Did I buy the wrong truck for towing?

[Cobraman428]

So this is what I am working with based off the Ford calculator. 741 available tongue load on the truck, with a 616 factory tongue weight on the trailer (but I also added another battery). 7410 max trailer weight with a 6995 GVRW on the trailer. Looks like I can make it work, but too close to max for me to put 2 kids in the truck. Convinced my wife to look at some 3/4 Tons, so if she's on board with spending the money, I see no reason not to at this point. I love my PB, but in the end if I am stressing towing it or putting my family or others in danger, then it doesn't matter how much I like the truck as a daily. Another option is trading in my wife's minivan for something like a Yukon XL. As much as I'd love to get rid of the van, I don't think that gets me in any better place than where I'm at with the F150. I should also add that my wife likes traveling with water in the trailer and using our facilities when on the road, so our tanks are never empty.

Here are my numbers. If that Hitch weight is from the manufacturer then add about 100 more pounds to it. They are always low and without batteries. This is based on 10% hitch weight.

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[Calson]

The Ram will have not only a higher GVWR but also a stronger frame and better brakes and so is engineered for a heavier load.

The post does illustrate the all too common problem of people buying the tow vehicle and then deciding on the RV and learning there is a problem.

With a trailer I want to be sure that I can safely merge with truckers when entering the highway and I want to be sure I can stop safely in an emergency. I have had close calls in both situations and merely meeting the legal requirements is not good enough.

 

[sny11]

I pull a Grand Design MK200 (which is real similar to yur trailer in spec.) with my Ford F-150 Powerboost 157", 1610 lbs payload capacity. I carry about 400 lbs of tools in the truck tool box. Wife and I weigh combined about 400 lbs. I have spent a lot of time zeroing in my weight distribution hitch to get to 480 lbs hitch weight. I watch how much fresh water I carry at a time and am mindful of distributing weight throughout the trailer. I haver also pulled the trailer with a non hybrid 157" non hybrid F-150 and a non hybrid 145" F-150.

With these different pickups I have pulled this trailer thousands of miles from Michigan to Arizona to Texas from my home base in Illinois. They all did a great job handling my trailer.

I really believe you will be okay with your Powerboost as long as you adhere to making sure you have your rig setup correctly

 

[Snakebitten]

A rear anti-roll bar is probably the last modification I would make to improve handling in a bumper pull scenario.

It's more relevant in cases such as a 5th wheel/goose neck hitch where the hitch applies a force above the roll axis. Or in cases where you want to put a camper in the bed. The effect of a anti-roll bar on a bumper pull application probably is not as significant as any of the following:

1. Uprated tires such as Load Range E tires
2. Uprated leaf springs for a higher spring rate such as the leaf springs from the Heavy Duty Payload Package
3. Improved suspension such as the Bilstein 6112/5162 combo and similar products
4. Airbags

I recommended Tires and shocks before the anti-sway/rollbar. (in the post you replied to) And I stand by the recommendation as being an improvement on "planting" the truck better when towing. (as well as empty, of course)

 

[Zco1]

Here are my numbers. If that Hitch weight is from the manufacturer then add about 100 more pounds to it. They are always low and without batteries. This is based on 10% hitch weight.

What trailer? How does it tow?

 

[Polo08816]

I recommended Tires and shocks before the anti-sway/rollbar. (in the post you replied to) And I stand by the recommendation as being an improvement on "planting" the truck better when towing. (as well as empty, of course)

The limiting factor in these trucks like every other 1/2 ton truck is RAWR which is really a spring rate limitation. Even the 116-117 load index tires have enough capacity for a HDPP F150 since those have a RAWR of 4800lbs.

 

[Snakebitten]

The limiting factor in these trucks like every other 1/2 ton truck is RAWR which is really a spring rate limitation. Even the 116-117 load index tires have enough capacity for a HDPP F150 since those have a RAWR of 4800lbs.

Agreed.
And an anti sway/roll bar is a spring.
As are airbags and RAS.

I absolutely agree that an oem F150, towing anywhere near max Payload, is confronted with being under sprung and under damped.

Makes for a nice "this think rides like a car" test drive on smooth roads. Probably sold countless millions of first truck owners. And that's actually OK for the vast majority of truck owners. (at least in Texas, where a 1/2 ton truck is the family car) ?

 

[Davexxxx]

Re air bags.

The only way I'd install air bags, would be for them to have check valves, to operate independently from each other and have an on board compressor, with on / off / deflate switch and gauge in the cab.

Thats why I went with SumoSprings instead. Cheaper, lighter, less hassle, less risk of failure. About an inch of free travel before engagement, so that factory ride is still (mostly) there, when unloaded.

