2024 F-150 Loud Ticking

[blazef150]

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I don't believe that's true. There's no custom tuning or bench tuning available for any current twin turbo kits on s650 mustangs. They all use 5w-50 oil on their setups while remaining on the factory tune.

Negotiating the fact that the truck 5.0l and mustang 5.0l are quite a bit different. There is no way you could run a turbo kit and not modify stock engine tune. Unless you want to hole a piston break something first run on boost.

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[JExpedition07]

Being a member of multiple 5.0 forums, it is quite common for members to use 5w-50 to help with the infamous Coyote knock and oil consumption issues. Many have claimed drastic reduction or elimination. It’s also pretty much required if you install a supercharger or turbo on the 5.0. This has a lot to do with shearing and viscosity breakdown.

Personally, I run 5w-40 and this is a great medium for my engine. 5w-20 should have never been used in the 5.0. It was never even accepted as being an option in Europe to maintain the warranty on the 5.0. The only reason Ford did this in the US is because CAFE. I can’t imagine how thin 5w-20 is after 3k miles and if you think thin / fuel diluted oil does not play a role in ring wear you are mistaken.

5W-50 makes a whole lot more sense for a blower, because the oil gets hotter and tends to have more fuel sheering/dilution with additional cylinder pressures. That has no meaningful connection to a stock engine.

The 2018-2020 model year oil consumption was corrected with new pistons and ring packs….again….nothing to do with 5W-20. Famous knock? Likely standard VCT operation in a DOHC engine being misinterpreted by the older crowd. An engine doesn’t commonly run 300k miles with said harmful metal on metal tick if it’s actually an issue. The High Pressure Fuel pump alone will tick even if you put 60 weight in it, that’s just the sound a high pressure fuel pump makes. The 5.0L is running 30% more direct injection fuel rail pressure than the EcoBoost. The V8 HPFP pump is running 3,000 psi. Yes, it’s going to be noisy as it’s right up top on the passenger side head.

The V8 PFDI system is a lot newer, and the direct injectors require more pressure with stratify the fuel charge in a manner that minimize soot for emissions. Hence, the higher rail pressure. I’d imagine since the bore of the 5.0 is larger, that also comes into play (even distribution of fuel charge).

 

[djw.pro]

5W-50 makes a whole lot more sense for a blower, because the oil gets hotter and tends to have more fuel sheering/dilution with additional cylinder pressures. That has no meaningful connection to a stock engine.

The 2018-2020 model year oil consumption was corrected with new pistons and ring packs….again….nothing to do with 5W-20. Famous knock? Likely standard VCT operation in a DOHC engine being misinterpreted by the older crowd. An engine doesn’t commonly run 300k miles with said harmful metal on metal tick if it’s actually an issue. The High Pressure Fuel pump alone will tick even if you put 60 weight in it, that’s just the sound a high pressure fuel pump makes. The 5.0L is running 30% more direct injection fuel rail pressure than the EcoBoost. The V8 HPFP pump is running 3,000 psi. Yes, it’s going to be noisy as it’s right up top on the passenger side head.

The V8 PFDI system is a lot newer, and the direct injectors require more pressure with stratify the fuel charge in a manner that minimize soot for emissions. Hence, the higher rail pressure. I’d imagine since the bore of the 5.0 is larger, that also comes into play (even distribution of fuel charge).

5w-20 was a US only recommendation and turns out to be a huge mistake. There are plenty of 18 - 20 owners who did not have a major consumption issue and this is because they ran a higher viscosity oil from the get go. The revision of ring packs was not just a “fix” this issue, it was also in relation to cylinder deactivation. The oil pump was also upgraded in 21. Don’t forget Ford also changed to say 5w-30 minimum viscosity at this point. Ford, because of CAFE, is going to recommend the thinnest oil. Not necessarily what is best for your engine. Especially if you tow and put a good amount of stress on the it.

