B&O Speaker Upgrade Recommendation

[HammaMan]

Thanks JJ. Was it this one? https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/b-o-unleashed-finally-fixed-for-329.21763/

Did you keep your fronts and the rest of the speakers the same?

Re: Amp, I think that is one of the main differences between the B&O 8 and B&O 18. On mine (8 speaker) the four doors are powered off the DSP but on the 18 they're powered off the ACM.

All of the speakers on the 8 channel except for the tweeters are on the rear amp. The "IP speaker" is the dash center. Not much advice from the 18/14 speaker system carries over.

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[JJSnell]

@techobrien Yes it was....

Admittedly not well versed in the 8 speaker trucks, but if that is the case, you can get a Zen DSP. They are pricey but depending on how much you love your music it might be worth it.
Really disheartening how Ford has clipped wings of some of us old school, "cap and coil" stereo builders.
Just today was talking to my brother as he was installing a new Pioneer head unit from Crutchfield in his Toyota.
Oh to have that freedom without dropping $6,000 +, would be so nice to have...

 

[techobrien]

Start with the speakers, it's an easy first move focusing on efficiency.

What would you consider to be high enough efficiency running off the B&O Amp? It seems like as you go up in quality / performance the sensitivity goes down, which makes sense with stiffer materials and bigger magnets. It feels like I should be able to get away with something mid-grade like the Kicker KS / JL C2's / Polk DB but that's just a gut feeling and I don't have data to back that up.

Examples, high sensitivity to low:

JL C1 6x9 @ 94 dB
Infinity Reference 6x9 @ 94 dB (actually 3-ohm)

Infinity Reference 6.5 @ 93 dB (actually 3-ohm)
Hertz DCX 6x9 @ 93 dB
Hertz DCX 6.5 / 6.75 @ 93 dB
JL C1 6.5 @ 93 dB
JL C2 6x9 @ 93 dB
Polk DB 6x9 @ 93 dB

Polk DB 6.5 @ 92 dB
Kicker KS 6x9 @ 92 dB
Kicker KS 6.5 / 6.75 @ 92 dB
Morel Maximo Ultra 6x9 @ 92 dB

Morel Maximo Ultra 6.5 @ 91 dB
JL C2 6.5 @ 91 dB
Morel Maximo 6.5 @ 91 dB

JL C3 6.5 @ 90 dB
Morel Maximo 6x9 @ 90 dB

 

[HammaMan]

Go listen to the C1s tweeters to see if you like them at a car audio shop. You may or may not like the aluminum dome tweeters, but the efficiency of those speakers is hard to beat. We're going to be putting them in the 24 non BO F150 in another month. For the dash speaker I'd suggest finding a less efficient speaker just to quiet it down -- 89db or so. You just want its 'fill' capability and don't actually want a discrete audible channel. In fact I'd probably just leave the factory speaker in there for now.

The 1" C3's size specs are perfect for replacing the factory tweeter location. With the .75", you may retain the factory cover and use the surface mount cup to place it down in there and hot glue around the perimeter to hold it in place combined with the spring clip. W/ the 1" I used the flush mount (not sure if the .2" really makes a difference on the factory config) with spring clip augmented with some black hot-glue to really hold its place perfectly. Just recently saw someone's flush mount that was too big and looks like poo.

Really when it comes to speakers it's hard to beat a demo room

 

[techobrien]

Go listen to the C1s tweeters to see if you like them at a car audio shop. You may or may not like the aluminum dome tweeters, but the efficiency of those speakers is hard to beat. We're going to be putting them in the 24 non BO F150 in another month. For the dash speaker I'd suggest finding a less efficient speaker just to quiet it down -- 89db or so. You just want its 'fill' capability and don't actually want a discrete audible channel. In fact I'd probably just leave the factory speaker in there for now.

The 1" C3's size specs are perfect for replacing the factory tweeter location. With the .75", you may retain the factory cover and use the surface mount cup to place it down in there and hot glue around the perimeter to hold it in place combined with the spring clip. W/ the 1" I used the flush mount (not sure if the .2" really makes a difference on the factory config) with spring clip augmented with some black hot-glue to really hold its place perfectly. Just recently saw someone's flush mount that was too big and looks like poo.

Really when it comes to speakers it's hard to beat a demo room

I'll try to go find a showroom to listen to some different models. Thanks for the tips on the C1.

Re: Tweeter, it looks like the C3 1" has a pretty flat grille. Are you saying a 3/4" C2 would fit behind the factory Tweeter grill (as seen in the post below) whereas a 1" C3 would need to be surface mount and replace the grille? Or could the C3 also be mounted behind the factory grille?

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/tweeter-mounting.16891/

 

[HammaMan]

I'll try to go find a showroom to listen to some different models. Thanks for the tips on the C1.

