Weighed Rig At Scales Today... Now What?

[Gros Ventre]

Oh god welp, call the forum cops. OP is a dead man.

thththth....

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[HammaMan]

Oh god welp, call the forum cops. OP is a dead man.

You're better off ignoring him. He does dumb things like earthing his truck with a ground rod to attract lightning. He can't see my posts so I can say things like he's 12 eggs shy of a dozen and is none the wiser.

 

[Oakstone]

Here's my concern -- Your front axle is weighing in at bone stock truck weight -- no options. My truck empty has more weight on its front axle than you do with ~1500lbs of additional mass. Given the rear tire is the fulcrum and you have bodies in the cab, you've got (spitballing here) damn near 1000lbs behind the rear axle. Something is out of balance on paper at least. You've driven it however. If it's a stable tow, then there's nothing really to change. It's worth investigating IMO. This conclusion is due to the low weight of the trailer axles. If you had ~8klb showing up on them it'd somewhat justify this first swing at the scales.

It was a bit floaty in the front maybe? It’s so hard to tell when I’ve pulled a trailer about a couple dozen times in my life and only out/back twice with the F150 after getting it.
There was no sway and after dialing in the the brake gain to 5.5 it felt good stopping. Tons of power to pull over the hills/mountain we cross.

But that said I am curious if my WDH is doing very little with the current config.
When I first connected the trailer at the repair facility it was sitting very high, likely becuse my 04 Sierra bumper/ball was so much lower. So he just moved my ball down on the hitch. There was no measuring etc and I had no gear.
I think the responsible thing for me to do is load it up and go through a proper measurement setup, as much as it’ll be a couple hours and a pain to have to put all my gear/bikes on.

 

[Aron]

In the hopes of finally understanding towing capacity, I went to the local scales today while on the way home from a camping trip and got the following numbers:

Truck Front Axle- 1510lbs
Truck Rear Axle - 1900lbs
Trailer Both Axles - 2010lbs

EDIT: I think the above must have been in KG? We're in Canada and the stuff I found says KG, so I think the actual numbers are:

Truck Front Axle - 3329lbs
Truck Rear Axle - 4189lbs
Trailer Both Axles - 4431lbs

I have a 22 XLT Short Box PB with Max Tow. The weights are down a bit for stuff like food (maybe 30 lbs?), but this was a "glamping" trip with hookups so I had less than 1/3 tank of fresh water and both my black and gray tanks were negligible. This is our typical setup. We carry 3 bikes above the bed and then maybe 200-300lbs of gear in the bed. 2 adults and 1 child as passengers.

I went to some of the calculator websites, but they ask for numbers that I can't for the life of me find on any of my stickers!

With the above info and these three stickers, what would be my best bet if I want to learn how to properly calculate things?

Mostly I just want to understand a) is my current setup safe and b) what max trailer weight should I be looking at if I wanted to upgrade in the future?

I agree with the suggestion to move some of your gear to the trailer, if possible. It looks like your trailer has ~3000lb of capacity, and you're probably tight on truck payload...especially if you want to keep the tonneau, bike rack, and bikes there.

Plus, looking at those axle weights, it appears that the WDH might not be fully transferring weights the way it should be. The trailer axles look to be carrying too little load altogether, and the front axle is way less than the rear. I'm assuming based upon some of the statements that this is a brand new trailer (to you), so you probably haven't added a ton of stuff in the trailer yet, which might account for the relatively low trailer axle weights.

It looks like you have a WDH with chains; many people don't like those, but they do seem to have one key advantage: you have more ability to adjust the amount of tension provided by the bars by attaching the chains to the frame at different links. Reducing the distance between the bars and the frame by a link or two would force more of the load onto the front axle and the trailer axles. (If it's too difficult to manually crank those chains into place, you can hook up the trailer and use the tongue jack to raise both the frame and the truck, which will help to reduce the force needed to crank the chains into place.)

A tongue weight would be really helpful data point for you to have as well. If you don't want to monkey around on the CAT scales repeatedly hitching and unhitching, you can buy a tongue weight scale for about $200. Or you can jury-rig up your own scale with some scrap supplies and a bathroom scale:

As others have said, you want 10-15% of the total trailer weight to be carried by the tongue (ideally 13-15% for travel trailers; 10% is better for boats since the wind doesn't have as big of an effect). So, as it's loaded currently, you have 4400lb + the (currently unknown) tongue weight as the total trailer weight. As you load more stuff (water, wastewater, food, clothes, toys, dishes, etc.) in the trailer, you're going to use up a huge chunk of that ~3000lb capacity, so the settings that work today may not work in a year or two.

 

[Calson]

With a camper or trailer I have already taken my truck with no passengers and nothing in the bed to the weigh scales and get the numbers for the base truck. Then I go with my camper and get a re-weigh which is usually at no charge. Then when taking a trip I load up with everything in the truck and the camper and go to a weigh scale and then I know exactly what the load is on the rear wheels and with the tow hitch load included.

