master cylinder question...

[tc429]

if you go here- and skip to 19:40 or so, he talks about this new master cylinder- but its on a loaded platinum... I'm wondering if its 'special' because of the bluecruise type self driving stuff, hoping my (shipped...) Lariat high has a more conventional one... this thing reminds me of the old 'Teeves' system on my 89 Mark VII, in that the pump/accumulator does all the pressure...mine always worked except one day after jumping it, moving it into the garage with a near dead battery, the red light came on- had to throw in park to stop...on the old lincoln, it was darn near a aircraft system...anyways, had read several threads on forums and facebook groups about losing brakes(but the truck pedal went to the floor- in the lincoln pedal just got rock hard/zero braking pressure) and I'm hoping the non-bluecruise types wont have this master... I tend to keep cars forever, would hate to have to replace one of these eventually anyone with a lower trim package know if this master is across the line, or perhaps auto drive/max tow type of thing...

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[dhrandy]

My 5.0 Lariat has the same one. I don't have Bluecruise, but do have adaptive cruise control. I'd imagine they all have it for the safety braking features.

 

[tc429]

My 5.0 Lariat has the same one. I don't have Bluecruise, but do have adaptive cruise control. I'd imagine they all have it for the safety braking features.

thanks for the info- was kinda afraid of that... hopefully will be reliable, just long term, hate non-servicable parts... reading about a few folks having brake failures is pretty unnerving too, thought that went away in 1967 with dual circuit masters LOL....
saw this on a nhtsa site-

2021 F150 XLT Powerboost (4x4, 9420 miles). Brakes failed while at a complete stop and truck propelled forward despite brake pedal being being pressed down. I was in a fast food drive through at a complete stop with my foot on the brake pedal and the instrument cluster went crazy, warning lights flashing, malfunction messages for what seemed like everything (believe pre-collision, ABS, traction, hill, and some others- cant recall for sure), warning chimes sounding non stop, the brake pedal dropped towards the floor board, and truck started moving forward despite pressing pedal as far down as I could; this all happened almost instantly. Pumped breaks (not sure if it did anything) but I barley stopped in time from hitting the car in front of me, and I left a far amount of room between us initially. After this, when limping the truck through the drive through (was stuck in the line at this point), it took about 10ft to stop from a 1-2mph roll. After clearing the drive through line, I was limping the truck to open area of parking lot and the truck randomly bucked (like bump starting a manual) and all the instrument cluster warnings disappeared and brake pedal pressure and braking performance returned. Just as how the issue instantly occurred, it also disappeared instantly. Despite all the warnings on the cluster, only ABS Fault and Pre-Collision show on the FordPass app. Prior to to this, there were no issues. The vehicle has yet to be inspected by Ford as the service department is booked out for bit. Vehicle has since been parked as I am fearful a 6k lb vehicle without brakes can end with loss of life. Interesting enough, Ford does not seem to share this concern as their Roadside Assistance Dept says the truck does not have towing coverage while their Customer Care Team says it does but they can't work with each other and end result is I had to prepay $273.06 to Ford Roadside Assistance for the tow to the future service appointment, and maybe Ford might reimburse it.
- Pueblo West, CO, USA



then this was on the f150 forum-
I just purchased a 2021 F150 xlt with the 5.0. I had a complete brake failure today no pedal and then rear brake lock up. Anyone heard of anything it is at the dealership now have not heard anything yet.

then this on motorbiscuit-
The latest 2021 Ford F-150 recall bucks the modern trend of waiting for a massive amount of vehicles to experience the problem before issuing a recall. The new recall for F-150 models only affects about 50 units.
This recall comes shortly after Ford issued three other recalls covering 850,000 vehicles for multiple problems in the front and rear. Also, Ford is currently unaware of any injuries related to this issue.
Basically, this recall is caused by defective electronic brake boosters. There is an incomplete cinch between the sensor and brake booster housing. As a result, brake fluid may leak through a pressure sensor and into the booster control unit.




realize its just a handful of the hundreds of thousands, but still- steering and braking system failures should be one in a million or less, my confidence level isnt great...a handful with brake failures from internal leakage thats undetectable prior to failure? steering gear lockup, undetectable prior to failure... seems the tech faith is superceding mechanical redundancy, and software isnt always the cure, but the problem... remember the recent 737 max crashes where unknown software bug prevented pitch control- or the airbus at farnborough that crashed into the trees because computer withheld throttle control while in touchdown mode... my old lincoln's Teeves brake controller never got me brakeless except the day with the very weak battery- but will never ever forget the sick feeling of a rock hard pedal and absolutely no braking action at all... hopefully this is all just new model teething pains, just sometimes wonder why perfectly functional/reliable parts are redesigned with added complexity... really had hoped it was for the bluecruise, as thats a whole new animal... but across the board? the old systems had the same collision/cruise bells and whistles...never heard of a single failure- maybe partials from ABS faults, but always had a way to brake still...steering racks seizing up I would expect a tight/warning feeling to occur before locked...back just out of highschool, I had a 81 dodge d150 - was only a yr old, put a 396 chevy in it...after changing camshaft unblocked egr passage in the manifold for better winter operation, all was good...first really hot day that summer though, it got too hot- my alternator harness melted to the egr bump on the manifold- at 45 mph, smoke/sparks/dead engine- in a panic turned it off AND hit the little key lock lever, locking the column... 45, on freaking fire, locked steering- was the longest 2-3 seconds of my life LOL getting that thing stopped...luckily, no wreck, just a fusible link/harness, but not something ever wanting to experience again... hearing of new vehicle tech causing brake/steering loss is just very unnerving. hope the '50' recalled brake modules are truly the extent of the problem long term... hope it was a fluke and failsafing has not been traded for faith in electronics...

