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Why I Change My Own Oil

"Steve"

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i started working on my own car early on after a couple bad experiences with the local dealership or oil change places. it seemed every time i let someone else touch my car, it came back with a new, extra problem/dent/scratch etc. now having anyone but me touch my stuff is a last resort.
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amschind

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I don't fault the manufacturers for discontinuing the manufacture of parts or not providing continued support. Technology marches on and us consumers keep demanding newer products with greater amounts of complexity. These days even things like cell phones have new and better models every year. I just replaced my iPhone 7 because after seven years Apple was going to discontinue support and it had become obsolete. The product lifecycles have become shorter and shorter.
I agree with your first sentence as written, but I think that you are making an assumption that I disagree with. If Ford makes the 2010-2012 2.0L Ecoboost crankshaft sensor and decides in 2030 that once they sell off their stock that's it, who can blame them? I think that's what you're saying and I completely agree. BUT I would also argue that the problem is a bit contrived because the sensor is so particular to that specific vehicle. IF an OEM produces the issue or stocking 400 types of non-interchangeable crank position sensors, then we cannot expect them to stock all 400 in perpetuity, BUT we CAN ask why that OEM felt the need to build 400 non-interchangeable parts in the first place.

Take the exhaust coolant heater control circuit from the PB. It's a German part that gets put on a bunch of stuff, including BMW motorcycles. Ford bought that COTS part, swapped the wires around and put a proprietary connector on it. All of a sudden, we went from one part that could be stocked forever (because the several individually small pools of buyers were....pooled....into a sufficiently large group of buyers to justify that stocking cost) to separate proprietary Ford and BMW parts that will both be unobtanium in 20 years.

The easiest method for solving a problem is often to avoid creating that problem in the first place. In this setting, I would argue that the planet Earth probably needs 10 total crank position sensor designs per decade, and that's a conservatively high estimate.
 

Dale B

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I agree with your first sentence as written, but I think that you are making an assumption that I disagree with. If Ford makes the 2010-2012 2.0L Ecoboost crankshaft sensor and decides in 2030 that once they sell off their stock that's it, who can blame them? I think that's what you're saying and I completely agree. BUT I would also argue that the problem is a bit contrived because the sensor is so particular to that specific vehicle. IF an OEM produces the issue or stocking 400 types of non-interchangeable crank position sensors, then we cannot expect them to stock all 400 in perpetuity, BUT we CAN ask why that OEM felt the need to build 400 non-interchangeable parts in the first place.

Take the exhaust coolant heater control circuit from the PB. It's a German part that gets put on a bunch of stuff, including BMW motorcycles. Ford bought that COTS part, swapped the wires around and put a proprietary connector on it. All of a sudden, we went from one part that could be stocked forever (because the several individually small pools of buyers were....pooled....into a sufficiently large group of buyers to justify that stocking cost) to separate proprietary Ford and BMW parts that will both be unobtanium in 20 years.

The easiest method for solving a problem is often to avoid creating that problem in the first place. In this setting, I would argue that the planet Earth probably needs 10 total crank position sensor designs per decade, and that's a conservatively high estimate.
I haven't had problems with drivetrain parts. Most of the engines and transmissions are used across a number of models and for a number of years, so there is a larger demand for those parts. The parts that I have trouble with are model specific and are only made for a few years and tend to have a long service life. To be specific, the pneumatic actuators for the interior vent controls for the HVAC in the R129 Mercedes SL500 1992-2002. The things are pretty simple contraptions that control the path of the airflow in the HVAC system and were trouble free for 20 years. They stopped making them a decade ago. My 1999 SL500 needs several of them and the newest ones in junkyards are over 20 years old, just like mine. Plastic trim parts can be 3D printed and there are sources for some of them, because some parts just get brittle with age and will just fall apart.

The instrument cluster in my 2001 S430 Mercedes was solid state (much like the new ones in a F-150). The instrument cluster operated flawlessly for 20 years and then it didn't. The engine and drivetrain were in great shape even with 240K miles. I could live without the speedometer, but the odometer and the fuel gage are located in that cluster. I couldn't even estimate fuel based on mileage. The problem with instrument clusters with odometers is that they are designed to prevent people from changing out the cluster to roll back the mileage. Forget about getting a solid-state instrument cluster for a twenty-year-old car. That is the challenge of keeping an old car running.

What you would like to happen is that the whole car falls apart at the same time. I learned that with battery drills, when the batteries die, you dispose of the whole drill. New batteries for the old drill costs more than a new drill with new batteries. I believe that EV's will follow the same path. I think that they will be disposable when the batteries need replacing. There is no need to over engineer some components for a much longer life than the rest of the vehicle. Are EV's disposable after 10 years? 12 years?
 

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They are so focused on EPA requirements that they simply stuff things in as small a space as they can find. They assume that a dealer tech using a lift will do the oil change. So the rest of us, most without lifts, are stuck with whatever they let us have. In my case I put some 2x6s three high on the garage floor to get access to the filter, that works pretty nicely. But if I could have it up top on the engine, that would be beautiful...
You are exactly right. I haven't had to deal with a spin on filter in over thirty years and I'm not looking forward to it. I remember the hot oil running down my arm to my elbow. Years ago, I had a mat that I slid under the car to help catch oil spills. It looks like I will need to come up with another one. Do the skid plates get in the way of drain plugs or oil filters? Those are the kind of things that they should protect. Please tell me that I won't have to remove the skid plate to change the oil.
 