Anyway, shearing mainly happens in the journals and other high pressure points in the engine. This is common across board. Switching to a 50 grade hot viscosity is to allow more film strength and engine protection under these harsh conditions. It’s not like you are on boost all the time. Also, the higher the difference between winter and hot viscosity the quicker the oil will shear down, generally. This is why a 15w-50 is a better choice especially if you live in a hot climate.

Fuel dilution affects the anti-wear additives quickly and to an extent viscosity, but it not as much as shearing. Between shear and fuel dilution breakdown can you imagine how thin a 5w-20 would be at 5k miles? This is bad and absolutely causes tons of engine wear, which of course enables consumption. The number one source of friction in the engine are the piston rings against the cylinder walls.

A good example is the UOA a just posted for my truck. I’m running very high quality oil in my tuned 5.0 / e40 - e50 fuel, and I was right at a 30 grade viscosity at only 2900 miles. I run 5w-40. My fuel dilution was at 0. This is had no effect on my viscosity breakdown. Ethanol actually burns off pretty quickly. Again, if you think about a 20 grade and run it 5k or some go 7k+ miles, the viscosity is probably around 5. A 5w-5 in a big v8… so when you say this has no affect on wear or consumption I could not disagree with you more. It has a tremendous effect. Check out Lake Speed Jr on YouTube. He is a tribologist and has a lot of great videos talking about everything oil. It’s good stuff.

 

[HammaMan]

Switching to a 50 grade hot viscosity is to allow more film strength and engine protection under these conditions. It’s not like you are on boost all the time

He blocked me and I don't miss him. A 50w oil at speed / towing / etc... just offers more protection. For any given speed the amount of power required matches drag. Now a turbo motor will have slightly hotter underhood temps, but a 400hp and a 4,000hp motor pulling the same load at speed require the same power to sustain it. There's some parasitic load driving a blower but if it's not under boost, it's not enough to warrant a viscosity change.

Don't waste too much energy with him - it pays dividends in the end. LSJr spells things out quite clearly for anyone to understand, but it's horses and water. The knowledge he shares by example/testing is great.

 

[KingDavid]

[

Negotiating the fact that the truck 5.0l and mustang 5.0l are quite a bit different. There is no way you could run a turbo kit and not modify stock engine tune. Unless you want to hole a piston break something first run on boost.

There's no way? There's a bunch of twin turbo s650s out there running thousands of miles, all of them are on the factory ECU which still can't be custom tuned. Modern ECUs can accommodate for changes in air flow up to a certain point and it's why those TT s650s are limited to the 6xxwhp range. That can't apply for the Roush & Whipple units as those replace the factory intake manifold with their head units, so they need their bench tunes onboard.

There are differences in the 3 production gen 4s, yes, but the oil viscosity requirements are still the same whether n/a (5w30) or boost (5w50): that's factory tuned, bench tuned, or eventually, custom tuned.

 

[blazef150]

There's no way? There's a bunch of twin turbo s650s out there running thousands of miles, all of them are on the factory ECU which still can't be custom tuned. Modern ECUs can accommodate for changes in air flow up to a certain point and it's why those TT s650s are limited to the 6xxwhp range. That can't apply for the Roush & Whipple units as those replace the factory intake manifold with their head units, so they need their bench tunes onboard.

There are differences in the 3 production gen 4s, yes, but the oil viscosity requirements are still the same whether n/a (5w30) or boost (5w50): that's factory tuned, bench tuned, or eventually, custom tuned.

Can't be custom tuned? What do you think Whipple and Roush are doing with the supercharger setup? Ford with their approval gave them the source code to unlock it and change the tune calibrations. I am sure Ford from the factory put fuel, ignition, cam phasing, etc tables in the programing to run above atmospheric pressures with any turbo setup possible LOL. If those guys are truly doing that with pressures above atmospheric then they have a parts cannon just waiting to go off.

 

[KingDavid]

Can't be custom tuned? What do you think Whipple and Roush are doing with the supercharger setup? Ford with their approval gave them the source code to unlock it and change the tune calibrations. I am sure Ford from the factory put fuel, ignition, cam phasing, etc tables in the programing to run above atmospheric pressures with any turbo setup possible LOL. If those guys are truly doing that with pressures above atmospheric then they have a parts cannon just waiting to go off.

