Highest Supercharged Mileage

[Slyder]

While some what related to this thread I didn't feel it needed a new forum thread, but SPD has released a new catted down-pipe specifically for the 5.0L F150.

2021 - 2024 Ford 5.0L Coyote F-150 Alpha Catted Y Pipe

While not cheap at $2200 it 'could' be a possible alternative, so I reached out to them and asked a few questions, since I'm a future super-charged F150 owner.

This is the reply they gave me, so take it as you will:

We have done a lot of testing on the Alpha cats on both NA and supercharged applications. We have also done extensive emissions testing and flow testing. What the tests have shown is that the Alpha cats will clean the exhaust almost identically to the stock cats but flow close to 1600hp worth of air. With that in mind, as a precaution, we rate the Alpha cats at 1200rwhp safe while still cleaning the exhaust like an OEM cat. There is a reason it took so long to release this product and its because of all the testing we have been doing for the last couple of years.

I 'may' go this route instead and pair it with the MBRP 4" cat-back exhaust that exits behind the rear wheel.

Who's going to be the first guinea pig?

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[Dale B]

Apparently valve overlap. Kind of makes sense. if the exhaust valve is still open on the intake stroke it would suck air in from the exhaust and intake manifold.

The reason for the valve timing overlap is to allow the inertia from the exiting exhaust gases to scavenge more exhaust gases from the cylinder before the exhaust valve closes. The exhaust gases never re-inter the cylinder.
The article points out that some CATs are located only an inch or two away from the exhaust valves. I guess that it is possible in those cases for fragments of the CATs to fall back into the cylinders through open exhaust valves when the engine has stopped.

 

[TexasTruck]

While not cheap at $2200 it 'could' be a possible alternative, so I reached out to them and asked a few questions, since I'm a future super-charged F150 owner.

Given it has more holes (625 vs 400) for exhaust to flow it seems like it would be a better alternative, but I'm still stuck... I don't think we know why the OEM CATs fail to begin with. Do they crack due to high temperature cycles with out any drive time after you heat them up. Do they crack due to increased boosted back pressure.... I don't know.... I wonder what kind of testing SPD does..... they say higher flow, but is that only one part of the problem ?‍

 

[TexasTruck]

Who's going to be the first guinea pig?

2,195.... vs a new engine and all that goes with the swap....

 

[Davidwnuc]

When i asked Roush what changes were made for the revised tune, the service rep quoted the info from the previous gen tune update.

“Engine and/or Catalyst Failure associated with high RPM operation in manually selected gear position. Extended operation at the engine speed limiter, as can occur with transmission in manually selected gear, can result in large oscillations in engine torque and exhaust flow potentially causing engine or catalyst damage. A revised calibration provides smoother operation at the speed limiter in these conditions.”

I had previously found this info on their website…

https://support.roushperformance.co...-CALIBRATION-UPDATE-VEHICLE-2018-2020-F150-SC

the guy behind the email had no other info.

And no, i was not in manual mode bouncing it off the rev limiter right before i got the check engine light.

 

[TexasTruck]

When i asked Roush what changes were made for the revised tune, the service rep quoted the info from the previous gen tune update.

https://support.roushperformance.co...-CALIBRATION-UPDATE-VEHICLE-2018-2020-F150-SC

Impressed Roush makes that information publicly available for one. The second is I haven't heard that before..... the waves must hammer at the catalyst or something....

That TSB is through 2020, do you think that is already a part of your tune or not?

 

[Davidwnuc]

Impressed Roush makes that information publicly available for one. The second is I haven't heard that before..... the waves must hammer at the catalyst or something....

That TSB is through 2020, do you think that is already a part of your tune or not?

I ensured he knew i had a 2022 truck and that what he was telling me matched the 2018-2020 trucks tune revision. He assured me that a tune revision was available for my VIN. so we shall see.
I have the Roush software the correct cable and voucher from roush to apply the update.

 

[TexasTruck]

I have the Roush software the correct cable and voucher from roush to apply the update.

Oh, I thought after the repair they applied the tune before returning the truck... I'm behind....

 

[Davidwnuc]

Oh, I thought after the repair they applied the tune before returning the truck... I'm behind....

no. the dealer did nothing with the tune. I didn’t even know there was a revision until i opened a case with Roush after my truck was returned.

 

[Slyder]

Given it has more holes (625 vs 400) for exhaust to flow it seems like it would be a better alternative, but I'm still stuck... I don't think we know why the OEM CATs fail to begin with. Do they crack due to high temperature cycles with out any drive time after you heat them up. Do they crack due to increased boosted back pressure.... I don't know.... I wonder what kind of testing SPD does..... they say higher flow, but is that only one part of the problem ?‍

Sadly, they didn't go into specifics about their testing.

The SPD setup has positive points over the factory stock Y-pipe & cats with it's bigger pipe size and better flowing cats, but did they do any 'torture' testing of the Alpha set-up and if they did what kind and was it on the super-charged 5.0L also.

It would be nice if we had photos of a factory cat cut open so we could see how the ceramic is located in it and the gaps between the ceramic and interior surfaces. My guess is the gap is pretty small and it's one of contributing factors as to why they're failing.

I really doubt the places manufacturing the cats for OEM use have really changed their manufacturing process much over the past decade, outside of the application of certain metals to help meet emissions standards. The fact that other vehicles, even ones not super-charged, and other Manufacturers are experiencing this, to a point, is what leads me to believe this.

Companies aren't going to invest a lot of money into a new design if they can use the current one and bandaid it to work for the average consumer and then turn a blind eye to the outlier consumers who want performance and such.

 

[TheGoatman]

Based on my experience, id assume that on a supercharged v8, any aftermarket cat is garbage except gesi gen 2.

you still obviously need more enrichment than peak power and COT turned on to keep them alive

 

[Henfield]

The stock 5.0 has a 12:1 Compression ratio. This is at the high end for naturally aspirated engines. Turbo and supercharged vehicles tend to keep the CR lower than NA engines.
Is there any change in the head gaskets to lower the CR and if so, what does it drop to?

 

[fecalflinger]

2,195.... vs a new engine and all that goes with the swap....

If Ford and Roush want to pay for new long blocks every 5000 miles because cant fix it or choose not too, that's fine by me. My plan is to remove the cats all together when the factory warranty is up or when I get tired of having it in the shop all of the time.

 

[Slyder]

Based on my experience, id assume that on a supercharged v8, any aftermarket cat is garbage except gesi gen 2.

you still obviously need more enrichment than peak power and COT turned on to keep them alive

GESI Gen2 cats are what SPD uses on their other down-pipe set up, but it's hard to say what the cats on the Alpha set-up are sourced from.

Did they work with GESI to develop them?

It's hard to say but I plan on keeping an eye out for people that install the SPD Alpha set-up to see what their experience is.

I'm not expecting to see my truck until late August at the earliest (it's not even built yet), so there's a decent amount of time between now and then for a few people to get them and try them.

 

[Davidwnuc]

If Ford and Roush want to pay for new long blocks every 5000 miles because cant fix it or choose not too, that's fine by me. My plan is to remove the cats all together when the factory warranty is up or when I get tired of having it in the shop all of the time.

I’m with you on that. lol
I’m leaning towards long tubes anyway so these downpipe options seem like a waste of money for me. In the meantime though I’m going to convert to heated and cooled leather and let Ford/Roush fix stuff as needed until the warranty expires.

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