Solutions for weight sag in rear?

[Snakebitten]

With the HD's, I'd imagine you would get half back. I have non HD's and when I just had the topper and ramps, I was around + 300 and I got .75" back and they're minimally engaged as I used the 1mm, not the 2mm tension spacer. How much tension you apply is adjustable and I also think you upgrade the shocks too or it will wallow.

A great example of what they are capable of. You got back that height with the 1mm setting on the standard set.
I imagine that 2mm setting on the HD set would be a really good result.

Sponsored

 

[Rockman5159]

I appreciate that.
@Dupers and @Snakebitten: Are y'all telling me that I could win back some clearance in the rear with the HD RAS? I know I don't deserve to be back up like I wasn't hauling; but I _am_ seeking to re-gain _some_ of it. And if I can, then I could even lift the front an inch or so with Bilstein 6112s...

Keep in mind that the rear shocks will NOT change the ride height only the dampening and rebounding of the rear suspension

 

[HammaMan]

Even a max tow truck would sag pretty bad with 1500lbs in it. You may only sag 2" instead of 3, or 2.25.

Airbags would be a bad idea because the weight is always there. Your best bet is going to be the HD RAS paired with Bilstein shocks, 5100 minimum but I'd go with the 5160's in back to prevent overheating. Your call if you want 5100's or 6112 up front.

Personally I vote quality bags. Infinitely variable and most heavy haul vehicles use air suspension. Allows for easy leveling of the vehicle with asymmetric loads as well.

 

[J-C]

Personally I vote quality bags. Infinitely variable and most heavy haul vehicles use air suspension. Allows for easy leveling of the vehicle with asymmetric loads as well.

I appreciate that. What are the real-world pros and cons of airbags -- versus, say the RAS system? The advantages that @HammaMan listed are appealing. What's the airbag downside?
Does it make sense to install airbags _and_ upgrade the shocks?

 

[Buyer2021]

Just FWIW my (positive) airbag experience on an older F150 'working truck' ....

The situation - a rig I drove 10 trips / 8k miles each year for 12 years while serving as a motorcycle roadrace official

• 2005 F150 SuperCab 145" WB 7050# GVWR / 1730# Payload rating (pic in my avatar)
• Truck was equipped with 'HD' Bilstein shocks F&R shortly after purchase in 2005 to provide much improved damping control
• Towing 17' Casita RV trailer without WDH, ~3000# loaded trailer weight / 420# tongue weight
• Cargo+occupant load varied from 600-900# (pit bikes, generator(s), misc equipment)
• Between race events the truck got miles running 'empty' and a fair number of miles towing ag / utility trailers (both bumper-pull without WDH and gooseneck) and loaded weights ranging from 1k#-7k#

My travel schedule necessitated mostly night driving to-and-from race events, a fair amount on rural highways; headlight / driving light-aim was a critical factor for me (note the Hella grille / driving lights in the avatar pic, a fantastic aftermarket accessory custom for the F150 of long ago).

After a few race trips I installed basic AirLift 'Ride Control' bags rated for up to 2000# of 'leveling boost'; the specs call for ~5psi minimum pressure, something like 100psi max. Here's what I found:

• Even though lifting only the rear, with air added to recover rear-sag the front also dropped and my headlight aim was almost spot-on (weight transfer in-play, my main goal achieved)
• Loaded vehicle ride, handling, and bump-compliance was Great - definitely stiffer but not at all 'harsh'
• Adding air to the bags when towing heavy utility trailer loads yielded reduced sag, better ride and better handling than without air
• When towing my 2021 5th wheel RV (5000# loaded weight / 750# pin weight), I use the bags to 'trim' the height of the in-bed trailer hitch so the trailer rides level; this also yeilds great ride and handling
• Empty ride with barely any air in the bags at all (just enough to feel when squeezing the bags by hand) is 'no change' from no airbags at all (that's what I'd hoped for)

I don't recall ever putting an air gauge on those bags after my initial test when I installed 'em. I always adjust pressure by just watching the change in sag; I'm sure that the psi when I'm not loaded or towing is down to less than the recommended 5psi.

