2024 FORD RV & TRAILER TOWING GUIDE

[Buyer2021]

36 gallons of fuel (7 lbs./gallon): *252 lbs.

I'm sure you know but for the benefit of others ..... the 'payload' number on the Tire and Loading Information sticker is already adjusted for a full tank of fuel per the tank capacity of the VIN-specific vehicle (part of the federal rules governing that mandated sticker information).

Nice rig!

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[fatBatman]

I'm sure you know but for the benefit of others ..... the 'payload' number on the Tire and Loading Information sticker is already adjusted for a full tank of fuel per the tank capacity of the VIN-specific vehicle (part of the federal rules governing that mandated sticker information).

Nice rig!

You are 100% correct, the base curb weight does include a full tank of fuel. That is the first thing written on Page 43 of the 2021 Towing Guide. Despite this, I always add it. I don't know why but I do even though I know the manufacturer already has but I do it anyway.

On a side note, how do you like your fiberglass trailer? I have been thinking about getting an Oliver since my Airstream is 10 y/o now and I wouldn't mind downsizing a bit for less maintenance.

 

[Buyer2021]

On a side note, how do you like your fiberglass trailer? I have been thinking about getting an Oliver since my Airstream is 10 y/o now and I wouldn't mine downsizing a bit for less maintenance.

Having owned and enjoyed a fiberglass Casita from 2005 - 2022 I'm a huge of the type. The Escape has only reinforced that preference.

My folks (RIP) were avid Airstreamers from the late sixties into the late 1990's, enjoyed 3 versions over those years, pulling with an International TravelAll and then Suburbans. Basically 'reverse snowbirds', they would leave Austin the spring and return late fall. They drove the AlCan highway when that was a serious adventure, hit all of the Canadian provinces and lower 48, even down to Copper Canyon in Mexico.

My Escape displays their Wally Byam number "16926" over its rear window, Airstream-style, in remembrance of them and their adventures.

 

[Buyer2021]

I have been thinking about getting an Oliver since my Airstream is 10 y/o now and I wouldn't mind downsizing a bit for less maintenance.

Oliver certainly offers a very nice trailer.

Perhaps you're aware, Escape now offers an aluminum-chassis '23' that might be of interest.

Escape 23 - Escape Trailer

 

[Probity]

As for Frontal Area, yeah I am slightly over (8' wide X 9'6" tall = 76). The Frontal Area Consideration recommended from Ford on Page 16 of the 2021 Towing Guide is 60 square feet. However, I know that the curvature of trailers aren't added into this consideration and they can't be because every trailer is shaped differently so the Frontal Consideration is a literal straight up and down brick wall moving through the air while an Airstream is extremely slick comparatively speaking. When towing, I would regularly get 13-13.5 MPG while others at the RV park were getting 10-11 MPG with different trailers (admittedly different engine and gearing as well). With that said, even Ford calls it a "consideration" and says "exceeding these limitations may significantly reduce the performance of your towing vehicle." It DOES NOT say it is unsafe hence, the weights discussed above.

Yeah "frontal area" in Ford's Towing Guides is an area of confusion. Ford is one of the few manufacturers that mention it regards towing specs (I know Nissan does, probably others too). My understanding is. anything Ford says about Frontal Area and all the values they list are directly related to SAE J2807 and exactly correspond with how the vehicle was tested and what it was tested with. That’s it in a nutshell.

Ford didn't come up with these frontal area values. They are not ‘ratings’ per se. They directly and exactly correspond with Table 1 – Standard Trailer Requirements of J2807. I don't have the latest and greatest SAE J2807 (not paying the $100 or so to get a copy) but have seen the 2016 version and am guessing the most recent Table 1 is similar to that from 2016. tow-test-standards-2016-02.pdf (fifthwheelst.com)

TWR = what Ford calls max. loaded trailer weight rating = the rated value for the maximum allowable weight of a loaded trailer for a specific tow-vehicle model and hitch type, as determined by the tow-vehicle manufacturer. A specific tow-vehicle may have multiple TWRs for weight carrying hitch, weight distributing hitch, fifth wheel hitch and/or gooseneck hitch. A tow-vehicle may also have a TWR for an unbraked trailer.

