PowerBoosts - Poll --> How far can you get on just electric?

[Tosh]

Yesterday I drove to the local gas station, 1.1 miles from home. Temps were in the mid 40's (F).
There is a slight uphill about .3 miles from my house: as I approach it, that's when the ICE kicks in. So .3 m on electric, .8 m on gasoline. About 11 MPG, as I recall.

On the way home, 1 mile electric (from a standing start) and .1 on gasoline. 30+ MPG. This is a rare example; more commonly I only get about .5 mile on the battery alone.

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[thudnblunder]

I imagine with 15 kWh (easily hidden safely between the frame rails either side of the drive shaft) the Hybrid could achieve much higher mpg, but that would start to make the Lightning less interesting and I think at least for 2022/23, Ford wants to sell the Lightning by the millions and not have its main competition be the F-150 Hybrid.

I have wondered about this myself. I think an add on battery will come out as an aftermarket mod eventually. It’s something I am very interested in.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I have wondered about this myself. I think an add on battery will come out as an aftermarket mod eventually. It’s something I am very interested in.

The aftermarket has to shift as quickly as the whole auto industry shifted (almost literally every auto maker shifted to 100% electric in 2021 and the few stragglers are rushing their stories in the first days of 2022.)
The aftermarket has till 2030 and then they either have good BEV and PHEV products, or they're out of business except for second hand cars and some bolt-on stuff with their brand stuck on some suspension and wheels.
I'd like to see Ford offer a plug-in hybrid Raptor engine as an option in any F-150 (or Expedition, etc.) It could be as simple as the 450hp Raptor ecoboost or add some spice with a stronger electric motor and 5kWh (or more) battery. Seems to me to be a "no brainer" to have a vehicle that's fun to drive, but qualifies for all the zero-emissions incentives (and things like access to commute lanes, and soon, access to "clean air" restricted zones in cities.)
The "specialty equipment" market is a complicated world. For a Jeep or Bronco, anything is possible, and usually ten different ways. For an F-150, not so much.
I was hoping SEMA this year would have more vendors with F-150 PowerBoost "prototype" equipment. Maybe not the piggyback battery, but at least a bespoke leveling kit (I don't think the Ford kit is available, yet) or air suspension, high-flow cats and cat-back, aux trans cooler, hidden winch, accessory cabling to route cables from the onboard power to an RV … a K&N filter … c'mon …

 

[thudnblunder]

The aftermarket has to shift as quickly as the whole auto industry shifted (almost literally every auto maker shifted to 100% electric in 2021 and the few stragglers are rushing their stories in the first days of 2022.)
The aftermarket has till 2030 and then they either have good BEV and PHEV products, or they're out of business except for second hand cars and some bolt-on stuff with their brand stuck on some suspension and wheels.
I'd like to see Ford offer a plug-in hybrid Raptor engine as an option in any F-150 (or Expedition, etc.) It could be as simple as the 450hp Raptor ecoboost or add some spice with a stronger electric motor and 5kWh (or more) battery. Seems to me to be a "no brainer" to have a vehicle that's fun to drive, but qualifies for all the zero-emissions incentives (and things like access to commute lanes, and soon, access to "clean air" restricted zones in cities.)
The "specialty equipment" market is a complicated world. For a Jeep or Bronco, anything is possible, and usually ten different ways. For an F-150, not so much.
I was hoping SEMA this year would have more vendors with F-150 PowerBoost "prototype" equipment. Maybe not the piggyback battery, but at least a bespoke leveling kit (I don't think the Ford kit is available, yet) or air suspension, high-flow cats and cat-back, aux trans cooler, hidden winch, accessory cabling to route cables from the onboard power to an RV … a K&N filter … c'mon …

 

[thudnblunder]

I see you're in the Bay Area too, the comment about access to commute lanes made me look.

I don't want to mess with drivetrain warranties and "experiment" on this myself, but if I extrapolate my limited understanding of how LiPo drone batteries work, you charge them to a certain voltage, and you discharge down to a certain voltage. You can add identical batteries in parallel and as long as they charge/discharge together, you're fine.

So if we bought a second 1.5 kWh Ford battery (not even going 3rd party, just sticking with stock PowerBoost equipment) and connected that battery in parallel to the standard battery, the charge/discharge voltages would be the same, the only difference being you could store twice the energy.

