Transmission shudder

[Jdc4216]

Are u guys seeing the shudder disappear in sport mode? I was thinking my 2022 went into 4wd when I put it in sport mode? Also I believe u have to scroll into sport mode every time u start the truck? Guess maybe I need to play around some more with it

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[Bullett]

I haven’t noticed the shudder in sport mode, but I also haven’t seen it get higher than 7th gear in sport mode either. My shudder starts in 8th gear

 

[Snakebitten]

You do not have to stay in 4A in Sport mode. Another change Ford made to the Gen 14 10r80 compared to the 2017-2020.

I don't mind 4A and actually enjoy how it weights the steering and gets better bite in slick conditions. But I would prefer to choose 4A myself.

 

[Pelican]

I have a 2021 SC 3.5l and after reading the post about shudder and skip shifting I may have finally realized why my truck seems to experience a lull at times. I really notice it when starting off or up smaller hills when I'm driving more sensible. Anyhow, I discovered my transmission also skips 2nd gear, which is causing the lull or what I believe a lot of owners have termed shudder. I nearly got my ars rear ended b/c of the skip shift from 1st to 3rd. When crusing along and gaining speed I've also notoce it skips 5th as well. When down shifting, it seems to do whatever strikes its fancy. Frankly, I paid for 10 gears and I want my truck to use them. When I first drove it, I loved how smooth it was with no lull. At times it seemed and seems like it should downshift going up hills, but its probably saving me a few pennies a month by not so I'm not concerned about that. By the way, it also skips gears while in Sport mode. I believe others have said their truck doesn't skip gears while in seaport mode, so I figured I would share my different experience. Also, I have not used Tow mode yet, so I'll have to report on that later.

All that said, I'm wondering if the dealer can turn my software back to what it was from the factory and turn off the "learn" feature. Has anyone done either? Thank you in advance

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

I am having the same issue and I don't think that the F150's are crap. The problem is that from the responses we have been hearing from Ford people is that this is part of the characteristic of the 10 speed. If that was the case, everyone with an F150 would have the same issue. The fact that you are not having this issue, it's abnormal. I guess Ford's lack of acknowledgement of this issue is the source of our frustration.

For the record, I’m one of those people who claim their truck doesn’t have the issue, or rather it’s more accurate to say I don’t claim it does have an issue that ford needs to repair.

I think this is a characteristic of the truck the way it’s currently programmed, and you’d recreate it on every 3.5 or Powerboost. I think some people care more than others. To me, it’s not worth it to worry about. I know they can’t/aren’t fixing it, and I know how to drive around it. I’ve yet to have a perfect vehicle, and this is just one of those things that is a characteristic of the truck unfortunately.

Problem is, I won’t buy a ram. The only other thing I’d consider is a gmc with a 6.2. And I’ve driven a few, and the ones with the 10 speed have also shuddered, so there’s no use trying to get ford to fix it. They could replace the engine and trans 10 times, and as long as they use the software they are, it’ll shudder. And they’re unlikely to change the software because it would probably effect fuel economy numbers.

All of this is to say, I’m sorry that you’re displeased with your truck. But I don’t want you to think that there’s something mechanically wrong with yours and that other trucks don’t do it.

 

[Tsuga]

For the record, I’m one of those people who claim their truck doesn’t have the issue, or rather it’s more accurate to say I don’t claim it does have an issue that ford needs to repair.

I think this is a characteristic of the truck the way it’s currently programmed, and you’d recreate it on every 3.5 or Powerboost. I think some people care more than others. To me, it’s not worth it to worry about. I know they can’t/aren’t fixing it, and I know how to drive around it. I’ve yet to have a perfect vehicle, and this is just one of those things that is a characteristic of the truck unfortunately.

Problem is, I won’t buy a ram. The only other thing I’d consider is a gmc with a 6.2. And I’ve driven a few, and the ones with the 10 speed have also shuddered, so there’s no use trying to get ford to fix it. They could replace the engine and trans 10 times, and as long as they use the software they are, it’ll shudder. And they’re unlikely to change the software because it would probably effect fuel economy numbers.

