Highest Supercharged Mileage

[2whiny]

lol
From my experience that response sounds like a copout. But I could be wrong and my truck could have been misfiring without throwing any sort of code. Maybe that response only applies to Whipple issues and Roush will take a different approach. We shall see

They spew a ton of excuses like that on the FB page.

Every time someone mentions they have a side-exit exhaust pre tire, Whipple blames the failure on that, even though Shelby and Saleen trucks have them. You would think big name QVMs like that would’ve gotten the memo. It makes no sense. They say the o2 readings aren’t accurate with side exits and cause failures. I’ve got roughly 48” of pipe after the last o2 sensor with my Corsa Extreme. Common knowledge is 18-24 inches minimum is safe.

The warranty clearly states no “cut-out” style exhausts that exit pre axle. “Cut-outs” are universally known as a valve that short circuits a muffler and/or catalytic converter, they’re not the same as a catback exhaust with a proper muffler that happens to exit pre axle. If I have issues and they blame my Corsa Extreme catback as the only modification aside from the Whipple, I will explore my options with small claims.

I read a comment from a guy simply mailing signed paperwork on two different occasions and got warranty companies to pay up.

Regarding which kit causes more failures, it sure looks like it’s Whipple, but they seem to be the dominant choice for the 21+ trucks, so that makes sense. If you look around at older vehicles that have the Roush kit, they tend to have similar issues with cats.

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[Davidwnuc]

They spew a ton of excuses like that on the FB page.

Every time someone mentions they have a side-exit exhaust pre tire, Whipple blames the failure on that, even though Shelby and Saleen trucks have them. You would think big name QVMs like that would’ve gotten the memo. It makes no sense. They say the o2 readings aren’t accurate with side exits and cause failures. I’ve got roughly 48” of pipe after the last o2 sensor with my Corsa Extreme. Common knowledge is 18-24 inches minimum is safe.

The warranty clearly states no “cut-out” style exhausts that exit pre axle. “Cut-outs” are universally known as a valve that short circuits a muffler and/or catalytic converter, they’re not the same as a catback exhaust with a proper muffler that happens to exit pre axle. If I have issues and they blame my Corsa Extreme catback as the only
modification aside from the Whipple, I will explore my options with small claims.

I read a comment from a guy simply mailing signed paperwork on two different occasions and got warranty companies to pay up.

Regarding which kit causes more failures, it sure looks like it’s Whipple, but they seem to be the dominant choice for the 21+ trucks, so that makes sense. If you look around at older vehicles that have the Roush kit, they tend to have similar issues with cats.

All good info and I appreciate it.
My brother put over 100,000 miles on a Roush RT570 I had a 2014 Roush supercharged F150 that was tuned and had a smaller pulley. neither one of us had these kind of issues. Maybe we were lucky.

 

[Davidwnuc]

Update
Dealer is doing a catalytic converter desulfate procedure as the first step. If the issue is still there, then they will replace the cat(s).
Also, they tried to tell me that I needed to replace the spark plugs before they did the desulfate thing. They said it was a 15,000 mile “tube up” item and since I am so close to that interval that i should do it to prevent Roush from denying a claim. I called BS and asked where that was written. I have all the Roush paperwork and that is not one of things they say to do. I got in contact with Roush. Here is their response.

“We do not call out a specific number to replace the spark plugs. It will vary depending on how the vehicle is used. Spark plugs are good for 100,000 miles however it's always good to pull one out and visually look at the spark plug.

Depending on how the vehicle is used, I would say 70,000 -100,000 miles is an estimate on how often you should change them.”

So i forwarded that info to the service advisor. They also contacted Roush to verify.

They verified that I have had zero misfire events so the dealer will not be changing spark plugs.

The desulfate procedure is what some would call an Italian tune up. Series of WOT runs, 0-65, ~30-65, followed by a 1 hour idle. (that’s according to my internet search results). It’s been raining here…I told the service advisor that it would be unsafe to conduct that procedure today. He agreed.
I will hear more on Monday.

Side note Roush has been very responsive and the Ford service advisor has been easy to get in contact with and quick to respond. They have about 300 vehicles in various stages of service so he apologized for how long things have been taking. They gave me a loaner so i’m not complaining right now. I just want it done by the book so when there is an issue in the future, they can’t weasel their way out of it.