Isn't the motor itself the generator for the 7.2 kW ProPower output? If it is supposed to be able to run continuously when powering a 7.2kW electrical load, then I expect it has some form of active cooling.

I think it's just a matter of time before we see "high capacity addon battery packs" for the PowerBoost. The plumbing is all there already, it doesn't seem like a huge lift to add more battery capacity. A bigger motor is a different level of complexity though.

 

[powerboost]

I have a few tips about driving the powerboost to achieve mileage gains from reading the forums and trial and error.
1) configure your dash display to replace "oil pressure gauge" with "turbo boost gauge". The best economy trick is to avoid turbo boost (unless you are wanting to get major power like drag strip run of course)
2) the + and - buttons on shifter work in "Drive" mode to delete or add back available gears while allowing normal shifting of remaining gears. "Manual" mode just holds gears and you have to upshift with + after slowing down so it isn't as easy to get results. If I am around town under 45 mph , I will push - button and 10th gear disappears in display, another - and 9th disappears, and so on. I will remove 8-10 in city driving. Then on freeway driving, leave all 10 in play and when road begins to climb a hill, watch "boost gauge" and start dropping out top gears with - button as soon as blue boost streak appears in gauge to raise rpms. The 8, 9, 10 gears are all so high that they make engine lug and use extra gas by adding turbo boost. As soon as road levels out or goes downhill start adding all gears back with + button.
3) as soon as a downhill section of road comes along, lightly ride brakes to get engine to shutoff and drive truck in electric
4) anticipate traffic lights and lightly drag brakes when next light is red to shut off engine and slow at a controlled rate and charging battery
5) accelerate from a stop somewhat lighter intensity without holding up traffic
6) after taking off, continue accelerating until you are 5 mph over speed limit (if safe) and then ride brakes lightly to get engine to shut down and then get off brakes and drive in electric mode with light gas pedal touch.
All of these work for me but I don't hold up traffic if roads are busy. I won't be "that guy" that makes people mad. I recently got 27mpg on a 3 hour road trip over a mountain pass. It is like you are driving a video game. My loaded Lariat 4x4 PB is all stock.

 

[F-150 Prius]

I see you're in the Bay Area too, the comment about access to commute lanes made me look.

I don't want to mess with drivetrain warranties and "experiment" on this myself, but if I extrapolate my limited understanding of how LiPo drone batteries work, you charge them to a certain voltage, and you discharge down to a certain voltage. You can add identical batteries in parallel and as long as they charge/discharge together, you're fine.

So if we bought a second 1.5 kWh Ford battery (not even going 3rd party, just sticking with stock PowerBoost equipment) and connected that battery in parallel to the standard battery, the charge/discharge voltages would be the same, the only difference being you could store twice the energy.

Isn't the motor itself the generator for the 7.2 kW ProPower output? If it is supposed to be able to run continuously when powering a 7.2kW electrical load, then I expect it has some form of active cooling.

I think it's just a matter of time before we see "high capacity addon battery packs" for the PowerBoost. The plumbing is all there already, it doesn't seem like a huge lift to add more battery capacity. A bigger motor is a different level of complexity though.

The "generator" is a 7.2kW inverter drawing power from the 1.5kWh battery (not the engine.) If load is below some wattage threshold (I'd guess about half rated continuous) the engine is off until called upon to recharge the battery. It's a sophisticated and expensive system but if you're Ford and plan on building a few million in the next 10 years … it's a checkbox option on their already most popular game-changer V6 turbo engine. Which begins to explain why $F profited more than $TSLA in the last year … : )

I think you're right about "if I could buy the PowerBoost battery as a spare part" … the challenge would be the connectors and keeping the original equipment unmodified. It's a software problem more than hardware and part numbers. The spare part battery would have the same charge curve and duty cycle behavior as the primary. The complications come in plumbing the cooling and the battery management sensors, the overload, overcharge and thermal (too hot, too cold) management (the stuff GM got wrong in the Bolt fires.) The Ford R&D people that built the PowerBoost could get this done in a busy week and pick any kWh … I'm guessing 1.5kWh was the largest number the marketing executives would allow … even at 1.5, the PowerBoost is the better pickup for anything but short range driving compared to the Lightning.