F150's were tested according to rows E thru J with corresponding TWR's. From 2016:

Take a look at page 16 of the 2021 Ford Towing guide. Every frontal area value listed can be directly compared with rows A through K. From Mustang to F-600 Super Duty.

Ford isn't saying "Thou must NOT exceed xxx frontal area." I think what they are saying is:

“Hey, your F150 was tested against J2807 standards, that’s why you have a xxxx lb max. loaded trailer weight rating and a yyyy lb GCWR rating. And as part of that testing it towed a trailer with a zzzz ft2 frontal area. The F150 as configured passed the tests and didn’t blow up or stop dead in its tracks or overheat and go into limp mode. Now, if you’re thinking of trying to pull a much larger parachute (i.e. travel trailers way bigger than the ones we used to test it with), your powertrain will have to work harder (more aero drag), things will probably get way hotter, bad things like overheating could happen, because we don’t know your actual towing conditions, we just know what criteria we tested it against. So, you’ve been warned, Buyer Beware.”

On a related note - assuming the most recent J2807 is not that different from the 2016 version, I'd hazard a guess the 2024 Towing Guide for F150's/frontal area chart on page 13 may be a misprint for F150 Vehicles with Trailer Tow Rating of 7701 lbs and greater. It says 65ft2 but that's the only 65ft2 value listed. Hell a F250/350/etc is 60ft2.

 

[fatBatman]

Oliver certainly offers a very nice trailer.

Perhaps you're aware, Escape now offers an aluminum-chassis '23' that might be of interest.

Escape 23 - Escape Trailer

I did not know about the Escape 23. I like it. I like it a lot.

 

[fatBatman]

Yeah "frontal area" in Ford's Towing Guides is an area of confusion. Ford is one of the few manufacturers that mention it regards towing specs (I know Nissan does, probably others too). My understanding is. anything Ford says about Frontal Area and all the values they list are directly related to SAE J2807 and exactly correspond with how the vehicle was tested and what it was tested with. That’s it in a nutshell.

Ford didn't come up with these frontal area values. They are not ‘ratings’ per se. They directly and exactly correspond with Table 1 – Standard Trailer Requirements of J2807. I don't have the latest and greatest SAE J2807 (not paying the $100 or so to get a copy) but have seen the 2016 version and am guessing the most recent Table 1 is similar to that from 2016. tow-test-standards-2016-02.pdf (fifthwheelst.com)

TWR = what Ford calls max. loaded trailer weight rating = the rated value for the maximum allowable weight of a loaded trailer for a specific tow-vehicle model and hitch type, as determined by the tow-vehicle manufacturer. A specific tow-vehicle may have multiple TWRs for weight carrying hitch, weight distributing hitch, fifth wheel hitch and/or gooseneck hitch. A tow-vehicle may also have a TWR for an unbraked trailer.

F150's were tested according to rows E thru J with corresponding TWR's. From 2016:

Take a look at page 16 of the 2021 Ford Towing guide. Every frontal area value listed can be directly compared with rows A through K. From Mustang to F-600 Super Duty.

Ford isn't saying "Thou must NOT exceed xxx frontal area." I think what they are saying is:

“Hey, your F150 was tested against J2807 standards, that’s why you have a xxxx lb max. loaded trailer weight rating and a yyyy lb GCWR rating. And as part of that testing it towed a trailer with a zzzz ft2 frontal area. The F150 as configured passed the tests and didn’t blow up or stop dead in its tracks or overheat and go into limp mode. Now, if you’re thinking of trying to pull a much larger parachute (i.e. travel trailers way bigger than the ones we used to test it with), your powertrain will have to work harder (more aero drag), things will probably get way hotter, bad things like overheating could happen, because we don’t know your actual towing conditions, we just know what criteria we tested it against. So, you’ve been warned, Buyer Beware.”

On a related note - assuming the most recent J2807 is not that different from the 2016 version, I'd hazard a guess the 2024 Towing Guide for F150's/frontal area chart on page 13 may be a misprint for F150 Vehicles with Trailer Tow Rating of 7701 lbs and greater. It says 65ft2 but that's the only 65ft2 value listed. Hell a F250/350/etc is 60ft2.

