Anti-Sway bars questions

[FirstFord]

I think what bothers people most about these, aside from the difficulty in getting it installed parallel to the ground, is how low it hangs. I don’t think there’s anyway around that. If you’re concerned you’ll ever drive over terrain that could hit your dif or axle, don’t instal this, it will get destroyed and possible cause collateral damage.

BINGO! That has been the big concern, my quiet reservation about this all along, and you just confirmed it. In an earlier post to this thread, I volunteered that while I don't go rock crawling and other like-kind sport activities with my truck, I do occasionally get into some rough country to perform a task every now and then, and judging by the sway bar installation pictures from manufacturers and that other forum members posted, the bar and end links appeared to hang down way too low for my comfort level. I started toying with the idea of modifying the sway bar mounting saddle to get it to mount closer to the axle. Obviously, this would also necessitate modifying the end links as well. This would all be done in an attempt to negate - or at least counter to some degree, the low hanging exposure of the bar and associated hardware. Others became interested in this concept, albeit for different reasons - primarily aesthetic - and that's a reason I can completely understand and support. But I've had this nagging feeling about this potential project, and whether or not I am on a fool's errand driven by blind optimism, creativity, and a desire to conquer a design issue. In short, I think the idea of bringing the bar up closer to the axle, is in fact, doable - but my doubt is rapidly growing as to if I can mount it high enough to achieve the goal of keeping it (and everything connected to it) from being damaged. ?

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[BUDXR7]

BINGO! That has been the big concern, my quiet reservation about this all along, and you just confirmed it. In an earlier post to this thread, I volunteered that while I don't go rock crawling and other like-kind sport activities with my truck, I do occasionally get into some rough country to perform a task every now and then, and judging by the sway bar installation pictures from manufacturers and that other forum members posted, the bar and end links appeared to hang down way too low for my comfort level. I started toying with the idea of modifying the sway bar mounting saddle to get it to mount closer to the axle. Obviously, this would also necessitate modifying the end links as well. This would all be done in an attempt to negate - or at least counter to some degree, the low hanging exposure of the bar and associated hardware. Others became interested in this concept, albeit for different reasons - primarily aesthetic - and that's a reason I can completely understand and support. But I've had this nagging feeling about this potential project, and whether or not I am on a fool's errand driven by blind optimism, creativity, and a desire to conquer a design issue. In short, I think the idea of bringing the bar up closer to the axle, is in fact, doable - but my doubt is rapidly growing as to if I can mount it high enough to achieve the goal of keeping it (and everything connected to it) damaged. ?

You can get it closer to the axle by clocking the u bolts so the bracket is mounted on an angle. I don’t think you gain enough to be worth it though and not sure how it would affect function. Short of an IRS, stiffer springs might help body roll at the cost of harsher ride.

 

[FirstFord]

You can get it closer to the axle by clocking the u bolts so the bracket is mounted on an angle.

Brilliant thought - but I don't think I could get that to work with my airbags.

Short of an IRS, stiffer springs might help body roll at the cost of harsher ride.

I hear ya. Nope, that ain't going to happen. I think the ship supporting my original idea is sinking....

 

[Buyer2021]

So, just brainstorming again (hard to break the habit 'cause it's fun mental exercise) .....

@FirstFord , are your airbags linked with a crossover tube allowing pressure to 'equalize' side to side when the body rolls (thereby providing no resistance to roll)?

I wonder if eliminating that x-over, making each bag independent of the other, would tend to reduce body-roll to some / a meaningful extent?

Not much thought behind that, not at all sure if the notion is valid, the effect may be negligible ...

 

[FirstFord]

So, just brainstorming again (hard to break the habit 'cause it's fun mental exercise) .....

@FirstFord , are your airbags linked with a crossover tube allowing pressure to 'equalize' side to side when the body rolls (thereby providing no resistance to roll)?

I wonder if eliminating that x-over, making each bag independent of the other, would tend to reduce body-roll to some / a meaningful extent?

Not much thought behind that, not at all sure if the notion is valid, the effect may be negligible ...

Airbags: I understand your comments/questions. When I first plumbed the bags with airlines, I had the option of filling/exhausting the bags individually - and control them individually, or tie them together and treat them as a paired team. I saw advantages and disadvantages to both side of this argument, to the point that I actually considered adding a valve in the air lines that would allow me to play it both ways. But in the end, I reasoned that the more connections, the more chances for leaks, so I chickened out and didn't go that direction. It is currently plumbed as one air inlet servicing both bags.

I completely respect your "brainstorming", or as I sometimes refer to it when applied to myself, "thinking out loud". However, IF I understand your suggestion correctly, I'm not so sure that your concept of using airbags as a suspension control aid - as a substitute for a sway bar is going to work. A sway bar's added control aid is "automatic" - it's a dynamic action - it's just there and works. Trying to utilize the airbags to perform the same function would require an air pressure adjustment, individually, every millisecond. But I think I also may have misunderstood what you were trying to say..... ?‍

 

[Buyer2021]

stiffer springs might help body roll at the cost of harsher ride.