All of this is to say, I’m sorry that you’re displeased with your truck. But I don’t want you to think that there’s something mechanically wrong with yours and that other trucks don’t do it.

The issue is definitely programming and it is across all engines, except for the 3.3, I have not read anything in that engine. Mine is a 2.7 btw. I had a 2020 F150 3.5L for five weeks as a rental and that thing was great and yes, I know it is a different gen.
I can't speak for the other owner with the shudder, but when the Ford master tech took my truck for a drive, he noticed it right away when he accelerated on the highway. The shudder was so pronounced that he thought it was a drive shaft issue. He checked it and thought the cause was undercoat over spray. He cleaned it off, but to no avail. Maybe I will ask him to turn off the adaptive learning to see if this helps.
I also had an 2013 Explore Sport with the 3.5L and it did the same thing between 55 to 65 mph, especially going up a hill. It would shudder like a low grade misfire. The dealer ran a Mode6 and did not find anything, but they did not run a power balance test. This issue was resolved when they did my timing chain and water pump. I am not sure if a reprogramming was done after the timing chain replacement, but the shudder was gone when the vehicle was under the same driving conditions

 

[Pelican]

The issue is definitely programming and it is across all engines, except for the 3.3, I have not read anything in that engine. Mine is a 2.7 btw. I had a 2020 F150 3.5L for five weeks as a rental and that thing was great and yes, I know it is a different gen.
I can't speak for the other owner with the shudder, but when the Ford master tech took my truck for a drive, he noticed it right away when he accelerated on the highway. The shudder was so pronounced that he thought it was a drive shaft issue. He checked it and thought the cause was undercoat over spray. He cleaned it off, but to no avail. Maybe I will ask him to turn off the adaptive learning to see if this helps.
I also had an 2013 Explore Sport with the 3.5L and it did the same thing between 55 to 65 mph, especially going up a hill. It would shudder like a low grade misfire. The dealer ran a Mode6 and did not find anything, but they did not run a power balance test. This issue was resolved when they did my timing chain and water pump. I am not sure if a reprogramming was done after the timing chain replacement, but the shudder was gone when the vehicle was under the same driving conditions

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. I'll be taking the truck into the dealership for an oil change next month, so I'll bring it up to them then. The folks at this dealership seem to be very knowledgeable and not in a overly confident way. Fingers crossed they know something about the transmission quirks.

 

[mryan]

I have a 2021 Limited Hybrid and earlier posted that I have the same issue, just returned from a 2400km trip to West Virginia. I was convinced that this is a transmission/torque converter issue as it was happening when the trailer I was pulling pushed me down the slopes and engine breaking in Electric mode was trying to hold things back. I needed new tires so installed Michelin Defender 275/50R22 which were on my last 3 Lariats, installed a RaceChip GTS for the drive back. Ran Premium fuel and the symptoms were still there. 1600-1900 rpm in gear 9 or 10 with slight incline. Once home I ran the BlueDriver ODBII on my truck. Report attached with interesting areas highlighted. I have sent this report to both Ford dealers as of this morning. Ford Canada has a case open however they are Totally Useless.

 

[bam2880]

I’ve been saying for awhile that it feels like a misfire

 

[Snakebitten]

I don't think all "shudders" are the same source. But I do think that most of shudders in this thread probably are.

I sound like a broken record, I know, but I think the overdrive shudder at low rpms is the drivetrain being taxed in the category of lugging. It could be combustion chamber protesting, or it could be torque converter protesting, or a combination. I just know that the truck doesn't like the gearing to be that tall under ~2000 rpms.

Even an Atkinson style motor (Ford Fusion Hybrid/Hyundai Ioniq hybrid) is happier at a higher RPM than Ford has this 10r80 running at when cruising at 50+mph.