I still own this truck as a backup vehicle (no longer my main towing vehicle), it still has the now ~16 year-old bags I originally installed, they have every appearance of being in perfect condition.

Bottom Line - I love my airbags, after all these years with them I cannot ascribe a single 'downside' to having them on that truck. IMO there's absolutely nothing about air bags that's incompatible with addressing damping control separately with aftermarket shocks.

I would install airbags on my 2022 Lariat in a heartbeat but for the problem that as of this date no-one makes a kit which will fit along with the B&W Turnoverball under-bed hitch which I use for towing my 5th wheel RV (bracket conflict at the frame rails). Fortunately neither sag nor hitch-level is a problem with the 'fiver' on the 2022 Lariat - it's a wonderfully 'balanced' rig. BTW Bilstein 4600's F&R are on my near-term list for the new Lariat.

Mine is not exactly the same situation as yours @J-C , I don't know if bags would meet your requirements, but perhaps the above gives you some idea of their potential, flexibility for correcting variable rear-sag, and longevity.

With apology for the long post, I hope it's of some value, just one person's relatively long-term experience, Good Luck finding your ideal suspension solution!

 

[J-C]

Just FWIW my (positive) airbag experience on an older F150 'working truck' ....

The situation - a rig I drove 10 trips / 8k miles each year for 12 years while serving as a motorcycle roadrace official

• 2005 F150 SuperCab 145" WB 7050# GVWR / 1730# Payload rating (pic in my avatar)
• Truck was equipped with 'HD' Bilstein shocks F&R shortly after purchase in 2005 to provide much improved damping control
• Towing 17' Casita RV trailer without WDH, ~3000# loaded trailer weight / 420# tongue weight
• Cargo+occupant load varied from 600-900# (pit bikes, generator(s), misc equipment)
• Between race events the truck got miles running 'empty' and a fair number of miles towing ag / utility trailers (both bumper-pull without WDH and gooseneck) and loaded weights ranging from 1k#-7k#

My travel schedule necessitated mostly night driving to-and-from race events, a fair amount on rural highways; headlight / driving light-aim was a critical factor for me (note the Hella grille / driving lights in the avatar pic, a fantastic aftermarket accessory custom for the F150 of long ago).

After a few race trips I installed basic AirLift 'Ride Control' bags rated for up to 2000# of 'leveling boost'; the specs call for ~5psi minimum pressure, something like 100psi max. Here's what I found:

• Even though lifting only the rear, with air added to recover rear-sag the front also dropped and my headlight aim was almost spot-on (weight transfer in-play, my main goal achieved)
• Loaded vehicle ride, handling, and bump-compliance was Great - definitely stiffer but not at all 'harsh'
• Adding air to the bags when towing heavy utility trailer loads yielded reduced sag, better ride and better handling than without air
• When towing my 2021 5th wheel RV (5000# loaded weight / 750# pin weight), I use the bags to 'trim' the height of the in-bed trailer hitch so the trailer rides level; this also yeilds great ride and handling
• Empty ride with barely any air in the bags at all (just enough to feel when squeezing the bags by hand) is 'no change' from no airbags at all (that's what I'd hoped for)

I don't recall ever putting an air gauge on those bags after my initial test when I installed 'em. I always adjust pressure by just watching the change in sag; I'm sure that the psi when I'm not loaded or towing is down to less than the recommended 5psi.

I still own this truck as a backup vehicle (no longer my main towing vehicle), it still has the now ~16 year-old bags I originally installed, they have every appearance of being in perfect condition.

Bottom Line - I love my airbags, after all these years with them I cannot ascribe a single 'downside' to having them on that truck. IMO there's absolutely nothing about air bags that's incompatible with addressing damping control separately with aftermarket shocks.