The limiting factor in the PowerBoost would be the power of the motor – it would have to be capable of 100% continuous duty at peak rated output and its cooling system would have to handle that while towing or off-road in low range in a desert. But once again, no challenge, but this technology is already in production in the Lincoln Aviator with 494 hp, 630tq, and 20 miles' electric range. Beef that up to go in a pickup and Ford already has the F-150 Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle. I imagine Ford product and marketing executives said "no, an F-150 PHEV would take sales away from the Lightning" … obviously that's now proven wrong and the 200,000+ people waiting for the Lightning, well, even if 50% of them took the F-150 PHEV, it's a win-win and there's still a year or two orders to build.

Personally, I'd take the F-150 PHEV because the battery range isn't there yet for towing and hauling. But I'd like to see Ford offer then "next" F-150 PowerBoost "plug-in" on the Lightning chassis (suspension and weight reduction plus the towing specs are impressive.)

 

[F-150 Prius]

I have a few tips about driving the powerboost to achieve mileage gains from reading the forums and trial and error.
1) configure your dash display to replace "oil pressure gauge" with "turbo boost gauge". The best economy trick is to avoid turbo boost (unless you are wanting to get major power like drag strip run of course)
2) the + and - buttons on shifter work in "Drive" mode to delete or add back available gears while allowing normal shifting of remaining gears. "Manual" mode just holds gears and you have to upshift with + after slowing down so it isn't as easy to get results. If I am around town under 45 mph , I will push - button and 10th gear disappears in display, another - and 9th disappears, and so on. I will remove 8-10 in city driving. Then on freeway driving, leave all 10 in play and when road begins to climb a hill, watch "boost gauge" and start dropping out top gears with - button as soon as blue boost streak appears in gauge to raise rpms. The 8, 9, 10 gears are all so high that they make engine lug and use extra gas by adding turbo boost. As soon as road levels out or goes downhill start adding all gears back with + button.
3) as soon as a downhill section of road comes along, lightly ride brakes to get engine to shutoff and drive truck in electric
4) anticipate traffic lights and lightly drag brakes when next light is red to shut off engine and slow at a controlled rate and charging battery
5) accelerate from a stop somewhat lighter intensity without holding up traffic
6) after taking off, continue accelerating until you are 5 mph over speed limit (if safe) and then ride brakes lightly to get engine to shut down and then get off brakes and drive in electric mode with light gas pedal touch.
All of these work for me but I don't hold up traffic if roads are busy. I won't be "that guy" that makes people mad. I recently got 27mpg on a 3 hour road trip over a mountain pass. It is like you are driving a video game. My loaded Lariat 4x4 PB is all stock.

That's a great hyper-miler "how to."
I'd like all that to be in an "Eco Range" mode with user settings for things like keeping the engine off as much as possible and having a setting where pressing the accelerator reaches the max electric only performance and doesn't fire up the engine until the pedal is pushed much further or the battery is depleted.
Seems to many any intern software dev could take everything that's already in the vehicle and piece it together to implement these rules.
I really like the hyper-miler approach of anticipating traffic, lights, intersections and terrain. The vehicle already has all of these data – it might not be obvious, but it already knows every upcoming intersection, the predicted traffic at that intersection, the predicted traffic along the road, the actual traffic in its sensors, it can "see" the lights change (Tesla already does this) and it can know the road ahead for terrain (or even advise to use other routes with more or fewer uphills and downhills.) Even the simple control of accelerating into an uphill and then staying off boost for the climb (losing some mph) then accelerating downhill till reaching a "coasting" speed, shutting off and going to 999 mpg between brief runs to use the heat and inefficiency of the engine to both gain speed and recharge the battery. The vehicle could help optimize these techniques as well as shift gears to avoid boost (of course, sometimes boost is better than higher rpms.)
Hopefully even as the Lightning takes all the attention in 2022, the PowerBoost will offer some of these features. Maybe Ford will even offer a plug-in F-150.

 

[thudnblunder]

I'm guessing 1.5kWh was the largest number the marketing executives would allow … even at 1.5, the PowerBoost is the better pickup for anything but short range driving compared to the Lightning.

Leaving aside the possible cooling issues for the motor, and seeing that they don’t have to worry about cannabalizing Lightning sales, do you think Ford will come out with a larger battery pack for the PowerBoost down the line? A simple swap for an upgrade from Ford would be sweet.

 

[F-150 Prius]

Leaving aside the possible cooling issues for the motor, and seeing that they don’t have to worry about cannabalizing Lightning sales, do you think Ford will come out with a larger battery pack for the PowerBoost down the line? A simple swap for an upgrade from Ford would be sweet.