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I haven't had problems with drivetrain parts. Most of the engines and transmissions are used across a number of models and for a number of years, so there is a larger demand for those parts. The parts that I have trouble with are model specific and are only made for a few years and tend to have a long service life. To be specific, the pneumatic actuators for the interior vent controls for the HVAC in the R129 Mercedes SL500 1992-2002. The things are pretty simple contraptions that control the path of the airflow in the HVAC system and were trouble free for 20 years. They stopped making them a decade ago. My 1999 SL500 needs several of them and the newest ones in junkyards are over 20 years old, just like mine. Plastic trim parts can be 3D printed and there are sources for some of them, because some parts just get brittle with age and will just fall apart.

The instrument cluster in my 2001 S430 Mercedes was solid state (much like the new ones in a F-150). The instrument cluster operated flawlessly for 20 years and then it didn't. The engine and drivetrain were in great shape even with 240K miles. I could live without the speedometer, but the odometer and the fuel gage are located in that cluster. I couldn't even estimate fuel based on mileage. The problem with instrument clusters with odometers is that they are designed to prevent people from changing out the cluster to roll back the mileage. Forget about getting a solid-state instrument cluster for a twenty-year-old car. That is the challenge of keeping an old car running.

What you would like to happen is that the whole car falls apart at the same time. I learned that with battery drills, when the batteries die, you dispose of the whole drill. New batteries for the old drill costs more than a new drill with new batteries. I believe that EV's will follow the same path. I think that they will be disposable when the batteries need replacing. There is no need to over engineer some components for a much longer life than the rest of the vehicle. Are EV's disposable after 10 years? 12 years?
I think that the new era of EVs will be less disposable than the old era because the batteries degrade is a mostly linear fashion, while the starting capacity rises and the mileage floor for replacement stays constant. An electric ForTwo that started with 88 miles of range is flat done when it hits 80%, but a Tesla S with 400 miles is just fine at 80%. The vehicle may not be suitable for the original owner's purposes any longer, but it won't be ready for the scrapyard.

And to your point about all of the little dongles going bad, I tend to agree, but feel that my point about "common COTS solutions are best" is perhaps even more applicable there. To make one specific example, if Ford keeps moving toward LCD instrument clusters, then the cluster moves from a one-off part to a screen that hooks to the proprietary bits with a ribbon cable. I'm getting my Framework in next week, and that's a non-automotive example of consumers taking back control. Folks have fiddled different screens on and made it work. I don't think that a device or a car has to be THAT modular to make it workable, but for the bits and bobs it definitely helps.
 

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You are exactly right. I haven't had to deal with a spin on filter in over thirty years and I'm not looking forward to it. I remember the hot oil running down my arm to my elbow. Years ago, I had a mat that I slid under the car to help catch oil spills. It looks like I will need to come up with another one. Do the skid plates get in the way of drain plugs or oil filters? Those are the kind of things that they should protect. Please tell me that I won't have to remove the skid plate to change the oil.
the large skid plate needs to be dropped... :-(
 

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My 2015 Mercedes C-350 two door coupe needs the under carriage cover removed to get to the drain plug. This is not a problem for me and doesn't take long. It gives me a chance to inspect everything while I'm down there and catch any issues early, instead of after something fails.
 

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My 2015 Mercedes C-350 two door coupe needs the under carriage cover removed to get to the drain plug. This is not a problem for me and doesn't take long. It gives me a chance to inspect everything while I'm down there and catch any issues early, instead of after something fails.
Mercedes designs its cars to be serviced from under the hood. You can use an inexpensive, less than $20, transfer pump to remove the oil through the dipstick tube. They started doing that on their cars when they started using belly pans to decrease drag and improve fuel economy. I first learned it with my 1992 500E. After about the second time removing the belly pan, I started pumping out the oil and haven't had to crawl under a car to change the oil since.
After a number of times removing the belly pan, you tend to mess up the attachment points. It is better to remove it as seldom as possible if you plan to keep the car as long as I do.
 
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Dale B

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the large skid plate needs to be dropped... :-(
Damn!!! I guess that I will have to decide whether the risk of not having one is worth the PITA of messing with it. The designers need to be made to change the oil without a lift.
 
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amschind

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the large skid plate needs to be dropped... :-(
The "skid plate" CAD design file needs to be dropped back into the Recycle Bin where belongs. I don't understand why Ford offers a big piece of fiberboard as an add-on. And they install marginal but still much better stamped steel skid plates WITH THE SAME PACKAGE, so there isn't an excuse there either. A suspicious person might suggest that the Ford engineers/bean counters made materials choices based upon the assumption that prospective buyers might get a good view of the engine and t-case skid plates but would be hard pressed to see the transmission skid plate during a brief look over.

