Regular vs Premium Gasoline

[nomarhits400]

Well, there is zero doubt that my truck gets better gas mileage with the Octane booster in the tank.

I do the same commute every single morning through the TX Hill Country, takes 40 minutes. It's a favorable commute and I always get my highest trip economy on this trip, at right at 20 mpg and occasionally as high as 21. Doing this commute every morning for 2 years and I've never gotten higher than 21.4 mpg. That was after getting stuck behind a truck (there is a dirt pit on the route and it happens with some regularity) driving well below the speed limit and catching every light just right. Well, this morning, normal commute (average speed of 36 mph due to lights, school zones, traffic, etc.) and yet I averaged 22.9 mpg. This is well outside the margin of error.

Furthermore, my Trip meter that I set yesterday while running 75 mph, is currently reading 20.7 mpg whereas that duty cycle usually has me down close to high 17s low 18s. (this is a lifted Limited with a camper)

I'd also say that I feel the power is notably better.

Spending another $10/ tank is not at all cost effective, but the advantages of better economy and power are worth it to me.

How can I run Octane booster full time in this engine without causing any long-term damage?

PS. OAR in the Torque app has never budged from .3 after over 400 miles of driving, half of that with the Octane Booster.

Well, from strictly a cost perspective, if you are getting even 2 mpg better using the booster over a 30 gallon tank, that's an extra 60 miles per tank- or ~ 3 gallons of gas @ $4 a gallon (for 93) is actually saving you $12. Subtract the $10, and you're still $2 ahead!

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[Samson16]

Well, there is zero doubt that my truck gets better gas mileage with the Octane booster in the tank.

I do the same commute every single morning through the TX Hill Country, takes 40 minutes. It's a favorable commute and I always get my highest trip economy on this trip, at right at 20 mpg and occasionally as high as 21. Doing this commute every morning for 2 years and I've never gotten higher than 21.4 mpg. That was after getting stuck behind a truck (there is a dirt pit on the route and it happens with some regularity) driving well below the speed limit and catching every light just right. Well, this morning, normal commute (average speed of 36 mph due to lights, school zones, traffic, etc.) and yet I averaged 22.9 mpg. This is well outside the margin of error.

Furthermore, my Trip meter that I set yesterday while running 75 mph, is currently reading 20.7 mpg whereas that duty cycle usually has me down close to high 17s low 18s. (this is a lifted Limited with a camper)

I'd also say that I feel the power is notably better.

Spending another $10/ tank is not at all cost effective, but the advantages of better economy and power are worth it to me.

How can I run Octane booster full time in this engine without causing any long-term damage?

PS. OAR in the Torque app has never budged from .3 after over 400 miles of driving, half of that with the Octane Booster.

Are you running 93 octane plus a bottle of octane boost?

If so that’s interesting.?
I think some folks here run a combination fuel mix of 87 and E85 to end up in the high nineties. Is .3 OAR mean the timing is advanced quite a bit?

 

[SALEEN961]

Are you running 93 octane plus a bottle of octane boost?

If so that’s interesting.?
I think some folks here run a combination fuel mix of 87 and E85 to end up in the high nineties. Is .3 OAR mean the timing is advanced quite a bit?

The OAR starts out at 0, if you have great fuel and minimal knock it will adjust towards -1.0, a reading of -1.0 would be perfect. If you have lots of knock the OAR will max out at +1.0.

An OAR of +0.3 indicates that the PCM is pulling timing and limiting boost pressure due to knock

 

[Suns_PSD]

Yah, I'm starting to wonder if something is up with my app, my sensor, or maybe the tuners mess with the OAR reading.

Yes, running 93 Octane with a bottle of Lucas Octane boost. Will test for 2 full tanks and report back.

I did call Lucas and they said that it doesn't matter how much Octane boost you add, it's only increasing Octane 3 points, that's it. They said that two things cause the cat and sensor issues: 1) people like to add more than the recommended amount, 2) people often fill up at half a tank, yet add the amount for a full tank back in, so they end up building up the concentration.

They said they have seen it run for 100s of thousands of miles with no ill effects, as long as it's ran at no more than the recommended concentrations.

 

[SALEEN961]

Yah, I'm starting to wonder if something is up with my app, my sensor, or maybe the tuners mess with the OAR reading.

Yes, running 93 Octane with a bottle of Lucas Octane boost. Will test for 2 full tanks and report back.

I did call Lucas and they said that it doesn't matter how much Octane boost you add, it's only increasing Octane 3 points, that's it. They said that two things cause the cat and sensor issues: 1) people like to add more than the recommended amount, 2) people often fill up at half a tank, yet add the amount for a full tank back in, so they end up building up the concentration.

They said they have seen it run for 100s of thousands of miles with no ill effects, as long as it's ran at no more than the recommended concentrations.

Keep in mind that 3 points is only 0.3 octane, they probably meant to say 30 points, VP Octanium for example increases octane by up to 80 points.

