Ordering-has Ford lost it?

[Mtnman1]

It's due to leasing the truck instead of buying it. If you want to keep leasing similar trucks, its getting harder to do so.
if you look at lease vs buy with no money down. Buying is about 2x the monthly cost, which makes most people want to lease.

If you have no money down, you cannot afford a new vehicle - lease or not.

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[Mtnman1]

Half the stuff in the 150 is a convenience. Lets see what options exhisted in 1975 when the 150 was introduced:
https://www.blueovaltech.com/history/1975-ford-trucks.php#google_vignette

Thats awesome. Good times....

 

[Larrymoe]

If someone made a 1992 F150 XL with no miles and brand new, I'd have paid more than the 46k I did for my XL I bought last year.

Alas, they don't.

 

[roadPilot]

if you look at lease vs buy with no money down. Buying is about 2x the monthly cost, which makes most people want to lease.

Yes, you'll pay a higher monthly payment when buying, but if you buy a truck and pay for it over N years, you'll have an asset at the end of N years. If you lease a couple of trucks during that same N years, you'll have nothing at the end of that N years.

Beyond that, I know FAR too many people who convinced themselves that leasing would be cheaper, but they ended up paying FAR MORE than they thought they would because they went over their mileage, Many ending up buying the car out at the end of the lease (often at a loss, as the car had depreciated more than the predicted contractual amount) because it was cheaper than paying for the mileage, while others had to pay a hefty amount in over miles fees to get rid of it.

Unless you don't care how much you spend and you just want to drive a new vehicle every 2-3 years, leasing is a poor financial decision 99% of the time.

 

[roadPilot]

Don't want to get too deep into it here, but I understand how the cost of inflation can raise the cost of trucks. But when wages don't climb along with it, and cost of living goes up, something at some point has to give.

No offense, but that's a poor argument -- expecting Ford to cover the cost of inflation is not reasonable. It's no different than expecting the grocer to arbitrarily reduce the price of a dozen eggs when inflation and the market has driven it up to $9 a dozen, just because your wages didn't keep up with inflation.

 

[HammaMan]

Now we get mad when our phone wont start my truck, or read tire PSI, or my next oil change.

I bought a STX, don't use the hold, nor lane assist.
I can turn on my own wiper blades when it rains. I can hold my foot on the brake at stoplights, why, because I always have.
Sure some things are nice and I love em, but we've come a LONG ways from the old days.

That's true, but most people's expectations are pretty simple in that they really only expect the vehicle to do the things it was sold to them specifically capable of doing. The issue here is that there's feature regressions while the price still continues to climb. Fact is ford is trimming rather trivial features from their cost perspective, while charging more for the rest of it. Quite a few of those features are really cheap too. The R&D is done / has been done / doesn't change. For 2024, the 301 XLT came with more standard tech features than pre 24 lariat lows w/ 360 cameras, lane centering, and 12" IPC (21-23 12" IPC is more of a sidegrade IMO vs 8"). Features dealers didn't even bother to add on blue label 500/501 trucks, or in the case of the IPC, wasn't an option.

 

[{tpc}]

No offense, but that's a poor argument -- expecting Ford to cover the cost of inflation is not reasonable. It's no different than expecting the grocer to arbitrarily reduce the price of a dozen eggs when inflation and the market has driven it up to $9 a dozen, just because your wages didn't keep up with inflation.

You know what, your correct. I'll stay out of it, truly I'm way out of my depth. I'll leave it to you all to sort out.

 

[roadPilot]

What of the upcoming tariffs? How will that affect new old stock? Will is be like the gas station, where if the price of oil increases, the cost of gas goes up almost immediately, even though the gas in the tank is the same gas that was there yesterday?

Prices @ the gas station are NOT based on how much it cost the station to buy the gas they already have in the ground. Prices are based on how much it will cost to REFILL those same tanks, once empty, in order to keep selling gas.

If prices were only based on how much it cost to buy the product they already have in the ground, they run the risk of running out of capital to buy more fuel when wholesale prices go up. That is why prices go UP immediately, even though there is a bunch of product in the ground that they already paid for.

Think about it this way:

Let's say your local gas station has 8,000 gallons of fuel delivered at $1 per gallon wholesale. They paid $8,000 for that fuel. So, they start selling it for $1.10 per gallon.

While that gas is in the ground, something happens (e.g., a refinery fire causes supply to go down while demand stays steady) and the wholesale price for gas goes up to $1.30 per gallon. That means the next 8,000 gallons will cost them $10,400 instead of $8,000.

If they had kept the price of the original 8,000 gallons at $1.10 a gallon (what they paid for it plus small margin), they would have grossed $8,800. With the wholesale price now at $1.30 a gallon, they have to come up with an extra $1,600 to buy that SAME 8,000 gallons of gas in order to be able to keep selling gas.

Now to break even plus that small 10% margin on the second load, they start selling at $1.15 per gallon.

Then ANOTHER price wholesale price increase happens. So they have to come up with THOUSANDS MORE in order to buy the next 8,000 gallons.

