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HammaMan

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I wasn't expecting the results to be this close. I've been looking into tires and weighing the pros and cons and this illustrates how a wider tire doesn't just translate into 'better' performance. The less sidewall present in very low profile tires doesn't translate like this, but when there's 6" or more of sidewall, its easy to really tear into drivability and mileage for what amounts to questionable cosmetic gains.

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hotrodmex

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I love his videos. They're everything I've been trying to translate from decades of road-course/auto-x motorsport to off-road. So many people over-tire for the track. I suppose now that cars come with 300hp off the show room floor it's harder to do so, but no, your 200 HP BRZ does not need 275s for better lateral grip.
 

Je1279

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I wasn't expecting the results to be this close. I've been looking into tires and weighing the pros and cons and this illustrates how a wider tire doesn't just translate into 'better' performance. The less sidewall present in very low profile tires doesn't translate like this, but when there's 6" or more of sidewall, its easy to really tear into drivability and mileage for what amounts to questionable cosmetic gains.

I stumbled upon this video earlier today. What I found most interesting is that different brands of tires responded differently for a given width.
 
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Jaylars

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I love his videos. They're everything I've been trying to translate from decades of road-course/auto-x motorsport to off-road. So many people over-tire for the track. I suppose now that cars come with 300hp off the show room floor it's harder to do so, but no, your 200 HP BRZ does not need 275s for better lateral grip.

Um, "lateral grip" is different physics. Not sure how that has anything to do with aired down performance. Lateral grip (measured in Gs) is not what is discussed. Putting pizza cutters on a vette would result in tragic performance loss, especially in the turns and at speed.
 
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HammaMan

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Um, "lateral grip" is different physics. Not sure how that has anything to do with aired down performance. Lateral grip (measured in Gs) is not what is discussed. Putting pizza cutters on a vette would result in tragic performance loss, especially in the turns and at speed.
Not quite. The mach-e GTPE w/ driver comes in over 5200lbs and wears 245s all around with .99g on the skid pad. Tires 10mm slimmer than the 255s listed as pizza cutters here.....
 

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hotrodmex

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Um, "lateral grip" is different physics. Not sure how that has anything to do with aired down performance. Lateral grip (measured in Gs) is not what is discussed. Putting pizza cutters on a vette would result in tragic performance loss, especially in the turns and at speed.
You're building a straw-man out of what I'm saying. I was talking about translating similar concepts, not that all cars needed pizza cutters. The only car I even mentioned was a BRZ, so not sure how the jump was made to Corvette.
 

Jaylars

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I only used the vette example because that's what I know. I know, at least for the track, there is a need for wider tires as well as performance compound when it comes to lateral grip and speed in the turns. My point was, the video was talking about a totally different tire dynamic and physics for off road use.

And yes, a BRZ would benefit from wider tires on the track, especially if adding more HP.
Not quite. The mach-e GTPE w/ driver comes in over 5200lbs and wears 245s all around with .99g on the skid pad. Tires 10mm slimmer than the 255s listed as pizza cutters here.....
So you are stating that if you swap out the 245/45/20s on that Mach-E GT with 225/45/20s the .99 g lateral grip would remain the same? Or am I misunderstanding what your your saying?
 
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HammaMan

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So you are stating that if you swap out the 245/45/20s on that Mach-E GT with 225/45/20s the .99 g lateral grip would remain the same? Or am I misunderstanding what your your saying?
Would it be tragic as you claimed? No, just as much as going to 275s wouldn't unleash a sleeping monster.
 

Jaylars

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Oh! OK, I get it now. You're a proud MACH-E GT owner. Nice car.
 
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Oh! OK, I get it now. You're a proud MACH-E GT owner. Nice car.
Makes a great beater. As for proud, no, my opinion on owning it is indifferent. I'm more fond of the powerboost, but EVs are very convenient particularly with phone as a key. Hop in and within 5 seconds you can go WOT with no concern for the engine being up to temp. That was my primary reason for purchasing it as my office location and trips weren't very friendly to the 150, which due to being a hybrid, never saw the motor registering temp. Remote start won't turn on the ICE unless it's cold outside and needs the exhaust to heat up the cabin.
 

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JohngaltinOC

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I wasn't expecting the results to be this close. I've been looking into tires and weighing the pros and cons and this illustrates how a wider tire doesn't just translate into 'better' performance. The less sidewall present in very low profile tires doesn't translate like this, but when there's 6" or more of sidewall, its easy to really tear into drivability and mileage for what amounts to questionable cosmetic gains.

The question this raises for me is that the surface our vehicles use while off roading are not flat. Soil, sand, mud, whatever will behave like a concave surface and bend around the tires to a greater degree and wouldn't that mean the wider tire WILL have more contact with the surface material (hence "traction")?
 

Je1279

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The question this raises for me is that the surface our vehicles use while off roading are not flat. Soil, sand, mud, whatever will behave like a concave surface and bend around the tires to a greater degree and wouldn't that mean the wider tire WILL have more contact with the surface material (hence "traction")?
I can tell you from many years of experience that narrower tires are better in snow than wider tires while driving on road. Unsure if this translates to driving on soil or not. As for sand, wider tires will do better as they will "float" over the top rather than digging in. I do not have much experience with mud, but my understanding is that one of the main factors is how well your tread pattern ejects the mud to get a good bite the next time through. My assumption is that since mud is a softer surface, that wider may be better, but I am only speculating. If so, the same logic also likely applies when driving through deep snow off road. I went with 34" x 11.5" tires on mine in hopes of getting the best of both worlds.
 
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amschind

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Track is a different animal. For high performance vehicles on dry pavement, bigger tires are useful CONTRARY to the simple friction equation because the point of failure isn't the rubber-pavement interface, but the rubber-rubber interface. I.e. the tire molecules let go of one another before the outermost ones let go of the pavement. Thus you are spreading the load out over more chemical bonds with a bigger track tire. Of course, this only applies when the tire-road interface has an advantage over the chemical bonds in the tire.....so completely different from low or even moderate traction conditions (or most reasonable street driving for that matter).
 
 







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