Re: Tweeter, it looks like the C3 1" has a pretty flat grille. Are you saying a 3/4" C2 would fit behind the factory Tweeter grill (as seen in the post below) whereas a 1" C3 would need to be surface mount and replace the grille? Or could the C3 also be mounted behind the factory grille?

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/tweeter-mounting.16891/

After checking again the C1 and C2 should be a perfect flush mount fit like I did my C3s. C3s are 4 ohm and pretty bright, I believe I've got nearly -4db pulled out of the driver's side and about -2db from the passenger side. Could be a bit much but the factory treble control could possibly turn them down a hair. The C2s are 8 ohm tweeters and also silk dome so with a 6.5 it may be a better fit than going 6x9 given the power levels.

Here's the final result, pretty much OEM look from all angles, no gaps / etc, but I did take care with pushing it in firmly while using hot glue on its flush mount mounting cup. The tweeter protector is on the back side of the panel. I used wago clip connectors for fast install / removal (can't find pics of it)

Basically 1 per wire to slip into the wire I've got run to them so the A pillar trim is very easy to go in and out when needed. I have some crazy sticky double sided tape holding these in. Pulled the trim out after they were in 14 months and it was just as easy as I'd hoped for.

 

[aaexpert]

Techo.... you are wayyyyyy over-analyzing specs. and trying to use miniscule data results to get only the slightest change (not improvement) over the oem speakers by just swapping out speakers alone. Swapping out just speakers will change the sounds to be cleaner/brighter by about 10% (which is noticeable) However, this is like swapping out just wheels and expecting better 'performance'....just because they are lighter and shiny doesn't give you more horsepower or go faster. From experience, you will not get a big difference in performance but they will last longer and have the potential to work far better if you amplify them.
As an audio shop owner, listening to speakers in a demo wall is a waste of time because the speaker cavity is not what is in your vehicle. ANY speaker (aftermarket) is going to work superior to an OEM by 10-100% more, but ONLY IF YOU AMPLIFY THEM !(and NOT with the oem amp) If your budget is only 'x' dollars than go buy based on that (but those hi efficiency Kickers...kinda suck btw unless you like no low end) or do it the right way and buy great quality speakers first, THEN go buy an amplifier later so they can perform to their potential. A $100 speaker or a $1000 speaker is going to sound too similar if you only give it the same (oem)power to play thru it.

 

[fetoma]

Upgrading your speakers without adding an amp is a complete waste of money because the factory B&O amp is hot garbage, and cannot drive higher quality speakers with the power or clarity they require. You might notice some difference but I'd be very surprised if it weren't just placebo effect. You also can't fix the bass roll-off past volume 15.

If you want good sound out of your system, install whatever speakers are within your budget and get a Kicker KEY200.4 along with the PAC APH-FD02 harness from @SoundsGoodStereo. It will be the best $320 you ever spent on your truck, and the improvement even with the stock speakers will blow your mind. They also have speaker and sound treatment packages.

I don't work for SGS, but them boys have looked after me right proper SEVERAL times and I will always recommend them first for audio!

I would love to see a write up on how you did this.

 

[EcoBeastCA]

I would love to see a write up on how you did this.

Honestly there isn't much to write about if you have the 8-speaker setup. The PAC audio harness plugs require some trimming to fit 21+ trucks, SGS can do it for you. It plugs into the amp on the back wall of the cab, speaker leads connect to the inputs on the KEY, KEY outputs tie back into the harness to feed your speakers. The hardest parts are running power for the KEY, and tuning it till you like the sound. It's a very simple upgrade that makes a huge improvement even with the OEM speakers, which can pound enough bass with the KEY that you might not even want to upgrade the sub.

 

[techobrien]

Techo.... you are wayyyyyy over-analyzing specs. and trying to use miniscule data results to get only the slightest change (not improvement) over the oem speakers by just swapping out speakers alone. Swapping out just speakers will change the sounds to be cleaner/brighter by about 10% (which is noticeable) However, this is like swapping out just wheels and expecting better 'performance'....just because they are lighter and shiny doesn't give you more horsepower or go faster. From experience, you will not get a big difference in performance but they will last longer and have the potential to work far better if you amplify them.
As an audio shop owner, listening to speakers in a demo wall is a waste of time because the speaker cavity is not what is in your vehicle. ANY speaker (aftermarket) is going to work superior to an OEM by 10-100% more, but ONLY IF YOU AMPLIFY THEM !(and NOT with the oem amp) If your budget is only 'x' dollars than go buy based on that (but those hi efficiency Kickers...kinda suck btw unless you like no low end) or do it the right way and buy great quality speakers first, THEN go buy an amplifier later so they can perform to their potential. A $100 speaker or a $1000 speaker is going to sound too similar if you only give it the same (oem)power to play thru it.