If this keeps up, that gas station runs the risk of not having enough capital to refill their tanks ... and the station goes out of business.

 

[roadPilot]

What of the upcoming tariffs?

Oh, and as far as the potential upcoming tariffs are concerned: These tariffs are not intended to be used indefinitely nor to generate revenue, per se. They are intended to be used as a tool to get other countries to change behavior.

Will American pay more for products? Yes, but only temporarily, as China, Mexico, Canada, and all the other nations taking advantage of the US will eventually change their behavior, and the tariffs will be lifted.

Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop letting people cross your country and enter into the US illegally.
Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop letting the cartels operate and send drugs into the US.
Don't want to pay the tariff? US companies, move jobs BACK the US and make the products here.
Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop blocking or limiting the sale of US made products in your nation while enjoying the privilege of selling your products here.

All they have to do is change their behavior and they will not be subject to tariffs. But if they don't, then tariffs will increase the cost to sell foreign made products here -- which means the revenue streams for foreign companies (and US companies with foreign manufacturing) - and that country's GDP - will suffer.

 

[HammaMan]

Indeed, stations will immediately raise a price the second they catch wind of a price hike. Price hikes are pretty much the same day from most competently run stations while they typically only start to drop prices when competition requires it. I get my gas from a petroleum company in town from the same pump the owner's friends and family does and they'll adjust pricing as new stock is received. They're really close to one of the colonial terminals to boot so costs are pretty low. 93e0 directly from them is basically the same cost as walmart's premium fuel cost which is often one of the lowest. When we were running the farm, they'd deliver ORD and 87 at the same time (no cost delivery) and gas was ~10% cheaper than the 4 closest gas stations. Cost about $130 to build a little 110g pump station. That was hella convient.

 

[{tpc}]

Oh, and as far as the potential upcoming tariffs are concerned: These tariffs are not intended to be used indefinitely nor to generate revenue, per se. They are intended to be used as a tool to get other countries to change behavior.

Will American pay more for products? Yes, but only temporarily, as China, Mexico, Canada, and all the other nations taking advantage of the US will eventually change their behavior, and the tariffs will be lifted.

Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop letting people cross your country and enter into the US illegally.
Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop letting the cartels operate and send drugs into the US.
Don't want to pay the tariff? US companies, move jobs BACK the US and make the products here.
Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop blocking or limiting the sale of US made products in your nation while enjoying the privilege of selling your products here.

All they have to do is change their behavior and they will not be subject to tariffs. But if they don't, then tariffs will increase the cost to sell foreign made products here -- which means the revenue streams for foreign companies (and US companies with foreign manufacturing) - and that country's GDP - will suffer.

I already said I was staying out of it.

 

[{tpc}]

Oh, and as far as the potential upcoming tariffs are concerned: These tariffs are not intended to be used indefinitely nor to generate revenue, per se. They are intended to be used as a tool to get other countries to change behavior.

Will American pay more for products? Yes, but only temporarily, as China, Mexico, Canada, and all the other nations taking advantage of the US will eventually change their behavior, and the tariffs will be lifted.

Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop letting people cross your country and enter into the US illegally.
Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop letting the cartels operate and send drugs into the US.
Don't want to pay the tariff? US companies, move jobs BACK the US and make the products here.
Don't want to pay the tariff? Stop blocking or limiting the sale of US made products in your nation while enjoying the privilege of selling your products here.

All they have to do is change their behavior and they will not be subject to tariffs. But if they don't, then tariffs will increase the cost to sell foreign made products here -- which means the revenue streams for foreign companies (and US companies with foreign manufacturing) - and that country's GDP - will suffer.

Once again, staying out of it.

 

[Larrymoe]

Thank you for continually posting to let us know you're staying out of it.

 

[roadPilot]

Indeed, stations will immediately raise a price the second they catch wind of a price hike. Price hikes are pretty much the same day from most competently run stations while they typically only start to drop prices when competition requires it. I get my gas from a petroleum company in town from the same pump the owner's friends and family does and they'll adjust pricing as new stock is received. They're really close to one of the colonial terminals to boot so costs are pretty low. 93e0 directly from them is basically the same cost as walmart's premium fuel cost which is often one of the lowest. When we were running the farm, they'd deliver ORD and 87 at the same time (no cost delivery) and gas was ~10% cheaper than the 4 closest gas stations. Cost about $130 to build a little 110g pump station. That was hella convient.

Yes, they have to raise the price immediately, because there is no way to predict that the future wholesale prices will do, nor when.

I spent two years working for a downstream petroleum distributor. All we did was purchase fuel (and futures) and deliver it from the rack to the customers - everyone from gas stations/convenience stores to large factories to airports industrial companies to big utility companies to farms to unit filling. Did that across ~38 states. We owned a rack right next to one of the largest airports in the US. People would be amazed at what they DON'T know about (energy) petroleum products and their distribution.

 

[roadPilot]

Thank you for continually posting to let us know you're staying out of it.

Aww, was that {tpc} (or whatever his username was)?

He must have blocked me because he can't handle the truth. LOL.

Another one bites the dust! What a troll.

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