7.2KW ProPower for Off-Grid Cabin

[HammaMan]

Better pictures. From the inverter my two hots go into the main 60 amp breaker, neutral (blue) into the neutral bus and ground into ground screw. Is that screw on the right by my neutral bar the bond screw? How can I unbound temporarily to see if pro power will work.

Okay, I see an issue in the panel. It looks like you have a ground of sorts coming into the panel on the bottom right side except that it plugs into the neutral bus. The neutral area would be isolated in the box properly if it didn't have the large ground coming into the box and then joining the neutral. That's a mess. The neutral bus should be floating and all grounds / ground rod / solar panel grounds connected on same busbar in the panel.

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[Yves]

It almost look like your bonded screw would be the one at the lower right. Instead of touching that one, I would, for a test only, unplug the ground coming from the l14-30. Where is the l14-30? connected to

 

[OT66]

Okay, I see an issue in the panel. It looks like you have a ground of sorts coming into the panel on the bottom right side except that it plugs into the neutral bus. The neutral area would be isolated in the box properly if it didn't have the large ground coming into the box and then joining the neutral. That's a mess. The neutral bus should be floating and all grounds / ground rod / solar panel grounds connected on same busbar in the panel.

I just crawled under the cabin and that big stranded wire in the neutral bus goes below the cabin and is grounded there

 

[daemonic3]

I can't wait to hear how this saga ends!

How long without a reply from the OP before we call 911?

 

[OT66]

I can't wait to hear how this saga ends!

How long without a reply from the OP before we call 911?

Lol! Dealing with a bush fire between cabins most of day. Maybe a sign not to mess with electrical I dunno. I’ll post update in a bit

 

[OT66]

Ok, here are some pictures of my setup. I don't know what other info. to provide. I've gotten so many responses on this thread that while it's been helpful to learn and it's appreciated it, I don't have a clear answer of what to do and am more confused than when I made the post.

 

[Yves]

My son has a Firman generator and it has a bonded neutral. The F150 7.2KW is bonded neutral with GFI portion which I believe make the difference

 

[Hullguy]

The grounds ARE already connected as they're bonded AT THE INVERTER to the neutral. People are looking at the problem inverse. Everywhere the neutral and ground connect at the primary power source, and it's only needed ONCE else you have a loop (as in what's already occurring in this installation when using the generator). If you believe that a truck sitting on 6" of rubber is actually providing a ground, I've got a bridge to sell ya.

Stop looking at the generator as a tool connected to a plug. IT IS UTILITY, UTILITY DOESN'T PROVIDE GROUND.

I'm not getting into the theory of why this is, just understand that what I've directed to do is precisely how systems are wired. I've designed several power systems. This is safe -- the neutral is the return of power to the source of generation where bonding occurs. The inverter is where the primary neutral bonding occurs, this cord's ground serves no purpose, at all, period, when connected to either the truck, or the generator with neutral bond.

It’s a separately derived system under the NEC. Meaning the neutral can only be bonded in one location. The Powerboost is also considered a separately derived system. You can only have one location bonding a neutral at a time. You might have been told to hack a system in but it is wrong

 

[Gros Ventre]

The issue is that the Truck's system detects the neutral-ground bonding inside the house and interprets it as a ground fault and then shuts down the generator. The truly simple method of fixing this is to convert the truck to a floating neutral generator. I've inquired about this thru my dealer and Ford has chosen to ignore this.

 

[Snakebitten]

Just a question, because I easily get confused on this subject....

So is the reason that the Powerboost generator is not an issue for all of us using it for powering our tiny houses on wheels (RV's) is because we are human transfer switches when we disconnect the RV from shore power and then connect to the Powerboost?

In other words, the RV is never connected to both, so it happily just accepts and sees either as a legitimate grid?

But if the answer to both questions is yes, then how do those big-time boondocking folks with battery banks and solar panels have it setup where they are using the Powerboost as a battery charger, so to speak?

I ask because this off-grid cabin is the same thing, minus the wheels. At least in my head it is.

 

[OT66]

Ok, here are some pictures of my setup. I don't know what other info. to provide. I've gotten so many responses on this thread that while it's been helpful to learn and it's appreciated it, I don't have a clear answer of what to do and am more confused than when I made the post.