Your app may be reading the OAR incorrectly, but a tune can definitely change what OAR you will see at a given octane. I can add in a extra 5° of timing across the board to push the OAR numerically higher by causing more knock, or I can remove timing to push it numerically lower.

 

[Samson16]

I would think that 93+3=96 Octane and subsequently an OAR of-1.0 then??

Edit: 30 to get 3 then

 

[Suns_PSD]

The OAR is 'red' in my Torque App. Pretty sure this is the issue. Thoughts?

 

[SALEEN961]

I would think that 93+3=96 Octane and subsequently an OAR of-1.0 then??

Edit: 30 to get 3 then

On my 2021 3.5EB, 93oct was enough to hit an OAR in the range of -0.60 to -0.70 when my truck was stock. After installing a 170° thermostat and CVF Titan V2 intercooler, 93oct was enough to regularly hit an OAR of -1.0 and stay there.

With a tune requesting 525HP at the crank that runs mostly stock spark tables outside of WOT, and significantly more spark at WOT (6-9° through most of a WOT pull), I'm still able to hit an OAR of -1.0 with 93/94oct pump gas.

 

[Samson16]

*nods as if he understands

Nice ?

 

[Suns_PSD]

On my 2021 3.5EB, 93oct was enough to hit an OAR in the range of -0.60 to -0.70 when my truck was stock. After installing a 170° thermostat and CVF Titan V2 intercooler, 93oct was enough to regularly hit an OAR of -1.0 and stay there.

With a tune requesting 525HP at the crank that runs mostly stock spark tables outside of WOT, and significantly more spark at WOT (6-9° through most of a WOT pull), I'm still able to hit an OAR of -1.0 with 93/94oct pump gas.

What sort of timing would you have at WOT when tuned?

I don't get a ton of safe opportunities to really lock the throttle AND examine the timing advance, but I did 2 days ago and was a bit surprised that it only had 4' of spark advance once it was good and full throttle. I get that that with the boost it has to pull timing but it still surprised me.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Well, from strictly a cost perspective, if you are getting even 2 mpg better using the booster over a 30 gallon tank, that's an extra 60 miles per tank- or ~ 3 gallons of gas @ $4 a gallon (for 93) is actually saving you $12. Subtract the $10, and you're still $2 ahead!

I'm 200 miles in since I added the Octane Boost, mixed driving, and have a solid 1.3-1.7 mpg improvement compared to just 93 Octane. The improvement is well beyond the range of what I have ever gotten for economy (with the truck lifted). I think even if I drove aggressively, I'd be 1 mpg up.

Basically, I've reached out to Livernois to find out why my OAR seems to be locked at .3 as I think I need to get to the bottom of that before moving forward with anything.

 

[SALEEN961]

What sort of timing would you have at WOT when tuned?

I don't get a ton of safe opportunities to really lock the throttle AND examine the timing advance, but I did 2 days ago and was a bit surprised that it only had 4' of spark advance once it was good and full throttle. I get that that with the boost it has to pull timing but it still surprised me.

There can be a tremendous amount of variance in spark advance from one tune to another. Some will run a lot of boost with very little timing and others will run significantly more spark advance at lower boost levels to achieve the same power.

I have a full year of datalogs on my computer at home, I'll grab some data tonight to give you an idea of what could be considered "normal" at different power levels.

 

[powerboatr]

We picked up a new 23 explorer the end of match
3.0 eco boost engine
3k miles now
Mpg has hovered 19...to 18
Tons of people with same vehicle report 22 to 25?
3 tanks ago I started using 93 exclusively in it
Guess what ? Mpg is now 20 to 21 on our normal 65mph to 45 to 30 area
Of rural Texas
Highway 75 mph. Ummm
19.2
I think here it's quality of fuel
Brookshires is all I have used.
Frugal I get points off of price per gallon ??

 

[SALEEN961]

What sort of timing would you have at WOT when tuned?

On my current tune file that is requesting 525HP with conservative timing, I generally see 6° of spark advance ramping up to 8-9° by 6000RPM on a WOT pull. Peak air load is 2.20 (19psi, 60°F ambient) at 4800RPM, and it decreases to 2.05 air load (17psi, 60°F ambient) by 6000RPM.

On a different tune running a fixed WOT air load of 2.25 (19-20psi, 46°F ambient), I would normally see 4-6° of spark advance during a long WOT pull, but this was after installing an upgraded intercooler. Without the upgraded intercooler, it would normally stay at 3-5° of spark advance.

Going back to a mostly stock tune file that has only been adjusted for my 170°F thermostat and upgraded intercooler; I'm sitting at 2.3° of spark advance at 4500RPM (2.00 air load, 15.7psi, 60°F ambient). It ramps up to a peak value of 8.5° of spark advance at 5800RPM (1.65 air load, 10.8psi, 60°F ambient).

Octane rating, coolant temps, manifold charge temps, ambient air temps, boost pressure, and many other factors can greatly impact spark advance. On particularly bad days, I remember seeing negative spark advance during WOT pulls with the stock tune.

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