I would install airbags on my 2022 Lariat in a heartbeat but for the problem that as of this date no-one makes a kit which will fit along with the B&W Turnoverball under-bed hitch which I use for towing my 5th wheel RV (bracket conflict at the frame rails). Fortunately neither sag nor hitch-level is a problem with the 'fiver' on the 2022 Lariat - it's a wonderfully 'balanced' rig. BTW Bilstein 4600's F&R are on my near-term list for the new Lariat.

Mine is not exactly the same situation as yours @J-C , I don't know if bags would meet your requirements, but perhaps the above gives you some idea of their potential, flexibility for correcting variable rear-sag, and longevity.

With apology for the long post, I hope it's of some value, just one person's relatively long-term experience, Good Luck finding your ideal suspension solution!

Excellent! I really appreciate the details, @Buyer2021, thanks.

 

[notabot]

Does it make sense to install airbags _and_ upgrade the shocks?

Seeing as how you don't need the flexibility of on-the-fly changes to your ride height, there really is no upside to going that direction. If you don't want to invest in a new leaf pack, I would go with the Active Suspension solution, HD shocks rated for the new damping parameters and maybe a bigger sway bar in the rear. DONE!

You want springs that will operate in the middle of their rated range, not at the ends of their rated range. For you, it makes sense to get springs that are rated for the new standard load of +1000lbs, as opposed to continuing to use the stock which are now working very near the top of their rated range 100% of the time.

 

[Chili]

I appreciate that. What are the real-world pros and cons of airbags -- versus, say the RAS system? The advantages that @HammaMan listed are appealing. What's the airbag downside?
Does it make sense to install airbags _and_ upgrade the shocks?

Bags are great for the right application. Adjusting load. I had them in a truck and when I would put a pallet of pavers in, I pumped up the bags and then dropped them back down when I took the weight out. They suppliment your suspension for loads.

The reason they're not a good fit for your application is because it sounds like your load is constant. Hot or cold you will have 1500lbs in the bed. So you would need to keep the bags at 60psi or whatever the correct pressue is at all times. Slightly adjusting for temperature. You'll want separate air lines too so you will need both at the correct pressue. Spring a leak on one side and it's going to create a dangerous situation. You'll end up lowering the other side and essentially disabling the system. Or run a one channel system at 60psi and be ok with when you go around a corner the inside compresses and pushed the air to the outside furthering the amount of lean.

Or just get RAS and dial them into your weight and be done. No worrying about pressures, temp, leaks etc.

I like bags. They're just not a good fit for a constant load. Great for the weekend warrior payload increase.

 

[HammaMan]

I appreciate that. What are the real-world pros and cons of airbags -- versus, say the RAS system? The advantages that @HammaMan listed are appealing. What's the airbag downside?
Does it make sense to install airbags _and_ upgrade the shocks?

As for upgrading shocks -- If you're continually loaded, you can likely benefit from better shocks. Some stiffer options may marginally adjust your ride height (not their function, just a byproduct of higher pressure accumulators some may use) but what they will provide is better dampening. More mass = benefits from increased dampening. The springs / bags carry the load, shocks prevent the spring boing-boing-bounce situation.

The need for 'better' shocks might not show up right away, but if you're constantly loaded, it could shorten the stock shock's lives.

There's also a flipside to this, too much shock could end up making the ride rough. Consider a name brand adjustable rear shock that has a dial on it for tuning. No need to go all out baja stuff, you just want to be able to easily dial in your comfort. Driving shouldn't fatigue ya, and a proper suspension will help with that. (also why I enjoy the co-pilot bells and whistles). Let the truck do most of the work!

 

[Calson]

The Max Payload package adds a third leaf spring at the rear and you may be able to do this. I put SuperSprings on my last truck to support a much greater payload and it was an extra pair of helper springs in each wheel. For the F-150 SuperSprings makes a different type of support that bolts on and is supposed to work but I would try to get the extra leaf spring and longer shackles and go that route, even if it meant going to an off-road shop that does this type of work.