The main limitation with a light duty pickup is the load capacity of the two rear tires. These can usually be changed while using the factory rims to increase payload capacity at the rear wheels. I gained 1400 lbs of payload capacity with my 2500 class pickup and replacing the new factory tires with higher load capacity tires cost me about $500 net as I sold the near new factory tires on Craigslist.

 

[Davexxxx]

I gained 1400 lbs of payload capacity with my 2500 class pickup

Heavy sigh.

Ford defines payload as GVWR - Curb weight.

pg. 46.

"Payload is the combined maximum allowable weight of cargo and passengers that the vehicle is designed to carry. It is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating minus the Base Curb Weight."

https://www.ford.com/cmslibs/conten...pdf/2023-Ford-RV-and-Trailer-Towing-Guide.pdf

You may have calculated that your truck should be stickered differently with your tire choices but it wasn't.

 

[Calson]

Check the sticker on the truck and payload now includes the weight of the passengers in the cab for legal reasons but it is not practical to carry around a scale and have your passengers all step on it so you can add up the load they represent.

When I have placed a 3700 lb camper load in a truck and gone to a weigh scale roughly 80% of the load was supported by the rear tires. Knowing the load capacity of the tires and that they can support what is placed in the bed of the truck is important to avoid sudden tire failure and an accident.

I would feel like a complete idiot if I had a mechanical failure and then made the lame excuse that i had not exceeded the vehicle's GVWR on a plastic sticker in the cab. It also makes a great deal of difference where the weight is located, in the cab or in the bed makes a big difference in handling and control of the vehicle and the abilty of the rear tires to safely carry the load placed on them.

The devil is in the details but too many people lack the abilty to engage in critical thinking and for them a sticker is needed with the details dumbed down. As has often been said it is not what you know but what you think you know that ain't so that gets people in trouble.

 

[Davexxxx]

The devil is in the details but too many people lack the abilty to engage in critical thinking and for them a sticker is needed with the details dumbed down. As has often been said it is not what you know but what you think you know that ain't so that gets people in trouble.

Couldn't agree more. Let me know what your insurance company thinks.

 

[Oakstone]

I agree with the suggestion to move some of your gear to the trailer, if possible. It looks like your trailer has ~3000lb of capacity, and you're probably tight on truck payload...especially if you want to keep the tonneau, bike rack, and bikes there.

Plus, looking at those axle weights, it appears that the WDH might not be fully transferring weights the way it should be. The trailer axles look to be carrying too little load altogether, and the front axle is way less than the rear. I'm assuming based upon some of the statements that this is a brand new trailer (to you), so you probably haven't added a ton of stuff in the trailer yet, which might account for the relatively low trailer axle weights.

It looks like you have a WDH with chains; many people don't like those, but they do seem to have one key advantage: you have more ability to adjust the amount of tension provided by the bars by attaching the chains to the frame at different links. Reducing the distance between the bars and the frame by a link or two would force more of the load onto the front axle and the trailer axles. (If it's too difficult to manually crank those chains into place, you can hook up the trailer and use the tongue jack to raise both the frame and the truck, which will help to reduce the force needed to crank the chains into place.)

A tongue weight would be really helpful data point for you to have as well. If you don't want to monkey around on the CAT scales repeatedly hitching and unhitching, you can buy a tongue weight scale for about $200. Or you can jury-rig up your own scale with some scrap supplies and a bathroom scale:

As others have said, you want 10-15% of the total trailer weight to be carried by the tongue (ideally 13-15% for travel trailers; 10% is better for boats since the wind doesn't have as big of an effect). So, as it's loaded currently, you have 4400lb + the (currently unknown) tongue weight as the total trailer weight. As you load more stuff (water, wastewater, food, clothes, toys, dishes, etc.) in the trailer, you're going to use up a huge chunk of that ~3000lb capacity, so the settings that work today may not work in a year or two.

Thanks for the video!

I think I have a portable shipping scale at work that would handle 200KG, so 440LBS. I wonder if that's enough to get the tongue weight...

WRT the "stuff" in the trailer, the weight I quoted is actually with all of our gear that we've taken on several trips, less the food we ate on that particular trip out, since the weighing was on the way back. I suppose if we go worst case on the outbound I'd have a full tank of fresh and then that same weight in black/gray on the way back, but I've only ever carried a full tank of fresh once (we glamp with hookups lol). So give or take 400lbs of water weight in that worst-case full fresh scenario, I think we still have a good 2500lbs of capacity in the trailer.

 

[Aron]

I think I have a portable shipping scale at work that would handle 200KG, so 440LBS. I wonder if that's enough to get the tongue weight...