Again, not defending Ford. They are accountable for the oem shift strategy. But it's my truck now, not theirs. I'm my drive train's best friend or worst enemy. It's up to me.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

I have a 2021 Limited Hybrid and earlier posted that I have the same issue, just returned from a 2400km trip to West Virginia. I was convinced that this is a transmission/torque converter issue as it was happening when the trailer I was pulling pushed me down the slopes and engine breaking in Electric mode was trying to hold things back. I needed new tires so installed Michelin Defender 275/50R22 which were on my last 3 Lariats, installed a RaceChip GTS for the drive back. Ran Premium fuel and the symptoms were still there. 1600-1900 rpm in gear 9 or 10 with slight incline. Once home I ran the BlueDriver ODBII on my truck. Report attached with interesting areas highlighted. I have sent this report to both Ford dealers as of this morning. Ford Canada has a case open however they are Totally Useless.

Single digit misfires aren’t abnormal, which is why your engine light isn’t on or flashing.

 

[Waterfowler]

This is just my opinion, so nothing I say is meant to offend, but I believe the reason my 2021 Powerboost doesn't "shudder" is probably because I don't allow it to.

I believe the shifting strategy that Ford labels "Normal" and "Eco" are both so aggressive at getting into overdrive that they have the truck dancing on the edge of lugging.

A few data points that I have observed:

1. A few folks report that the shudder is altogether gone in other shift modes. (Sport, for example) Even the gentleman most irritated with my posting here stated his truck doesn't shudder in Sport Mode.

2. If I allow my truck to get into overdrive (8,9,10) as early as it wants to, the rpms are so low that the Knock Sensors trigger the pcm to start pulling timing. As much as 4-6 degrees. And if I let the truck continue to cruise at that RPM long enough, the Octane Auto Adjust will be lowered and the truck will switch to even more conservative timing tables.

3. Folks have reported diminished shudder with higher octane fuel. That too fits the narrative of raising the parameters of lugging/knocking.

I am not saying that every truck that is described as having the shudder is suffering the same malady. A torque converter can cause these symptoms. Inadequate transmission fluid level. Transmission operating below normal temperature. (these 10r80's can take a very long time to reach operating temperature. As many as 20-25 miles) There are some folks that will rarely ever reach normal operating temperature for the 10r80 or for their oil. The short commute truck is kinda like a big dog that lives in a tiny backyard. It can't stretch its legs.

Nothing I have said excuses Ford for what I believe is the most likely source of poor customer experience with the overdrive ratios in these trucks. If we had a clutch and 10 speeds with 8th being an overdrive gear ratio, I doubt many folks would be in overdrive while cruising at 42mph. It just wouldn't feeeeel right to a standard transmission driver.

Based on watching my knock sensor trigger for pulling timing, I pretty much cruise in a gear ratio that is at least 16-1700 RPM's. Below that is "lugging" according to the combustion chamber.

Mine gets worse the longer the drive . RPMs 2K-2.3K at highway speeds is where my shudder happens so I dont think its an "Under Power" issue. You seem to have more technical capabilities and knowledge than myself so I am watching and reading with intent to learn.

I drive a lot, constantly on the highway meeting my sales people in different towns. 5 months with the truck and I have 13K miles already. When I get done with a 150-200 mile trip I feel like I've been sitting in a cheap massage chair in the mall for 3 hours. Literally makes you feel sick.

5 repair attempts. Issue acknowledge by multiple techs and two different service managers. Lemon Law filed, Ford is dragging their feet and 6 weeks after Lemon Law was filed they are finally having me meet with a Ford engineer but I have to wait another 2 weeks.

I've said it multiple times life long F150 owner, but there is an issue that Ford needs to address. They see it here and in the dealer repair shops, they know, but acknowledging and addressing would cost them tens of millions of dollars. Follow the money path and you will ALWAYS find the answer

 

[Snakebitten]

Mine gets worse the longer the drive . RPMs 2K-2.3K at highway speeds is where my shudder happens so I dont think its an "Under Power" issue. You seem to have more technical capabilities and knowledge than myself so I am watching and reading with intent to learn.