I'm not so sure that your concept of using airbags as a suspension control aid - as a substitute for a sway bar is going to work.

Just harkening to @BUDXR7 's point that stiffer springs can reduce body roll.

To the extent that independent air bags have pressure above 0 psig, those bags serve to increase the 'spring rate' of the suspension to some degree on each side (as do stiffer springs).

Nope, no method of increasing spring rate offers the same dynamic as an anti-sway bar, but it does decrease body-roll to some extent.

 

[FirstFord]

@hotrodmex posted a picture of an older Ford OEM sway bar:

https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/anti-sway-bars-questions.15445/page-4

^ THAT is the answer to sway bar ground clearance problems! But it also looks like I would still have issues with the airbags. I think it is becoming more and more evident that I'm not going to be able to have my cake and eat it too....

On the bright side, I never thought the body roll of my truck was terribly bad - yeah, there is some, but it isn't like it is offensive, something that I couldn't live with. In an ideal world, I would like to tame it some, but I think in the big picture, the cure may be worse than the illness....

 

[Buyer2021]

I never thought the body roll of my truck was terribly bad - yeah, there is some, but it isn't like it is offensive, something that I couldn't live with. In an ideal world,

We've been talking a bit about 'body roll', but a different (albeit intimately related) specific handling characteristic is under/oversteer.

Most vehicles leave the factory with a 'comfortable / conservative' degree of inherent understeer as that's considered a 'safer' characteristic for most drivers than oversteer.

An added (or stiffer) rear bar has the effect of reducing understeer / increasing oversteer. That means the vehicle 'turns-in' quicker, feels more responsive to turning inputs. Within limits that can be a good thing, giving the real-world effect of 'more responsive' steering / handling.

IMO all of these commonly available F150 bars are well within 'safe' ranges (they don't introduce dangerous degrees of oversteer). Many consider the effect to be more 'balanced' handling in response to steering inputs.

IMO though reduced body roll is one effect, it's really that improvement in turn-in / steering response that is the meaningful benefit of these bars for some drivers.

'YMMV' as to the desirability / 'value' of that effect, no worries!

 

[Snakebitten]

I have no issue with considering a rear "anti-sway bar" as primarily an anti-body-roll device. Which in turn does what you describe as reducing understeer.

Although I have been an F150 Ecoboost drivetrain fan for several trucks (years) now, that's because with the Ecoboost, Ford has pretty much provided me with the HP/TQ part of the equation straight from the factory.
But all my life I have almost always pursued handling over power. It's easy to see that if you walk in my barn and see the motorcycles and cars that I have accumulated over the decades. I'm wired to find pleasure in what I describe as chassis dynamics.

An F150 with a solid axle and leaf springs doesn't exactly represent the best design for my pursuit! But that's what I have to work with. Lol

The good news is that there's a LOT of low hanging fruit, so in my opinion the return on investment is really good. I feel that my 157" wheel base BRICK is far more "planted" and compliant compared to OEM. And the Steeda, regardless of ground clearance issues, is absolutely part of the equation for my preferences. I should have done it first.

 

[Snakebitten]

I was returning to the truck to leave the office early today.

Couldn't help but notice as I approached.
At first glance, both the factory pumpkin and shock mounts are lower than the bar.

 

[bgalakazam]

What’s the steeda or other brand part number for 4x4 crewcab shortbed with no cutting needed?

 

[Chili]

You can get it closer to the axle by clocking the u bolts so the bracket is mounted on an angle. I don’t think you gain enough to be worth it though and not sure how it would affect function. Short of an IRS, stiffer springs might help body roll at the cost of harsher ride.

I was actually just going to mention this. No reason a 15 -degree or so clock wouldn't lift that bar up an inch or two. Would the end links being in a different (further back, if you rotate it back) have an effect? I wouldn't think so. It's no different than having multiple connection points to vary the firmness, only this wouldn't change the leverage on the bar like that would.

The picture with it rotated 90 degrees might work too, but that design is going to change the how firm the bar is, I would think. Maybe someone here more engineer minded can comment on that aspect.

 

[BUDXR7]

You’d be changing the angles quite a bit. These forces act as vectors in all three planes. I can’t speak to how changing the angles would affect the performance.

 

[hotrodmex]

At first glance, both the factory pumpkin and shock mounts are lower than the bar.

In my personal case, I would want less items overall hanging down to get hung up off-road.

But it also looks like I would still have issues with the airbags

I'm not sure it the Super Duty bar would have any interference with anything around the spring or spring block. The arms come forward a few inches. while being level with the centerline of the axle tube.

 

[FirstFord]

I'm not sure it the Super Duty bar would have any interference with anything around the spring or spring block. The arms come forward a few inches. while being level with the centerline of the axle tube.

I'm getting the impression that your knowledge/experience with this Super Duty sway bar is firsthand. Is that bar on your Super Duty? If so, I've got a few follow up questions....

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