I really like your idea of an upgrade part swap. This is an easy $5K Parts Department and Service Department cash cow – and a great way to get parts and service to f'in' love electric vehicles. And Ford gets a supply of "lightly used" battery packs to test and certify and slap 'em back in the production line and cover the new warranty (batteries are a supply issue, so getting ready-to-eat battery packs, even in small quantities, is a good "win" on the back side of the revenue model.) This is "core exchange" business and the auto industry knows how to milk that cow. : )

Until the PowerBoost sales slow down, it's "ain't broke, don't fix it."
I'd like to see Ford offer a checkbox item for the PowerBoost to be PHEV (with whatever battery they like … I think the Lincoln Aviator spec … same drivetrain in a smaller vehicle with 10 miles' electric range and more power and torque … would be great for a 2022 thru 2025 PHEV pickup till the BEV pickups like the Lightning have more range while hauling towing. For now, the PowerBoost doesn't need to be better, the Lightning doesn't need to be better and it already has a version 2.0 and limited production of the forthcoming version 1.0 … so much is happening, and quickly. Ford is the big blue quiet underdog of the electric vehicle revolution.

 

[Tosh]

I'm hoping for a solid-state replacement battery to be developed. If it works for Toyota, good chance Ford will get in the game

 

[toyko joe]

I just finished a 900 mile trip, the truck has 6,500 miles on it.
Tire pressure 36-37psi
Flat - rolling hills coastal Florida scenic highways.
Using cruise when speed limits were 55-70mph and was set at 56-71mph (mostly 68 when it was 65 or 70 posted)
Temperatures 40-70 Degrees F.

Trip fuel economy was 18.7MPG <-- no error codes no warnings


First leg of the trip 450 miles traveled 9 miles were electric.
Second leg of the tirp 450 miles traveld 5 miles were electric.

There were a few spirited starts but no tires squealing, what am I doing wrong how do I ask for to inspect something just because it is not getting the stated MPG???

 

[snyce1]

Yesterday I drove to the local gas station, 1.1 miles from home. Temps were in the mid 40's (F).
There is a slight uphill about .3 miles from my house: as I approach it, that's when the ICE kicks in. So .3 m on electric, .8 m on gasoline. About 11 MPG, as I recall.

On the way home, 1 mile electric (from a standing start) and .1 on gasoline. 30+ MPG. This is a rare example; more commonly I only get about .5 mile on the battery alone.

My pb uses electric overall 9% of time . More on short locals less on long highway stuff

 

[F-150 Prius]

I just finished a 900 mile trip, the truck has 6,500 miles on it.
Tire pressure 36-37psi
Flat - rolling hills coastal Florida scenic highways.
Using cruise when speed limits were 55-70mph and was set at 56-71mph (mostly 68 when it was 65 or 70 posted)
Temperatures 40-70 Degrees F.

Trip fuel economy was 18.7MPG <-- no error codes no warnings


First leg of the trip 450 miles traveled 9 miles were electric.
Second leg of the tirp 450 miles traveld 5 miles were electric.

There were a few spirited starts but no tires squealing, what am I doing wrong how do I ask for to inspect something just because it is not getting the stated MPG???