I drive a lot, constantly on the highway meeting my sales people in different towns. 5 months with the truck and I have 13K miles already. When I get done with a 150-200 mile trip I feel like I've been sitting in a cheap massage chair in the mall for 3 hours. Literally makes you feel sick.

5 repair attempts. Issue acknowledge by multiple techs and two different service managers. Lemon Law filed, Ford is dragging their feet and 6 weeks after Lemon Law was filed they are finally having me meet with a Ford engineer but I have to wait another 2 weeks.

I've said it multiple times life long F150 owner, but there is an issue that Ford needs to address. They see it here and in the dealer repair shops, they know, but acknowledging and addressing would cost them tens of millions of dollars. Follow the money path and you will ALWAYS find the answer

If you are "shuddering" at over 2000rpms, you are definitely not lugging the truck from the perspective I was addressing. Or put another way, 2000 rpms is entering into the heart of the torque curve on the 3.5 Ecoboost motor. And on a 2.7 Ecoboost you would be well into the meat of the curve.

I don't know the Coyote intimately enough, but it's torque curve is considerably higher than the 2 forced induction motors. If I had the Coyote and the truck was a standard transmission, I would naturally be shifting at a higher RPM than either of the Ecoboost motors.

Regardless, I believe your truck is mechanically injured. Of course I wouldn't presume to diagnose on the internet what exactly is the issue, but I don't believe anything short of part swapping is going to remedy it.
Using process of elimination I would start with the torque converter. And if it's a Powerboost, since the torque converter is an assembly that includes the Hybrid equipment, I'd just replace the whole 10r80 MHT. At some point the customer's warranty claim overrides red tape approach that's there to protect the manufacturer from over zealous part replacement.

 

[Bullett]

If you are "shuddering" at over 2000rpms, you are definitely not lugging the truck from the perspective I was addressing. Or put another way, 2000 rpms is entering into the heart of the torque curve on the 3.5 Ecoboost motor. And on a 2.7 Ecoboost you would be well into the meat of the curve.

I don't know the Coyote intimately enough, but it's torque curve is considerably higher than the 2 forced induction motors. If I had the Coyote and the truck was a standard transmission, I would naturally be shifting at a higher RPM than either of the Ecoboost motors.

Regardless, I believe your truck is mechanically injured. Of course I wouldn't presume to diagnose on the internet what exactly is the issue, but I don't believe anything short of part swapping is going to remedy it.
Using process of elimination I would start with the torque converter. And if it's a Powerboost, since the torque converter is an assembly that includes the Hybrid equipment, I'd just replace the whole 10r80 MHT. At some point the customer's warranty claim overrides red tape approach that's there to protect the manufacturer from over zealous part replacement.

What are your thoughts on my truck shuddering while towing a snowmobile trailer? It shudders from 2-2500 RPMs while in tow/haul mode. Although it doesn't feel like it, I'm guessing the truck is working a lot harder as the gas mileage drops to about 10MPG.
In the next week or so I'm going to pull the spark plugs on my truck to check the gap. Someone on Facebook said they regapped their plugs and the shudder went away..

 

[Snakebitten]

My own personal opinion is that towing at 2000-2500 rpms is PERFECT strategy for an Ecoboost. If the shudder is really a misfire, then the plugs could definitely be an issue.

But wouldn't that mean it came from the factory with a bad plug(s)?

Of course that possible, I guess.
Ecoboost combustion chamber is a violent place for plugs since the direct injection is as high as 2400psi and is pointing right at the electrode. Literally a pressure washer of gasoline. Ironically it can blow out the spark if the gap is too wide. Ecoboost gurus will recommended plugs ~20-25000 miles and a narrower gap than Ford recommends. (028-030)

And the oem plugs are very fragile. The porcelain can be fractured when installed without soft hands, so to speak. But it would be crazy if Ford was breaking them during assembly.

It certainly wouldn't hurt to get a look at the plugs to see if there is evidence of a misfire, but if the misfire was serious enough it would throw codes.

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