 

[2whiny]

Update
Dealer is doing a catalytic converter desulfate procedure as the first step. If the issue is still there, then they will replace the cat(s).
Also, they tried to tell me that I needed to replace the spark plugs before they did the desulfate thing. They said it was a 15,000 mile “tube up” item and since I am so close to that interval that i should do it to prevent Roush from denying a claim. I called BS and asked where that was written. I have all the Roush paperwork and that is not one of things they say to do. I got in contact with Roush. Here is their response.

“We do not call out a specific number to replace the spark plugs. It will vary depending on how the vehicle is used. Spark plugs are good for 100,000 miles however it's always good to pull one out and visually look at the spark plug.

Depending on how the vehicle is used, I would say 70,000 -100,000 miles is an estimate on how often you should change them.”

So i forwarded that info to the service advisor. They also contacted Roush to verify.

They verified that I have had zero misfire events so the dealer will not be changing spark plugs.

The desulfate procedure is what some would call an Italian tune up. Series of WOT runs, 0-65, ~30-65, followed by a 1 hour idle. (that’s according to my internet search results). It’s been raining here…I told the service advisor that it would be unsafe to conduct that procedure today. He agreed.
I will hear more on Monday.

Side note Roush has been very responsive and the Ford service advisor has been easy to get in contact with and quick to respond. They have about 300 vehicles in various stages of service so he apologized for how long things have been taking. They gave me a loaner so i’m not complaining right now. I just want it done by the book so when there is an issue in the future, they can’t weasel their way out of it.

I’d be very concerned with their first planned fix. They very well could kill the motor with failed cats and create a runaway condition if P0300 starts to show up. I would insist they scope the substrate on each side before they do anything at WOT. That sounds just plain dumb. Is this a big name dealer with a ton of service bays or just a small local one?

FWIW: Whipple recommends 20k mile plug intervals. They also recommend .028-.031 gapping on the colder Ford Performance plugs.

Does Roush recommend the stock plug?? Might be worth seeing if the FP plug would be worth switching to.

 

[Davidwnuc]

I’d be very concerned with their first planned fix. They very well could kill the motor with failed cats and create a runaway condition if P0300 starts to show up. I would insist they scope the substrate on each side before they do anything at WOT. That sounds just plain dumb. Is this a big name dealer with a ton of service bays or just a small local one?

FWIW: Whipple recommends 20k mile plug intervals. They also recommend .028-.031 gapping on the colder Ford Performance plugs.

Does Roush recommend the stock plug?? Might be worth seeing if the FP plug would be worth switching to.

I can insist all i want but they will only do what their procedures allow and what Ford will pay them for. If their test procedure causes an issue, they will be responsible and they will fix it. That’s the beauty of having a warranty and letting them do their thing.
I might change my mind if issues come up again but right now, i am not stressing it. Too many other more important things to stress about.

 

[fecalflinger]

Roush recommends using a 6510 plug, one step cooler than stock.

 

[Dale B]

Has anyone compared the intercoolers of the available supercharger kits? Could that be a cause for differences in the faults and cat problems?
I have only dealt with air to air intercoolers and the use of air to water systems interested me.

 

[2whiny]

Has anyone compared the intercoolers of the available supercharger kits? Could that be a cause for differences in the faults and cat problems?
I have only dealt with air to air intercoolers and the use of air to water systems interested me.

I don’t think there’s enough data to make an educated guess if intercoolers have anything to do with failures. Whipple seems to be the dominant choice BECAUSE of their intercoolers. One reason the Roush is inferior is that the size of the intercooler compared to Whipple’s is much smaller. For the 21+ Roush increased the size of the heat exchanger to help mitigate heat, but that buys a little more time before heat soak occurs on a hot day or a track day.

The Whipple intercooler on Gen 5+ blowers has an inverted design, where the brick actually sits on top of the rotors. That’s why the head unit appears so much wider than Roush’s. It’s got to have at least 50%-75% more surface area than the Roush and air passes through it twice before entering the combustion chambers. Manifold air temperatures are much lower in my 2022 vs my 2001 Lightning with a traditional intercooler because of the better design.

 

[Dale B]

I don’t think there’s enough data to make an educated guess if intercoolers have anything to do with failures. Whipple seems to be the dominant choice BECAUSE of their intercoolers. One reason the Roush is inferior is that the size of the intercooler compared to Whipple’s is much smaller. For the 21+ Roush increased the size of the heat exchanger to help mitigate heat, but that buys a little more time before heat soak occurs on a hot day or a track day.