Anything over about 55 and my PowerBoost averages below 20 and 18 is typical. Setting the cruise anywhere from 70 to 80, the instrument panel says 15 or 16 mpg and the gas pump agrees. : )
It's also typical to get very few miles per 1000 miles of freeway driving.
Around town I try to keep the engine off (I find it amusing … I probably need a better hobby) and electric miles per tank "feels good" as a sort of false economy rationalization for buying an expensive pickup.
Cold weather doesn't seem to make (much of) a difference.
Headwinds are expensive … a 20 mph "breeze" turns driving 55 mph in 75 mph and 25 mpg into 18 mpg. Driving west across Iowa and South Dakota, the freeway (i80 and i90) both drive straight into these damn gale force headwinds and I seem to pick windy days to drive cross country. It's brutal on mpg to be sitting on 80 mph into 50 mph gusts (imagine what the 18 wheelers are burning … 1 mpg? freeways are actually rivers of burning diesel floating our Amazon purchases to us … we've got to be smarter than this … )
Tire pressure makes a difference, but I don't have a quantifiable comparison. I run 50 psi hot – ride quality is fine, tire contact patch is correct, but I don't know that I'm getting more than 1 or 2 mpg "better" (if that?) … I also have 275/65 K02s, which definitely cost mpg (again, I don't have a solid apples-to-apples comparison to start declaring I know what's what … : )
I've read that door mirrors cost more than 1 mpg (but the DOT still doesn't think cameras are "safe") and my PowerBoost has the (awesome) towing mirrors (I tow a wide triple axle race trailer and a wide snowmobile trailer.) I'm tempted to fold the mirrors in when I'm not towing (and stick some additional mirrors on the edge of the mirror cap) but I'm guessing any sensible cop seeing a pickup on the freeway with the mirrors folded is going to think "well, I've got to stop someone, it may as well be this idiot."
I'm afraid I'm more concerned with my time than with my fuel budget. 2000 miles takes me about 30 hours behind the wheel. If I let my road speed average drop even 10% (which still wouldn't be 20+ mpg) adding 3 hours (!) … that's time I'm willing to buy.
I try to save money by checking gasbuddy and stopping when below a quarter tank and I'm near a station that's at the lowest price in the area. There can be at least a $1 range in price. Even at $5/gallon, that's 20% … an easy way to improve dollar per mile average by 20%.
I also carry cash. Credit cards are a disgusting government-sanctioned rip-off and terrible for $ per mile real world fuel budget.
p.s. yes, I do spend far too much time thinking (and writing) about fuel consumption … : )

 

[toyko joe]

Anything over about 55 and my PowerBoost averages below 20 and 18 is typical. Setting the cruise anywhere from 70 to 80, the instrument panel says 15 or 16 mpg and the gas pump agrees. : )
It's also typical to get very few miles per 1000 miles of freeway driving.
Around town I try to keep the engine off (I find it amusing … I probably need a better hobby) and electric miles per tank "feels good" as a sort of false economy rationalization for buying an expensive pickup.
Cold weather doesn't seem to make (much of) a difference.
Headwinds are expensive … a 20 mph "breeze" turns driving 55 mph in 75 mph and 25 mpg into 18 mpg. Driving west across Iowa and South Dakota, the freeway (i80 and i90) both drive straight into these damn gale force headwinds and I seem to pick windy days to drive cross country. It's brutal on mpg to be sitting on 80 mph into 50 mph gusts (imagine what the 18 wheelers are burning … 1 mpg? freeways are actually rivers of burning diesel floating our Amazon purchases to us … we've got to be smarter than this … )
Tire pressure makes a difference, but I don't have a quantifiable comparison. I run 50 psi hot – ride quality is fine, tire contact patch is correct, but I don't know that I'm getting more than 1 or 2 mpg "better" (if that?) … I also have 275/65 K02s, which definitely cost mpg (again, I don't have a solid apples-to-apples comparison to start declaring I know what's what … : )
I've read that door mirrors cost more than 1 mpg (but the DOT still doesn't think cameras are "safe") and my PowerBoost has the (awesome) towing mirrors (I tow a wide triple axle race trailer and a wide snowmobile trailer.) I'm tempted to fold the mirrors in when I'm not towing (and stick some additional mirrors on the edge of the mirror cap) but I'm guessing any sensible cop seeing a pickup on the freeway with the mirrors folded is going to think "well, I've got to stop someone, it may as well be this idiot."
I'm afraid I'm more concerned with my time than with my fuel budget. 2000 miles takes me about 30 hours behind the wheel. If I let my road speed average drop even 10% (which still wouldn't be 20+ mpg) adding 3 hours (!) … that's time I'm willing to buy.
I try to save money by checking gasbuddy and stopping when below a quarter tank and I'm near a station that's at the lowest price in the area. There can be at least a $1 range in price. Even at $5/gallon, that's 20% … an easy way to improve dollar per mile average by 20%.
I also carry cash. Credit cards are a disgusting government-sanctioned rip-off and terrible for $ per mile real world fuel budget.
p.s. yes, I do spend far too much time thinking (and writing) about fuel consumption … : )

I pay a lot of attention to fuel economy too. My 2018 2.7L EcoBoost was rated at 20city/26highway/22combined and I normally got 23.8mpg average per tank, on long trips I was able to achieve 26-28mpg. I only upgraded to the 2021 PowerBoost because I do a lot less highway now and I was expecting to get the same combined fuel economy as I did from the 2018 but with the added convivence of city fuel economy.

I don't know why, my driving habits on the highway have not changed, but my fuel economy is greatly reduced compared to the fuel economy rating.

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