That's fair, and I'm an engineer by trade so over-scrutinizing specs is my day job. But I think there are good and bad choices for replacing the stock speakers right? Like you said, without doing a overhaul with amps / DSP / LOC / etc I'm not going to get a whole lot more out of a $1k speaker than a $100 speaker. So then there is a "best bang for the buck" suitable speaker that is going to play nice and maybe in the future with an amp I'd get more legs out of it. Like an 85 dB sensitivity speaker requiring tons of power to drive properly is going to be a poor choice for the stock B&O Amp or even low-power external amps. So then what would be a good choice? I'm just trying to make a good selection based on information available (specs and user experience). I'm not expecting to have a high performing system with perfect SQ or windows-down ear-busting volume so I fully understand I'm not getting that out of just a speaker swap. I also don't want to pick parts that are going to make it sound worse than stock, like make the rear coaxials even quieter than they were or make the front center speaker more prominent than it already is.

I've gotten some really helpful feedback so far like
- Kickers aren't good for mid-low end
- Aluminum tweeters are going to be sharper than silk or other fabric
- Fitment of 3/4" vs 1" tweeters
- Aim for high sensitivity (still a little fuzzy on what "high" means" like >92dB?)
- Center speaker isn't important. Go for a low-sensitivity or unplug it

 

[EcoBeastCA]

I am really interested to know how this obsessing over minutiae turns out for you. Please let us know how much "better" your investment sounds, if and when you ever decide on something. ?

 

[Bob Violence]

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/jl-audio-amp-installed-on-8-speaker-b-o-non-unleashed.22562/

 

[HammaMan]

I am really interested to know how this obsessing over minutiae turns out for you. Please let us know how much "better" your investment sounds, if and when you ever decide on something. ?

I've got over 12hrs of playing with amps and DSPs into the truck with instant / near instant A/B comparisons. He's an engineer and wants the answer to a question that really comes down to opinion. The issue is that he's wanting opinions of the best sound for the $ and at least with tweeters / speaker design, there's a bit of opinion involved in it. Never mind the psychology aspect of spending a day and a grand on something that may sound different, not necessarily better. You can't really A/B a speaker forklift. You can A/B a side at a time and listen from the back seat leaning over the console, and then from each seating position while turning channels on and off if you have the capability (not sure if the factory fader is sufficient for this, it'd be based on assumption without testing).

Vehicles can be tricky --- you're stuck in one corner of it unlike a perfectly arranged room set up for perfect audio. There's also personal preference. Completely flat EQ curves as shown by a computer and preference to the ear itself aren't the same. Different music styles may also warrant different profiles. I've got 4 profiles in my DSP. I'm still considering moving to 9, 10, 11, and 12 channels on my setup.

 

[techobrien]

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/jl-audio-amp-installed-on-8-speaker-b-o-non-unleashed.22562/

Nice writeup. Have you installed the aftermarket speakers yet? What'd you go with?

... The issue is that he's wanting opinions of the best sound for the $ and at least with tweeters / speaker design, there's a bit of opinion involved in it. Never mind the psychology aspect of spending a day and a grand on something that may sound different, not necessarily better. ...

For sure Audio (not even just car audio) is such a subjective topic and everyone has their own tastes. I tried to not ask the question "what sounds best" since there's arguably no single answer to that. Ideally I'd just buy a whole bunch of speaker sets and spend a weekend seeing what I like best or what works best. But that's what forums are for right - brainstorming and getting opinions and feedback from those who have already done what you're trying to do and not making the same mistakes.

 

[rugedraw]

I replaced my front door speakers/a-pillar tweeter with some components (converted from 6x9 to 6.5" with adapters) and added sound deadening only to the area behind the 6.5" driver. Replaced with rear door 6.5" speakers with the same components from the front and added a tweeter to the rear door (also added sound deadening behind the rear door speakers) with in-line filters to block out the mid/lows from the tweeter. All powered by the factory ACM/DSP. It made a noticeable difference right away. The sound stage is not completely dominated by the front anymore; you can actually hear the rear door speakers. I would not say they are much louder, but for sure it sounds better. At max volume with high frequencies, I can hear some clipping coming from the rear speakers (I assume from the tweeters I added), most likely due to them being underpowered since the ACM is pushing both rear mids and tweeters. An amp to power the rear door speakers like @JJSnell did I am sure would help. I am pushing two 12's in an under-seat box and my subs no longer dominate the mids/highs of the OEM system.

With all of that said: I leased this truck three years and one month ago and I ended up buying it at the end of the lease. Had I known I would be keeping it long-term, I would have ripped everything out and gone full aftermarket everything from the get-go.

However, swapping out the crap cardboard-looking FoMoCo speakers in there for something better yielded more than a placebo effect for me. I went with these:

https://www.massiveaudio.com/produc...nent-kit-speakers?_pos=5&_fid=1087def05&_ss=c

I know MA has fallen out of grace with the aftermarket crowd lately, but I have had great experience with their products over the years. Hell, I still have my 8 year old Nano N3 monoblock amp (which I bought used) pushing my subs and it's still thumpin.

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