Yes to everything you just said. You have confirmed, with data, what I was already thinking....Frontal Area Considerations is just witchcraft.

I do think the 2016 and 2021 SAE J2807 results vary slightly. The 2021 is after all the 14th generation F150 whilst the 2016 is the 13th generation. The Front Axle Load Ratio is 75/25 on a 2020 F150 while a 2021 F150 is 50/50. This may have an affect on the Frontal Area but only minimal and likely negligible. Still, this may explain the bump to 65 sq ft from 60. At any rate, you are right, this is "as tested" and all of the "buyer beware" and "your results may vary" comments are still applicable.
Because I am not an aerodynamics nor a mechanical engineer and am not smart enough to do the Frontal Area calculations with a curved surface at speed with an unknown and shifting wind, I will continue to call it witchcraft and focus more on the weight with the goal being to be better than 20% on the safe side of all of the maximums.

On a side note, that is some great info and I appreciate that J2807 table.

 

[Eighthtry]

Not trying to pick a fight. You have a factual and well reasoned/researched answer. No one, or nearly no one, including me, will take the time to understand what one is doing when towing. The time you spent with that answer is well worthwhile for anyone reading this forum.

I was particularly impressed by the load distribution on your weigh ticket, and further impressed that you did the diligence to even get a ticket. I get the feeling this is not your first rodeo for towing. I believe your numbers. Don't eat any pound cake with that ice cream though.

I did between no and zero diligence for my answer, which makes it way closer to opinion than fact. Further, I have no plans ever to tow an RV anywhere, so I don't own a F250. The Queen camps in Hampton Inns, and that is a hardship for me should she be forced to spend a night in one. But that is a personal problem.

However, the F250 is a heavier and stiffer vehicle with more brake. The big diesel, which I would choose for an F250 application if I even had a choice, will also out perform anything available in the F150. The F250 will not be as close to the margin either. Kind of "how much is my 200 pounds going to push around my 400 pound neighbor" as an extreme example.

So, as a personal opinion only, I would not tow a nice RV such as yours all over the country with my F150 5.0 heavy tow package.

The only heavy towing I ever did was with my 1963 283 C10 8' bed. I have about 15 miles of experience, most of which was without brakes since they overheated two seconds after I pressed them. I was never above 30 mph. It was an insane experience, but only one of many insane experiences I had in high school, most of which were long forgotten until this subject came up.

So again, opinion only. Not based on fact. I am simply a margins guy. The more the better.

I learned a bunch with the conversation. You don't take this subject casually, nor should anyone. I now suspect the readers of this thread, including me, will tighten their due diligence as a result.

 

[lrb_35128]

I was particularly impressed by the load distribution on your weigh ticket, and further impressed that you did the diligence to even get a ticket. I get the feeling this is not your first rodeo for towing.

I learned a bunch with the conversation. You don't take this subject casually, nor should anyone. I now suspect the readers of this thread, including me, will tighten their due diligence as a result.

Yeah, but does he have a spreadsheet? <jk>

Kudos to FatBatman for laying out the complexities involved in determining whether vehicle-X should tow Object-Y. It is far from being as simple as, "if it fits, it ships..."

(Note: CD of the trailer was estimated by deriving [(Total Height - HVAC - Ground Clearance) X (Total Width) * X] where X = a guestimate for slant of the leading edge of the RV in question.)

 

[fatBatman]

Yeah, but does he have a spreadsheet? <jk>

Kudos to FatBatman for laying out the complexities involved in determining whether vehicle-X should tow Object-Y. It is far from being as simple as, "if it fits, it ships..."

(Note: CD of the trailer was estimated by deriving [(Total Height - HVAC - Ground Clearance) X (Total Width) * X] where X = a guestimate for slant of the leading edge of the RV in question.)

Actually, I do have a spreadsheet. If I'm honest though, I use it in the very beginning when I am setting up my initial weights and will revisit only occasionally if something changes. If I get new or heavier tires, I will re-weigh the truck. Once I had a camper shell/cap and I weighed it again afterwards just so I could add it to the payload and set the proper Front Axle Load Ratio (because any weight in the bed will throw that off even if it is intended to be permanent weight).