The Whipple intercooler on Gen 5+ blowers has an inverted design, where the brick actually sits on top of the rotors. That’s why the head unit appears so much wider than Roush’s. It’s got to have at least 50%-75% more surface area than the Roush and air passes through it twice before entering the combustion chambers. Manifold air temperatures are much lower in my 2022 vs my 2001 Lightning with a traditional intercooler because of the better design.

Thanks for the information. I haven’t heard anyone discuss the intercoolers. That was one of the first improvements that I looked at when I was dealing with forced induction. I am leaning toward the Whipple kits.
It’s easy to crank up the boost to get more power, but if you don’t do it right you are in for big trouble.

 

[Davidwnuc]

Got truck back this morning with no check engine light on. The did the desulfate procedure.
Taking truck back in the morning due to check engine light coming back on after just cruising around running errands after work. P0430 again.
Service advisor said they would need to replace one of the catalytic converters. (yeah…no kidding).

for those interested in what others have found related to cat issues, i found the below thread on a mustang forum that is worth reading.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/strategies-to-keep-cats-from-melting.155761/

 

[2whiny]

Got truck back this morning with no check engine light on. The did the desulfate procedure.
Taking truck back in the morning due to check engine light coming back on after just cruising around running errands after work. P0430 again.
Service advisor said they would need to replace one of the catalytic converters. (yeah…no kidding).

for those interested in what others have found related to cat issues, i found the below thread on a mustang forum that is worth reading.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/strategies-to-keep-cats-from-melting.155761/

I’ve read that thread more times than I’m willing to admit.

I’m glad they’re getting you taken care of ??

I didn’t think their little procedure would make a difference.

Did they give you an ETA on parts? Hopefully not something stupid out there like months…

 

[Davidwnuc]

I’ve read that thread more times than I’m willing to admit.

I’m glad they’re getting you taken care of ??

I didn’t think their little procedure would make a difference.

Did they give you an ETA on parts? Hopefully not something stupid out there like months…

That thread is pretty awesome and will make me sound intelligent when I call Roush.
When I picked it up this morning the SA and I agreed that I would probably be back soon. We just didn’t think I would be calling less than 12 hours later.
I do not know what the lead time is and I assume I won’t find out until they actually put the order in. I will post in update when i find out. I’m not holding my breath though.

 

[Slyder]

Got truck back this morning with no check engine light on. The did the desulfate procedure.
Taking truck back in the morning due to check engine light coming back on after just cruising around running errands after work. P0430 again.
Service advisor said they would need to replace one of the catalytic converters. (yeah…no kidding).

for those interested in what others have found related to cat issues, i found the below thread on a mustang forum that is worth reading.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/strategies-to-keep-cats-from-melting.155761/

I've read that thread and others from other vehicle forums and it seems it doesn't matter if the vehicle is boosted (super-charged or Turbo) or N/A the cats are going to fail. It's a situation of 'when they will fail' not 'if they will fail', sadly.

I chose to go the super-charged route, so I'm the only one to blame for the choice. I'd been considering this route for quite a while, but went the Bronco route first and that didn't pan out so well. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing mechanically wrong with the Bronco but the whole process from ordering to delivery took 32 months and kinda sapped any enthusiasm I had for it.

I'm still thinking that I'll go the SPD down-pipe with GESI cats and into a true dual exhaust and make sure the spark-plugs are the one step colder and gapped towards the smaller side. I'll more than likely have the Dealer install the MBRP 4" cat-back exhaust on it just to hold me over until I can get the SPD set up ready.

I'm going to keep an eye on threads like this to keep informed as to what is happening to others.

 

[Dale B]

I still think that with forced induction where you boost horsepower by 75%, you also boost exhaust gases by 75% as well. I don’t believe that the stock exhaust system has capacity to handle 75% increase in flow. They just don’t design that kind of excess capacity in exhaust systems. It may work for short periods, but extended periods have got to cause problems.

I believe that the proper answer is to increase the flow capacity of the exhaust system. As an old hot rodder, I can’t imagine expecting to produce 700 horsepower reliably with a single exhaust.

 

[TexasTruck]

for those interested in what others have found related to cat issues, i found the below thread on a mustang forum that is worth reading.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/strategies-to-keep-cats-from-melting.155761/

I've read that so many times..... <sigh> embarrassing.... I guess I hope for more assurances or something.....

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