: Are you sure the HDPP is a 3+1 spring pack? Ford's literature seems to indicate it is the same number of leaves as a Max Tow package.

- Rear axle: 3.73 is nice. I wish you could option on trucks outside of the PB and HDPP versions.

- Shocks: I plan on replacing the struts/shocks with the Bilstein 6112/5160 combo. I think this would be superior to any factory strut/shock setup.

- Wheels: what I've found is that most quality wheels are limited by the # of lugs they are designed for.

- Aux transmission cooler: Is this the same design as the F150 Police Responder and Raptors?

 

[JExpedition07]

The steel body (11-16) super duties C-Channel frame had a yield strength of 37,000 psi, which is significantly lower than ours at 49,300. Those frames never break, and it was not a limitation for payload.

Frames have become a marketing ploy, every tractor trailer and box truck uses a C-channel so it flexes. Boxed Frames are SO over-rated. The drains clog, they rust from the inside out, and then crack because they have no flex like a C-channel. Any frame shop will tell you they rarely EVER need to weld a C-channel frame. The GM’s and Rams with the boxed frames constantly crack and need plates welded on up here in NY. I’d actually prefer less yield strangth and an open C. No drains to clog and they don’t rust out.

Unless you’re overlanding that frame is never going to be a bottleneck

 

[Unicorn]

- Frame: There's nothing anyone can do about the frame for a 2024 at this point. I'm also not really concerned about it. The frame should not be a mode of failure if the vehicle is loaded appropriately.

- Front coil: I believe the spring rate is similar to the Bilstein 6112 spring rate.

- Rear leaves: Are you sure the HDPP is a 3+1 spring pack? Ford's literature seems to indicate it is the same number of leaves as a Max Tow package.

- Rear axle: 3.73 is nice. I wish you could option on trucks outside of the PB and HDPP versions.

- Shocks: I plan on replacing the struts/shocks with the Bilstein 6112/5160 combo. I think this would be superior to any factory strut/shock setup.

- Wheels: what I've found is that most quality wheels are limited by the # of lugs they are designed for.

- Aux transmission cooler: Is this the same design as the F150 Police Responder and Raptors?

I just checked my rear leaf springs: it‘s a 2+1 pack (my mistake was to take a brochure description…)

Cooling capability is « supposedly » enhanced in the HDPP. I couldn’t find if it is identical to other models you mentioned.

Many components can be changed to improve a truck capability. Luckily I found a new 2022 HDPP last year. I didn’t have to modify it or change components in order to carry a camper everywhere. Being below max GVWR, the truck behaves perfectly.

 

[Calson]

For your intended use it would be best to sell your F-150 and buy a F-350 or F-450 to use as your base platform. I would go with a F-450 CC truck and have a flat bed installed which greatly increases the cubic and weight aspects of the payload.

Many people have done this and then mounted a cabover camper and used the space under the overhang to have accessible storage for gear. One usually gets a larger factory fuel tank with these trucks as a bonus and the $-450 has a very good turning radius as pickup trucks go.

https://highwayproducts.com/custom/flatbed/camper-flatbed/

 

[Popplemer]

For your intended use it would be best to sell your F-150 and buy a F-350 or F-450 to use as your base platform. I would go with a F-450 CC truck and have a flat bed installed which greatly increases the cubic and weight aspects of the payload.

Many people have done this and then mounted a cabover camper and used the space under the overhang to have accessible storage for gear. One usually gets a larger factory fuel tank with these trucks as a bonus and the $-450 has a very good turning radius as pickup trucks go.

https://highwayproducts.com/custom/flatbed/camper-flatbed/

I can confirm that at least the F450 reg cab 10 ft utility dump at my job steers far better than my F150. I am also of the opinion that the only reason to stay with a 150 for an overland build is to get the powerboost. Without that why stick with a 150? Especially when payload is of concern?

 

[Pedaldude]

The fully boxed frames are a gimmick to game the CAFE standards and also get the preposterous towing figures that they seem to need to increase every year.

The HDPP was available on Lariat but had become increasingly hamstrung until it was abandoned altogether. It seemed like they were just keeping it on in 2023 to keep the maximum payload brochure numbers. The problem I feel is it basically became a secret menu item, that since the dealership doesn’t order them and they are almost always special ordered even as a fleet item; nobody wanted the poor value that the 2023 XL offered.

My 2021 XLT would have been cheaper as a Lariat while being better equipped but the XLT is the highest trim for the regular cab. I had to spend the better part of a Sunday afternoon tearing apart the front end just to install LED headlights because they weren’t available at any cost.

The HDPP was also the cheapest way to get several options when I ordered in 2020 before they ‘adjusted’ the price of the Max Tow axle. The one thing that I am disappointed with is the low front GAWR. It definitely fills a niche and helped bridge the capabilities of the F-150 with the Superduty but still keeping the feel and some of the manners of a half ton truck. I spent an entire day with a very patient salesman and we even had to fill up on gas a few times because I wanted to drive some of my familiar roads with half a dozen F-150s and three Superduty trucks instead of the usual spin around the block. Two of the SDs were decent but the third one was completely fucked and the toe was set wrong on it, so it was really squirrely on the highway and I could feel and smell the burning rubber from the front end. As much as I love the solid front axle of my old Range Rover Classic; after going down the Superduty rabbit hole after that one bad experience, I decided that I didn’t want to have to rebuild my front end at random intervals in case I was unfortunate enough to get a truck that liked to wobble at speed on the highway.

The biggest problem I had with going Superduty is dealing with the solid front axle and its associated problems, the shitty ride quality as well as the increasingly poor MPG and heavier weights for everything. Mission creep is a real thing for the overlanding crowd. Why stop at an F450, maybe get an Unimog or a surplus 6X6? It gets to the point where it’s nice to be able to lift a wheel and tire and change a flat or two if you’re especially unlucky without feeling like you’re never going to want to do it ever again, or feeling a sense of accomplishment and adventure.

The GVWR is the GVWR and you can safely load it to the maximum for the entire life of the truck. Which pretty much describes every service body truck. Everything is going to wear out faster but it’s the same with individual driving style as well. Just be happy that the F-150 isn’t a Tacoma; where you barely get a payload to begin with. All the Tacoma and Jeep forums talk about how much they can safely go over GVWR when discussing overlanding.

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