Can anyone comment on this .. Is my panel bonded neutral by having the ground wire connected to the neutral bus? If I were to disconnect that big ground wire and connect it to a ground lug on the panel instead, and then run a jumper from the neutral bus to the bonding screw, I'd achieve the same thing, is that true?? What if I disconnect that ground from the neutral bus, and then turn on my Pro Power? I'll be neutral bonded at the truck and it will probably work? Would it be safe? Once the truck is turned off and I want to run from solar/battery power, what would happen if I don't bond the panel again? It would work but be unsafe? Or it wouldn't work at all? I know a transfer switch will do this, but I don't have main hydro power, I'm not going to backfeed a line and hurt anyone. Can't I get a much simpler style of switch that will just unbond my panel when I want to use the truck and then bond it again when I want to use battery/solar? A quicker alternative to manually bonding and unbonding at the panel?

 

[Yves]

Just a question, because I easily get confused on this subject....

So is the reason that the Powerboost generator is not an issue for all of us using it for powering our tiny houses on wheels (RV's) is because we are human transfer switches when we disconnect the RV from shore power and then connect to the Powerboost?

In other words, the RV is never connected to both, so it happily just accepts and sees either as a legitimate grid?

But if the answer to both questions is yes, then how do those big-time boondocking folks with battery banks and solar panels have it setup where they are using the Powerboost as a battery charger, so to speak?

I ask because this off-grid cabin is the same thing, minus the wheels. At least in my head it is.

I may take a chance as I don't know how the inside of a RV is wired.... One of the difference is you don't have a ground rod into earth with your RV and his cabin as one which is connected to the neutral bus in his panel. One thing that I would like you to do is to take the resistance (ohm) between the neutral and the ground. You can do this via any plug in your RV

 

[Yves]

Can anyone comment on this .. Is my panel bonded neutral by having the ground wire connected to the neutral bus? If I were to disconnect that big ground wire and connect it to a ground lug on the panel instead, and then run a jumper from the neutral bus to the bonding screw, I'd achieve the same thing, is that true?? What if I disconnect that ground from the neutral bus, and then turn on my Pro Power? I'll be neutral bonded at the truck and it will probably work? Would it be safe? Once the truck is turned off and I want to run from solar/battery power, what would happen if I don't bond the panel again? It would work but be unsafe? Or it wouldn't work at all? I know a transfer switch will do this, but I don't have main hydro power, I'm not going to backfeed a line and hurt anyone. Can't I get a much simpler style of switch that will just unbond my panel when I want to use the truck and then bond it again when I want to use battery/solar? A quicker alternative to manually bonding and unbonding at the panel?

It seems like the work was done by "some electrician". They may have done the bonding in the inverter as in my own opinion the way it is done in your panel it is wrong. So even if you unplug the groung in your panel you may achieve nothing. What I would do if it was my situation is to unplug the ground coming from the L14-30 going to the inverter. At least if this work you would know the 7.2KW can work with your system. At the end I would put the ground back to the inverter.

After bring a multimeter and take some measurement in your panel.

1- Measure between the ground bar and the neutral bar, you should have 0 ohm
2- Unplug the ground between the ground rod and your neutral bus, if you still have 0 ohm then your electrical system is bonded somewhere else.
3- If at step 2 you still have 0 ohm, then I think you should move the ground rod to the ground bar but don't connect the ground to the neutral bar as a system should be bonded at one location.
4-If at step 2 you don't have 0 ohm, then I think you should move the ground rod to the ground bar then run a wire from the ground to the neutral bar.

These are the steps that I would do if I was in your situation. Again I'm not an electrician and I can't take any of the responsibilities. I would like the comments from @Gros Ventre and @Hullguy as they seems to be a lot more knowledgeable about different codes and regulations

 

[HammaMan]

Your panel is neutral bonded, but your grounding isn't done to code. Your generator and truck are also neutral bonded. The generator's lack of GFCI means you're double bonded when using it (and it works). Your inverter requires neutral bond in the panel.

99% of people back-feeding their home (that have utility w/ manual gen failover) have double neutral bonded systems without issue. The issue arises when you introduce the GFCI as utility. Your situation is more unique than most due to you NOT having a permanent utility.

Code is written in the blood of lives lost due to improper installation causing fire / electrocution. For your system to work you'd I'd suggest floating the ground inbound from the truck at a separate junction box like the scribble diagram suggests....

Speaking of improper box connection, replace the blues with whites or wrap white tape around them. Neutrals should be marked with double white bands.

 

[Snakebitten]

I may take a chance as I don't know how the inside of a RV is wired.... One of the difference is you don't have a ground rod into earth with your RV and his cabin as one which is connected to the neutral bus in his panel. One thing that I would like you to do is to take the resistance (ohm) between the neutral and the ground. You can do this via any plug in your RV

Would be happy to, but when the RV is on shore power (30Amp RV cable), it is grounded in the shore power panel, and the grounding rod that it is wired to. Right?

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