Adding more support is the only solution that will work well when the bed is empty or loaded. With the extra weight the shocks also work harder and I replaced the ones on my truck with Rancho XL adjustable shocks. I adjusted the front shocks to prevent porpoising and the rear shocks for the weight of the camper. With the Rancho shocks it took about 60 seconds to adjust the dial on the shocks for the dampening I wanted with twice as much at the rear as at the front.

 

[J-C]

Bags are great for the right application. Adjusting load. I had them in a truck and when I would put a pallet of pavers in, I pumped up the bags and then dropped them back down when I took the weight out. They suppliment your suspension for loads.

The reason they're not a good fit for your application is because it sounds like your load is constant. Hot or cold you will have 1500lbs in the bed. So you would need to keep the bags at 60psi or whatever the correct pressue is at all times. Slightly adjusting for temperature. You'll want separate air lines too so you will need both at the correct pressue. Spring a leak on one side and it's going to create a dangerous situation. You'll end up lowering the other side and essentially disabling the system. Or run a one channel system at 60psi and be ok with when you go around a corner the inside compresses and pushed the air to the outside furthering the amount of lean.

Or just get RAS and dial them into your weight and be done. No worrying about pressures, temp, leaks etc.

I like bags. They're just not a good fit for a constant load. Great for the weekend warrior payload increase.

Thanks, @Dupers!

 

[J-C]

As for upgrading shocks -- If you're continually loaded, you can likely benefit from better shocks. Some stiffer options may marginally adjust your ride height (not their function, just a byproduct of higher pressure accumulators some may use) but what they will provide is better dampening. More mass = benefits from increased dampening. The springs / bags carry the load, shocks prevent the spring boing-boing-bounce situation.

The need for 'better' shocks might not show up right away, but if you're constantly loaded, it could shorten the stock shock's lives.

There's also a flipside to this, too much shock could end up making the ride rough. Consider a name brand adjustable rear shock that has a dial on it for tuning. No need to go all out baja stuff, you just want to be able to easily dial in your comfort. Driving shouldn't fatigue ya, and a proper suspension will help with that. (also why I enjoy the co-pilot bells and whistles). Let the truck do most of the work!

Thanks, @HammaMan!

 

[J-C]

The Max Payload package adds a third leaf spring at the rear and you may be able to do this. I put SuperSprings on my last truck to support a much greater payload and it was an extra pair of helper springs in each wheel. For the F-150 SuperSprings makes a different type of support that bolts on and is supposed to work but I would try to get the extra leaf spring and longer shackles and go that route, even if it meant going to an off-road shop that does this type of work.

Adding more support is the only solution that will work well when the bed is empty or loaded. With the extra weight the shocks also work harder and I replaced the ones on my truck with Rancho XL adjustable shocks. I adjusted the front shocks to prevent porpoising and the rear shocks for the weight of the camper. With the Rancho shocks it took about 60 seconds to adjust the dial on the shocks for the dampening I wanted with twice as much at the rear as at the front.

Thanks, @Calson!

 

[J-C]

Hey, here's an update in case any of you helpful folks are curious:

After contemplating everyone's great advice and input, I've made an appointment to have a whole new rear spring pack installed by Boise Spring Works: https://www.boisespringworks.com/spring-works-kit

While I'm there, I plan on having them install a set of Bilstein shocks, too: 6112s in front with some lift, 5160s in rear.
FYI, it seems this set of shocks is coming out as a branded option through Ford Performance; I'm not sure if I'd be better off getting the standard 6112s/5160s, or ordering the new "tuned by Ford Performance" version: https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-18000-F15B

Bottom line: I'm really looking forward to my new-and-improved ride!

 

[Snakebitten]

You are making great decisions in my opinion. The truck will handle much better than most 1/2 ton trucks on the road. Especially with a burden.

Sponsored