No, they weren't given a source code, that would lead to unlocking the ECU. They're given what is basically a sandbox. They extent of their tune is limited to gt500 injectors. So they can't tune for e85 or race gas.

You seriously haven't seen people take the stock Whipple kits or fp700 kits, get them custom tuned and suddenly make a ton more power than the bench tunes the kits come with? Custom tuning allows you to tune for whatever parameters you're trying to optimally achieve at whatever limits are present. Bench tuning or off the shelf tuning is what Whipple & Roush are limited to. They give the same calibrations to every customer and it's very conservative.

You can Google twin turbo s650 kits and take a look at the offerings and the people who have had them installed for tens of thousands of miles without issue. None have popped yet afaik. Those tables don't need to be changed as the increased air from turbos don't cause any changes to exceed beyond what the stock calibration is capable of adjusting for. If it did, it throw codes, run like shit, and afr would be all out of whack.

Here's a kit https://hellhorseperformance.com/co...kit-2024-mustang-gt-dark-horse-1500-whp-rated

 

[blazef150]

No, they weren't given a source code, that would lead to unlocking the ECU. They're given what is basically a sandbox. They extent of their tune is limited to gt500 injectors. So they can't tune for e85 or race gas.

You seriously haven't seen people take the stock Whipple kits or fp700 kits, get them custom tuned and suddenly make a ton more power than the bench tunes the kits come with? Custom tuning allows you to tune for whatever parameters you're trying to optimally achieve at whatever limits are present. Bench tuning or off the shelf tuning is what Whipple & Roush are limited to. They give the same calibrations to every customer and it's very conservative.

You can Google twin turbo s650 kits and take a look at the offerings and the people who have had them installed for tens of thousands of miles without issue. None have popped yet afaik. Those tables don't need to be changed as the increased air from turbos don't cause any changes to exceed beyond what the stock calibration is capable of adjusting for. If it did, it throw codes, run like shit, and afr would be all out of whack.

Here's a kit https://hellhorseperformance.com/co...kit-2024-mustang-gt-dark-horse-1500-whp-rated

When Roush and similar others was doing the prototyping setup for their kits it was custom tuning while meeting EPA, CARB regulations, and mechanical durability while meeting these strick regulations. If they were to customize it for each vehicle then the CARB certification would be invalid unless each vehicle was certified under the same test which would be unrealistic.
When running E85 your whole fuel system needs to be setup for it due to its lower energy density and corrosive properties Unless you don't care about fuel system durability.

A naturally aspirated engine is tuned for atmosphere at sea level and mountains and posible weather variations. Sea level being the highest pressure and mountains the lowest. They might be fooling the ECM if they at higher elevation. The stock une and turbos.



Roush isn't using ford FDRS to program 2024 mustangs using their kit, they are using their own software.
https://roush.my.site.com/rct/s/article/What-is-the-ROUSH-Diagnostic-Tool-RDT

From ford authority
There are, of course, just a couple of caveats – installing this kit requires aftermarket tuning support, which isn’t yet available, and it’s designed for track use only and isn’t road legal under the Clean Air Act. However, with time, it seems certain that not only will tuners be able to dial this new kit in, but we imagine that it – or at least a similar offering – will give owners a road-legal twin turbo setup at some point in the near future.
https://fordauthority.com/2023/11/hellhorse-debuts-2024-ford-mustang-v8-twin-turbo-kit/amp/

 

[cujet]

OP, has the noise returned? Please confirm it is not related to RPM. Also, was the oil pressure OK during this?

That tick rate does not seem to correlate with what a typical rod knock at idle RPM sounds like.

Remember that at idle the crank rotates about 10 times per second, but since the combustion event occurs once every other revolution, the sound is typically a lower 5 per second or less, beat.

I'm nearby and an engine 'guy' if it helps. My best guess is that it is an accessory, a fuel pump or brake controller. In any case, the later F150's do have a reputation for ticking.

Mine does not tick, yet...... If it starts ticking I will do my best to track it down.

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