The FX4 package is an opportunity for the buyer to pay $1400 for the privilege of wasting more time while changing fluids. Multiple entities consisting of "a guy in his garage" have designed, built and created businesses around the sale of dramatically better skid plates; Ford could achieve this if they had any inclination to do so.
 

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Damn!!! I guess that I will have to decide whether the risk of not having one is worth the PITA of messing with it. The designers need to be made to change the oil without a lift.
Four 8MM nuts does it... If you change oil by raising the front end (I do this with 3 high 2x6s). you can get away with just the front two 8MM nuts... The oil pan drain plug is 15mm & has a captive rubber o-ring in it. Mine is steel.
 

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The "skid plate" CAD design file needs to be dropped back into the Recycle Bin where belongs. I don't understand why Ford offers a big piece of fiberboard as an add-on. And they install marginal but still much better stamped steel skid plates WITH THE SAME PACKAGE, so there isn't an excuse there either. A suspicious person might suggest that the Ford engineers/bean counters made materials choices based upon the assumption that prospective buyers might get a good view of the engine and t-case skid plates but would be hard pressed to see the transmission skid plate during a brief look over.

The FX4 package is an opportunity for the buyer to pay $1400 for the privilege of wasting more time while changing fluids. Multiple entities consisting of "a guy in his garage" have designed, built and created businesses around the sale of dramatically better skid plates; Ford could achieve this if they had any inclination to do so.
I'm considering installing a remote filter setup so that I can change the filter from above the engine...
 

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I'm considering installing a remote filter setup so that I can change the filter from above the engine...
Post pics if you do. It's hard to justify installing your inline filter idea on its own, but a remove filter with an extra fine filter in line would be a pretty awesome setup.
 

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Mercedes designs its cars to be serviced from under the hood. You can use an inexpensive, less than $20, transfer pump to remove the oil through the dipstick tube. They started doing that on their cars when they started using belly pans to decrease drag and improve fuel economy. I first learned it with my 1992 500E. After about the second time removing the belly pan, I started pumping out the oil and haven't had to crawl under a car to change the oil since.
Yet they still have drain plugs! The best a pump can do is drain the same amount of oil as a drain plug removal would. In some cases it isn't able to get close to that. Check this thread for proof.

After a number of times removing the belly pan, you tend to mess up the attachment points. It is better to remove it as seldom as possible if you plan to keep the car as long as I do.
No issues with pan attachment points over here after 8 years of service on mine. I honestly wonder how anyone up to servicing their car would have issues with this. I also don't think anyone can dispute the other benefit that pan removal achieves... a full under vehicle inspection. No tech with a pump on top can do this.
 

Dale B

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Yet they still have drain plugs! The best a pump can do is drain the same amount of oil as a drain plug removal would. In some cases it isn't able to get close to that. Check this thread for proof.



No issues with pan attachment points over here after 8 years of service on mine. I honestly wonder how anyone up to servicing their car would have issues with this. I also don't think anyone can dispute the other benefit that pan removal achieves... a full under vehicle inspection. No tech with a pump on top can do this.
What I know to be true is that I have owned and serviced three Mercedies with aluminum V8 engines of two different designs, the M119 and the M113 V8s. The M119 was in my 92 500E and was the first car that I started removing the oil as the dealerships do. The first time, I suctioned the oil and then removed the drain plug to prove to myself that the process worked. I got very little, less than a teaspoon of oil to drain from the drain plug hole. I changed the oil and filter in that manner for the rest of the time that I owned the car. I changed the oil and filter at 10,000-mile intervals as the factory recommended, using the recommended oil, Mobile 1. I owned the car until it had 340,000 miles and the only other maintenance that I did to the engine was to replace the timing chain and associated ramps and guides at 160,000 miles as a preventative measure. I never had to add oil between oil changes. That was the first car that I ever owned with a belly pan. The belly pan was removed for other access and service seldom done by me. Before I let the car go, I had to use fender washers around the bolts that were used to secure the pan due to the wear and tear of removal over the years. The car and the pan were over twenty years old by that time and things like that shows the age of the car. Suit yourself, remove it all that you like, but that is why many of those cars live their old age without a belly pan.

My second Mercedes was a S430 with the M113 V8. I changed the oil without removing the drain plug or the belly pan. I put 240,000 trouble free miles on that one and retired it at over twenty years old due to interior and parts just wearing out, but the engine was still going strong.

I bought two BMW three series for my daughter and checked the first oil change in the same manner and the suction through the dip stick tube evacuated all of the oil from the pan.
When you take your Mercedes or BMW back to the dealer for an oil change, they evacuate the oil through the dip stick tube and change the filter from above the engine. They do not remove the drain plug or remove the belly pan.

That is why all of their oil filters are positioned to be changed from under the hood and have been that way for over thirty years.

I just asked the question if anyone knew if the Ford 5.0 could be evacuated the same way.
I changed oil by crawling under cars for the thirty years before I started driving Mercedes, and I guess that I can start again. I had just hoped that Ford would have progressed to that point given thirty years to catch up. I had hoped that rather than designing a gutter to go on the frame under the oil filter, they would have fixed the problem and moved the filter.
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