Hopefully, the spreadsheet is loaded correctly and fillable. It is just a guide and not gospel. It could do with some colors like yours though. Colors would help it "pop".

Not trying to pick a fight. You have a factual and well reasoned/researched answer. No one, or nearly no one, including me, will take the time to understand what one is doing when towing. The time you spent with that answer is well worthwhile for anyone reading this forum.

Thank you for your reply. I do put a lot of work into this when I tow. I know a lot of people that do and it's sad to say that even a lot of "experts" on YouTube with their "how-to" videos spread bad information and create bad habits. In the end, it is all math and it is the responsibility of the end user to complete the necessary research and do the math.
I used to work with a guy that towed a 30' travel trailer with a Chevy Colorado. Yeah, it was within the technical maximum towing rating but not within any other limit for the truck or trailer. I attempted to help him once but he just called me "old" and carried on (I'm still not even 50 y/o and that was several years ago). I no longer work with him so I don't know what ever happened but I say all of that to say this, there are stupid people out there everywhere and it is impossible to determine which is which on the road. Sometimes you can tell but even guys like me make mistakes. You were right in your first comment, "life is short". Watch out for the idiots, more and more are born everyday.

 

[okmurdog]

Google led me to the 2024 RV & Trailer Towing Guide at this URL from this forum:

extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/attachments/2024-ford-rv-and-trailer-tow-guide-pdf.105917/

But when I search this forum I find no thread or post relating to that document (?)

Is there a thread or post where this is document is linked and discussed?

IMO it's conspicuous that the 2024 Towing Guide is absent any reference to the optional Max Tow Axle codes XL5 / XL7 which, per the Order Guide, are required to achieve maximum rated towing capability.

Ford's towing guides are found on their fordpro.com website. The latest 2024 F-150 Towing Guide is on there, with a revision date of 01.04.24.

https://www.fordpro.com/en-us/fleet-vehicles/manuals-and-guides/

 

[Buyer2021]

Ford's towing guides are found on their fordpro.com website. The latest 2024 F-150 Towing Guide is on there, with a revision date of 01.04.24.

https://www.fordpro.com/en-us/fleet-vehicles/manuals-and-guides/

Thank you for that. Comparing the previous (12.06.23) rev with the two pages marked as revised 01.04.24 is interesting ....

• Page 19, F150 Conventional Towing, reference to the 2.7 GTDI V6 axle ratio 3.15/3.55 has been eliminated.
• Page 22, F150 5th Wheel / Gooseneck Towing, which in the previous version only provided data for the 5.0 V8 (?), has been revised to eliminate mention of the 5.0 V8 and now includes data for the 2.7 and 3.5 GTDI engines only (??)

The latter, eliminating reference to towing a 5th-wheel / gooseneck with the 5.0, is particularly odd, IMO .

 

[fatBatman]

Thank you for that. Comparing the previous (12.06.23) rev with the two pages marked as revised 01.04.24 is interesting ....

• Page 19, F150 Conventional Towing, reference to the 2.7 GTDI V6 axle ratio 3.15/3.55 has been eliminated.
• Page 22, F150 5th Wheel / Gooseneck Towing, which in the previous version only provided data for the 5.0 V8 (?), has been revised to eliminate mention of the 5.0 V8 and now includes data for the 2.7 and 3.5 GTDI engines only (??)

The latter, eliminating reference to towing a 5th-wheel / gooseneck with the 5.0, is particularly odd, IMO .

Unless I misunderstood what you are meaning, page 21 is where you can find the 5.0 information.

 

[Buyer2021]

Unless I misunderstood what you are meaning, page 21 is where you can find the 5.0 information.

Thanks, I'm thick as a brick this morning, obviously needed more coffee

 

[lrb_35128]

Actually, I do have a spreadsheet. ... I use it in the very beginning when I am setting up my initial weights and will revisit only occasionally if something changes.

Hopefully, the spreadsheet is ... just a guide and not gospel.

Spot on. Until the laden vehicle package is weighed on appropriate scales, it is no better than guesswork. (Albeit some guesses are more informed and experience-based, but guesses none the less...)

...obviously needed more coffee.

FACT: I almost always need more coffee. (...or whiskey.)

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