It would be more than enough to build that contraption, but probably not strong enough on its own. The leverage provided by the extended arm means that most of the weight is carried by the short end of the stick, and a proportion (depending upon how long you cut the stick) will be carried by the scale. Just cut it the proper length, and any type of scale should work--even a bathroom scale.

 

[Oakstone]

Update: I moved some gear to the trailer and also moved up a chain link on the WDH. There were a few items I didn’t happen to bring this time that could add about 150lbs to the trailer in the future but this setup was on the way out pretty much the same way we always pack so I think it’s pretty accurate.

I have yet to redo the whole WDH measurements etc. but I think I’ve made a drastic improvement in balance and believe I’m safely under my max payload now.

Previous and new weights with kg and pounds:

1510 (3328) Front

1900 (4188) Rear

2010 (4431) Trailer

Rebalance

1610 (3549) Front

1680 (3704) Rear

2160 (4761) Trailer

Looking good? Not sure if it’s worth me spending the time to do a whole new WDH setup or not. The chains are way tighter now though and I don’t know how tight is too tight. There is a small curve to the bars when attached now.
Thoughts?

 

[Snakebitten]

Bars under tension is how the thing works!

Not saying you have it well dialed in, because how would I know?
But you should be able to feeeeel the truck is more planted or not.

 

[wrgrimes]

Update: I moved some gear to the trailer and also moved up a chain link on the WDH. There were a few items I didn’t happen to bring this time that could add about 150lbs to the trailer in the future but this setup was on the way out pretty much the same way we always pack so I think it’s pretty accurate.

I have yet to redo the whole WDH measurements etc. but I think I’ve made a drastic improvement in balance and believe I’m safely under my max payload now.

Previous and new weights with kg and pounds:

1510 (3328) Front

1900 (4188) Rear

2010 (4431) Trailer

Rebalance

1610 (3549) Front

1680 (3704) Rear

2160 (4761) Trailer

Looking good? Not sure if it’s worth me spending the time to do a whole new WDH setup or not. The chains are way tighter now though and I don’t know how tight is too tight. There is a small curve to the bars when attached now.
Thoughts?

No question weights are helpful-but Ford’s WDH adjustments based on FALR.
Measure the height of the wheel well without the trailer, repeat with the trailer .
Adjust the chains to return 50% of the difference.
https://www.cars.com/articles/half-...tribution-hitches-why-and-when-to-use-454793/
This should give a starting point and adjust for taste.
(Sorry if forgot a discussion of FALR earlier in this growing thread).

 

[Oakstone]

Looks like my trailer loaded is under the recommended F150 listing on that post but pretty close. I think I’ll keep it and just get the measurement process completed sometime soon. At least my new weights seem to not be overloading my cargo capacity any more and there’s definitely distribution happening better than before.

 

[JEB]

Update: I moved some gear to the trailer and also moved up a chain link on the WDH. There were a few items I didn’t happen to bring this time that could add about 150lbs to the trailer in the future but this setup was on the way out pretty much the same way we always pack so I think it’s pretty accurate.

I have yet to redo the whole WDH measurements etc. but I think I’ve made a drastic improvement in balance and believe I’m safely under my max payload now.

Previous and new weights with kg and pounds:

1510 (3328) Front

1900 (4188) Rear

2010 (4431) Trailer

Rebalance

1610 (3549) Front

1680 (3704) Rear

2160 (4761) Trailer

Looking good? Not sure if it’s worth me spending the time to do a whole new WDH setup or not. The chains are way tighter now though and I don’t know how tight is too tight. There is a small curve to the bars when attached now.
Thoughts?

The redistribution looks good. There is one more thing you could do to dial in your WDH if you wanted to but I caution you it’s a royal pain in the ass and definitely in the category of diminishing marginal returns. But, if you’re bored. . . .

Take your truck and trailer back to the scales fully loaded for camping. Unhitch your trailer, toss the spring bars in the bed and weigh just the truck. Note the weight on the front axle. Then hitch up the trailer but do not connect the spring bars. Reweigh and again note the front axle weight. The second weight will be smaller than the first. Calculate the midpoint between the two. Now put on the spring bars and tighten the chains to get about 2-3” of deflection (bow). Weigh a third time. Goal is to see a distributed front axle weight somewhere between the midpoint and the original front axle weight measured in the first pass. The closer to the original weight you are the better. If you’re below the midpoint, increase the tension. If you’re above the weight in the first pass (very bad), back it off. If you keep doing this, eventually you can estimate how much weight each link distributes.

As @Snakebitten said, deflection in the spring bars is a good thing. Your WDH sounds an awful lot like my Blue Ox. Blue Ox recommends 2-3” of deflection. Any less and the sway control doesn’t work well. Plus, the bowing provides some shock absorption so the front end of your trailer doesn’t take quite as much of a beating. If your spring bars are straight when the manufacturer says they should be bowed, they are either not properly adjusted or they are too strong for the amount of weight distribution you need.

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