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Big Dog Daddy
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If the truck has "built in navigation" then you will have navigation all of the time via, GPS. If it doesn't have built in navigation then the system is only relying on cellular connectivity.
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SumGuy
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I have the factory nav. 502a high build. But I went up a canyon a few weekends back and the nav went gray and said "no signal". Even when we were out and in an area with poor signal, the nav came back on but placed the truck hundreds of yards off the road.
Maybe I have a setting wrong somewhere. I will have to dig into I guess. Stupid that the truck doesnt come setup to use the navigation out of the box, so to speak.
SuvE
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If you were in a canyon, chances are the GPS signal got blocked. That has happened to me before. A marginal signal later on probably affected the accuracy.
If it does this out in the open, then different story. Built in NAV does not require cellular service.
If it does this out in the open, then different story. Built in NAV does not require cellular service.
s.v.t.
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NAV that does not utilize cellular service still requires the use of GPS satellites. Otherwise, how else would your NAV (cellular or hard drive based) know where to position you at any given time? Until we can use quantum accelerometers, you'll have issues when you do not have 'line-of-sight' signal from a GPS satellite.
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Tomatoboy
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Both systems use GPS to obtain the location. Cell phones have GPS receivers in them too, although they can also cheat some since if they know what cell they’re connected to in the network they already know their approximate location. (I suspect there’s a decent chance the “built-in” and “connected” systems are just using the GPS receiver built into the Sync 4/4a system‘s connectivity chipset)
If there’s a major difference, it’s that the connected system doesn’t appear have a permanent base map. The old nav systems, and the “built-in” nav have a pre installed base map like when you bought a Garmin and it had the map installed. The connected one seems to only get its base map via cell service. No cell service and if can’t download the map. It’s still using GPS for the location. The only thing I haven’t been able to figure out is how much of the map is cached by the connected system…as in, how long after you lose cell service and you keep driving can you expect to “run out” of map. I would expect it to be a fairly substantial amount, to avoid drop outs when cell service fades, but I’ve yet to see documentation on the map area/file sized cached.
I would echo that if the accuracy was bad even after, there’s a decent chance GPS signal was blocked by terrain in the above example. GPS is pretty easily blocked by terrain, I have had it happen many times when hiking, particularly during lousy moments in the satellites passes when they’re all mostly low to the horizon. The dead giveaway its coming or going is that my location starts jumping all over the place each refresh.
If there’s a major difference, it’s that the connected system doesn’t appear have a permanent base map. The old nav systems, and the “built-in” nav have a pre installed base map like when you bought a Garmin and it had the map installed. The connected one seems to only get its base map via cell service. No cell service and if can’t download the map. It’s still using GPS for the location. The only thing I haven’t been able to figure out is how much of the map is cached by the connected system…as in, how long after you lose cell service and you keep driving can you expect to “run out” of map. I would expect it to be a fairly substantial amount, to avoid drop outs when cell service fades, but I’ve yet to see documentation on the map area/file sized cached.
I would echo that if the accuracy was bad even after, there’s a decent chance GPS signal was blocked by terrain in the above example. GPS is pretty easily blocked by terrain, I have had it happen many times when hiking, particularly during lousy moments in the satellites passes when they’re all mostly low to the horizon. The dead giveaway its coming or going is that my location starts jumping all over the place each refresh.
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SumGuy
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I appreciate the replies.
I have driven this canyon many times in my 4runner, and the factory Toyota gps stays true the entire time. When I took my truck up for the first time, the gps lost signal for at least a half hour. When we emerged from the canyon and were out in the open with no obstructions, the gps never synced right and was several hundred yards off.
perhaps it was a fluke. We will be traveling around the mountains a lot this summer and I’ll be sure to note when signal is lost. Perhaps the comment about needing cell service in order to have a cached map is the issue? If that is the case then the trucks memory is only caching a few miles of map, which is horrid. Maybe there is a way in forscan to increase this?
I find it very odd to have no issues in a 14 year vehicle and have issues in a new truck.
I have driven this canyon many times in my 4runner, and the factory Toyota gps stays true the entire time. When I took my truck up for the first time, the gps lost signal for at least a half hour. When we emerged from the canyon and were out in the open with no obstructions, the gps never synced right and was several hundred yards off.
perhaps it was a fluke. We will be traveling around the mountains a lot this summer and I’ll be sure to note when signal is lost. Perhaps the comment about needing cell service in order to have a cached map is the issue? If that is the case then the trucks memory is only caching a few miles of map, which is horrid. Maybe there is a way in forscan to increase this?
I find it very odd to have no issues in a 14 year vehicle and have issues in a new truck.
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pbm261
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I'll keep watching this thread,
I've been having issues with the NAV on my 21. Its a Platinum with the high add on package. NAV has been intermittent. A good part of the time it never initializes and I'll get a map of downtown Detroit with a GPS icon and a red circle slash. When it works, I'll get two different states of operation. One I would call normal. The 2nd, I'll have a functioning map, but the display shows GPS icon with a red circle slash.
Frustrating.
I've been having issues with the NAV on my 21. Its a Platinum with the high add on package. NAV has been intermittent. A good part of the time it never initializes and I'll get a map of downtown Detroit with a GPS icon and a red circle slash. When it works, I'll get two different states of operation. One I would call normal. The 2nd, I'll have a functioning map, but the display shows GPS icon with a red circle slash.
Frustrating.
Big Dog Daddy
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This is just a guess, but I know if the GPS antenna is disconnected and you turn on the truck the map will open and default view will be Detroit/Dearborn or somewhere near Ford's corporate headquarters. Similarly, I was in a 2 story underground parking garage in NYC when I started the truck the GPS defaulted to Detroit with the red circle slash. Once I got to street level the slash went away and the map location corrected it self.
I'm wondering if you might have a bad GPS antenna or a wiring connection issue, possibly a corrosion issue in one of the connections.
Mtnman1
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I have an 22 XL with Sync 4 w/enhanced voice. Thats it. No navigation selected separetly when I ordered. I did not want co-pilot so did not check that box. Has navigation of some sort .
I get a "lost gps signal" once in a while.
That tells me it is not using cell service.
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Big Dog Daddy
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When your phone is connected wirelessly to your truck. I'm not sure, but I think it then uses the trucks rooftop antenna to help with geolocation and cellular connectivity.
Let me ask you this, if you turn off your phone or leave it home, what do you have for navigation when your in a dead cellular area, such as portions of western Pennsylvania?
Big Dog Daddy
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Great, I'm anxious to here what you find out. I was up in the Catskill NY area this past weekend, when I lost cellular, I checked and no google maps were available. Anyway I see your.a Buckeye I'm a transplanted buckeye, We know where we're going without maps anyway! Ha Ha...
EricR
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Two weeks ago we towed our travel trailer to Warm Lake, ID (well outside cell service) with our 2021 Lariat 501A PB. The Nav worked fine the entire way, excepting telling us we reached our destination a few miles to soon.
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