 

[Snakebitten]

Re air bags.

The only way I'd install air bags, would be for them to have check valves, to operate independently from each other and have an on board compressor, with on / off / deflate switch and gauge in the cab.

Thats why I went with SumoSprings instead. Cheaper, lighter, less hassle, less risk of failure. About an inch of free travel before engagement, so that factory ride is still (mostly) there, when unloaded.

Airbags are awesome for a heavily loaded truck bed needing some weight transferred back to the front wheels.

 

[Polo08816]

Agreed.
And an anti sway/roll bar is a spring.
As are airbags and RAS.

I absolutely agree that an oem F150, towing anywhere near max Payload, is confronted with being under sprung and under damped.

Makes for a nice "this think rides like a car" test drive on smooth roads. Probably sold countless millions of first truck owners. And that's actually OK for the vast majority of truck owners. (at least in Texas, where a 1/2 ton truck is the family car) ?

It really only functions as a spring when there is a lateral transfer of weight - otherwise it has no effect.

Other modifications such as a leaf spring with a higher spring rate or airbags will also do this while cornering as well.

Re air bags.

The only way I'd install air bags, would be for them to have check valves, to operate independently from each other and have an on board compressor, with on / off / deflate switch and gauge in the cab.

Thats why I went with SumoSprings instead. Cheaper, lighter, less hassle, less risk of failure. About an inch of free travel before engagement, so that factory ride is still (mostly) there, when unloaded.

My preferred solution is retrofitting the HDPP leaf springs. Will a ride a bit stiffer... yes.

 

[Polo08816]

Airbags are awesome for a heavily loaded truck bed needing some weight transferred back to the front wheels.

Air bags for the rear axle aren't really going to transfer much weight to the front axle. Not unless you're raising the rear of the truck substantially to the point where the rake looks silly.

 

[Snakebitten]

Air bags for the rear axle aren't really going to transfer much weight to the front axle. Not unless you're raising the rear of the truck substantially to the point where the rake looks silly.

Have to beg to differ.

This truck without air in the bags would give you the heebiegeebies trying to steer as you travel up and down the mountains of Colorado.

As you pump the air into the bags, you could literally see the rear lift and the nose drop. It wasn't an optical illusion. And the vast improvement in steering was real.

At least enough shift of the center of gravity forward to make a difference

 

[Chris GTO TT]

In a trailer towing scenario airbags alone can make things worse. There's a YouTube video showing how weight transfers to different axles with airbags vs a weight distribution hitch. Airbags don't really transfer the tongue weight to the front axle if anything it causes the rear axle to carry even more weight.

 

[Polo08816]

Have to beg to differ.

This truck without air in the bags would give you the heebiegeebies trying to steer as you travel up and down the mountains of Colorado.

As you pump the air into the bags, you could literally see the rear lift and the nose drop. It wasn't an optical illusion. And the vast improvement in steering was real.

At least enough shift of the center of gravity forward to make a difference

... there's a quantitative way to measure this.

Measurements on a certified scale.... basically before and after. A WDH is going to be able to transfer far more weight to the front axle than airbags can every possibly transfer.

In a trailer towing scenario airbags alone can make things worse. There's a YouTube video showing how weight transfers to different axles with airbags vs a weight distribution hitch. Airbags don't really transfer the tongue weight to the front axle if anything it causes the rear axle to carry even more weight.

Bingo.

 

[Hullguy]

And?

How did it tow? Have you kept that set up?

Ahhhh

Now I understand the Brinkley temptation earlier ?

Which bumper pull did you grab?

(If I did go with a traditional RV manufacturer, I'd probably go 5th wheel. Or at least I picked an F350 with that in mind. But honestly, the manufacturers have worn me out over the past decade)

We went with thier Model Z Air 295, which they no longer manufacture. 11500 lbs loaded. Supposed to have an 800 lbs tongue weight but it seems like you should add 400 lbs to any manufacturers claim on this!
This is our second trailer and I can see why you are beat down! The lack of any quality, or any at all, standards is frustrating! All these trailers are built by Amish workers. But they get paid piecemeal?. Finish thier quota and walk across the street to another manufacturer to start another quota. In my case, this meant the Dexter axle wasn’t torque to specs and moved. I caught it early enough, thanks to social media. Then the brakes stopped working, caused on the same axle and wheel the torque spec wasn’t followed. The mobile tech took the drum off an the guts fell out.
Brinkley is responsible for who they buy there frames and axles off. They were stand up in that they picked up the cost, including his service charge, to repair this brake issue
Drives me out of my mind being a skilled craftsman!

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