Continuing 2kw PowerOnBoard issues.

[Countryeemann1]

A huge factor in purchasing a Ford was the onboard inverter for our camper. Well, we quickly found out that certain things either don't run or don't run correctly on the inverter. The items I'm talking about run fine on any other platform.... other generators, other inverters, house power, etc. This is also not a load issue... everything we're having issues with is drawing less than 2000 watts.

Let me say that I have extensive experience in power generation both large scale (commercial utilities) and small scale. We personally own several generators, inverters and inverter/generators and have for many years.

Whatever the platform, every one of them is supposed to do one thing... produce 120 volts at 60 Hz (plus or minus a small percentage).

So our truck inverter is producing about 120 volts (good) at a frequency of around 160 to 180 Hz and it is very obviously causing problems with certain electronics.

Ford so far has been epically useless. Numerous calls to Ford and hours on the phone have produced nothing. The dealers know nothing about these things other than replace if it throws and error code (no error code). Dealer plugs in a power tool (or whatever), sees that it powers that and says it's fine.

This has been going on for several months now trying to get this resolved. Today I checked one sitting in the dealer lot and it's apparently the same way. Not even sure what to think about that.

Bottom line is we can't use this for the intended purpose and it's obviously not producing what every normal generator or inverter in America can do... produce 60 Hz power. Even $15 inverters produce 60 Hz.

Again, this inverter package was a major deciding factor in our purchase. At this point, it's been tons of frustration and I don't even know where to go from here.

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[Snakebitten]

Just to clarify, the 2KW version is on the ICE only trucks?

We hear so little about that version on the forum. I'm curious if this issue is common.

 

[Countryeemann1]

Just to clarify, the 2KW version is on the ICE only trucks?

We hear so little about that version on the forum. I'm curious if this issue is common.

Excuse my ignorance... ICE?

If it helps, this is the ProPower option available on (I believe) all the regular gas engine trucks.

As far as it being common, it looks like the one I looked at on the lot today was the same. Plugged in an RV surge protector and its power light won't even come on. lol. Plug that same surge protector into ANY other power source and it shows a green power light.

ICE... internal combustion engine. Took me a sec. lol.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yea, I was just clarifying that it's not one of the inverter options for the Powerboost. That inverter(s) seems to operate as expected. The 7.2KW version has been tested by a member here to see what it really is capable of and it exceeded 7.2KW for a very long test.

Of course it's quite a different animal and is even water cooled.

 

[Tosh]

I'll echo that statement from Snakebitten - the 7.2KW ProPower is different from the 2KW version. Mine delivers 60hz as reported by my Progressive EMS, and is capable of powering (most of) my house without any issues.

I'm not an electrician but it seems to me that 3rd order harmonics in the A/C frequency are not normal

 

[Snakebitten]

I think I remember someone else with the 2KW inverter being fed up with it and he installed an aftermarket inverter and was far happier with the results.
Again, that makes me wonder if it's a bad "batch" of inverters?

 

[HammaMan]

The 2kW is the dual alternator / 24v inverter. The 2.4 and 7.2 are the PB's which are rock solid (lighting has same inverters but can eat higher input voltage -- output operation is identical).

The 2kW version is dog poo -- I feel bad for anyone that got suckered into it. Sucks ford even calls them the same thing. Not sure how they botched up the 2kw so bad. Someone may post the results again but somewhere around 1.3kW or so its voltage starts to drop off to somewhere around 100v or so at 1.9kW. It's just a bad system.

 

[Snakebitten]

That's very disappointing to read.
Why even provide it as an option if it's going to fall that short?

I'm not an inverter/battery expert, but these days wouldn't it be simple enough to deliver a good clean 2000watts with the ICE running?

 

[HammaMan]

That's very disappointing to read.
Why even provide it as an option if it's going to fall that short?

I'm not an inverter/battery expert, but these days wouldn't it be simple enough to deliver a good clean 2000watts with the ICE running?

Absolutely -- both alternators at idle are outputting ~120a or so at the 1k RPM (I believe it's rated around 145a at 1k RPM). That's 120a+ with at least a 26v series voltage. That's over 3kW worth of power generation from the alternators + 2 of the little AGMs as surge buffers. The inverter is huge and noisy. One can get a 3kW pure sinewave inverter that's about the same size as that, for about half of what ford charges for that. Not sure if the "part shortage" had them end up with an inferior product than they intended, but the way it operates is unacceptable in my opinion.

Us PB guys are spoiled with our inverters.

 

[Gros Ventre]

The 2.4 & 7.2 kW units are powered from the HV Battery system using an inverter driven by the HV circuit in the hybrid truck. This gives these inverters some real gumption when something big is dumped on it. For example I hooked up my truck (7.2 kW) to the house to check it out. I put the Hot water heater on (4.4 kW) and it didn't even notice. As I understand it the 2 kW is driven by the alternator(s) on a non-hybrid truck. If Ford didn't set it up right it may just not quite have the gumption one needs, particularly when a big load is dumped on it.

 

[Countryeemann1]

Appreciate all the input. I'll have to do some research on swapping out the inverter. Normally would be a piece of cake but it's tied in with all the other electronic BS (error codes, monitoring, etc). The inverter itself is huge for a 2KW so I'm assuming all that extra crap is integrated.

I'm just blown away that Ford engineers have installed such a horrible system. Very, very frustrating for a new truck and absolutely no resolution from Ford.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Just went back and saw your words about 160-180 Hz... Are you kidding me?? Ford should replace your unit with one that operates properly (eg 60 Hz). This is a major failure of as delivered equipment. Of course some things don't operate correctly, they're designed for 60 Hz. The circuitry won't repond correctly at those higher frequencies. You should put in a claim under the bumper to bumper guarantee.

 

[Countryeemann1]

Just went back and saw your words about 160-180 Hz... Are you kidding me?? Ford should replace your unit with one that operates properly (eg 60 Hz). This is a major failure of as delivered equipment. Of course some things don't operate correctly, they're designed for 60 Hz. The circuitry won't repond correctly at those higher frequencies. You should put in a claim under the bumper to bumper guarantee.

I'm trying to get them to acknowledge it's even a problem. They literally know nothing about power generation. Again, they plug in something that isn't frequency sensitive and claim it's working fine.

Also, I think this may be a widespread issue. The other truck I tested on the lot showed the same symptoms (I didn't actually measure the frequency but it showed the same issues with the RV surge suppressor).

 

[HammaMan]

Appreciate all the input. I'll have to do some research on swapping out the inverter. Normally would be a piece of cake but it's tied in with all the other electronic BS (error codes, monitoring, etc). The inverter itself is huge for a 2KW so I'm assuming all that extra crap is integrated.

I'm just blown away that Ford engineers have installed such a horrible system. Very, very frustrating for a new truck and absolutely no resolution from Ford.

I have no idea the logic of the truck itself, but what I'd do is see if unplugging that sucker from its batts still puts 26-28v out at the terminals (as in the alternators are on and working, not that you're just getting the combined serial voltage of the little batts). If such is the case, find you a good 3kW 24v pure sinewave inverter and enjoy.

 

[Gros Ventre]

I'm trying to get them to acknowledge it's even a problem. They literally know nothing about power generation. Again, they plug in something that isn't frequency sensitive and claim it's working fine.

Also, I think this may be a widespread issue. The other truck I tested on the lot showed the same symptoms (I didn't actually measure the frequency but it showed the same issues with the RV surge suppressor).

Well it is a big issue. A lot of things are frequency sensitive and can be damaged by a frequency that far off. If your dealer won't get on the stick... go directly to Ford, don't pass go & don't collect $200

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