 

[backpackingn3rd]

Just had this type of failure happen to our 2021 Lariat, we were on the highway in Albuquerque with my wife and one-month-old. It was hot (106F indicated) suddenly AdvancedTrak, ABS, pre-collision braking all lit up on the dash and the brake pedal went limp. Thankfully I knew of a usually empty, wide off-ramp and when we exited I pushed the pedal down and it didn't start displaying any resistance until 90-95% of the way to the back. Ended up locking up the rear wheels and fishtailing across two lanes. Came to a full stop, limped slowly to the edge of the ramp, shut the truck off, and when I turned it back on everything was apparently fine.

Capitol Ford in Santa Fe has had it this week and said it was "just" a software issue that required updating the stability control system firmware, body control computer, and then re-calibrating the ABS system but I'm skeptical that this will be the end of the story -no parts replacement needed.

Anyone have any good product liability lawyers in the meantime?

 

[tc429]

sorry- and kinda worried- to hear this happened again. way it sounds, when the darn thing fails the parking brake locks up, read of a couple doing it. bean counters are going to bankrupt ford, I swear. as these age this is going to be a issue.
I just dont get it- margins are huge on trucks, but they made this flaky brake system, reverted to a 1939 3/4 float axle for max tow, and now what had always been a couple trusted/failsafe designs are no more... ive always been a ford guy, but aint gonna be a fanboy who thinks they can do no wrong- these types of engineering mistakes could put them under...this is their bread and butter product, and penny pinchers > engineers apparently

 

[SRHAGEN]

sorry- and kinda worried- to hear this happened again. way it sounds, when the darn thing fails the parking brake locks up, read of a couple doing it. bean counters are going to bankrupt ford, I swear. as these age this is going to be a issue.
I just dont get it- margins are huge on trucks, but they made this flaky brake system, reverted to a 1939 3/4 float axle for max tow, and now what had always been a couple trusted/failsafe designs are no more... ive always been a ford guy, but aint gonna be a fanboy who thinks they can do no wrong- these types of engineering mistakes could put them under...this is their bread and butter product, and penny pinchers > engineers apparently

I have a 22 XLT 4x4 V8. Mine has the same master cyl. two days ago my parking brake set for no reason while slowing to a stop. I thought it had something to do with smart towing feature. I had just unhooked my trailer and was moving the truck. Pedal seemed to not work and elec parking brake came on with out me doing anything. It was 98f . I dismissed it because I shut off and restarted and everything was normal. But I was sure confused by the parking brake setting without me asking it to.

 

[psambrose]

I have a 22 XLT 4x4 V8. Mine has the same master cyl. two days ago my parking brake set for no reason while slowing to a stop. I thought it had something to do with smart towing feature. I had just unhooked my trailer and was moving the truck. Pedal seemed to not work and elec parking brake came on with out me doing anything. It was 98f . I dismissed it because I shut off and restarted and everything was normal. But I was sure confused by the parking brake setting without me asking it to.

That's crazy! Imagine if that happened while you were traveling at high speed on a curvy mountain road.

 

[SRHAGEN]

That's crazy! Imagine if that happened while you were traveling at high speed on a curvy mountain road.

It didn’t seem so intrusive but yeah if that’s a possibility I’d be in trouble. I’ve had some other QWERky elec stuff happen too. Frozen display not possible to reset and AC not working dash 4.2“ display lock up both when truck was under 1000 miles. Had to remove battery connection and it reset. No more issues. Now I’m getting a little concerned. My 2016 xl v8 had similar stuff dome lights stuck on AC didn’t work but reconnecting battery always reset it. I know it shouldn’t happen but it was always no biggie.
I gotta say I like the new brakes compared to prev truck. So much better. I sure can’t deal with a random E Brake.

 

[towpro]

I stopped in a stone parking lot to talk to my brother. When I started moving I got to about 3mph and the parking brake came on and locked rear wheels bringing me to a stop. Than parking brake released
I still think there is a ghost in my electrical system. So far the sync system as rebooted going down the road
22 with 3000 miles (2500 mile trip last week)

 

[22Lariat]

Well this thread is terrifying.

For me its been:
Frozen evaporator less than 3 weeks of ownership. Then sunroof wouldn't retract due to raised rivet in the track. Then the lane centering randomly swerved us into another lane going 75 on the interstate.

Now reading about unintended tailgate opening and now THIS!! WTH ford!?? I really like my 22, but damn these issues are getting out of hand!

 

[LaHerencia]

Scary! The e-parking brake is something I do not like. I prefer a cable operated unit. My XL just started giving me the "no reverse brake assistance", hope this isn't related to the software issue.

 

[Snakebitten]

I have a railroad crossing in town that I often find myself waiting at. I love the ACC feature where I can set it at 15mph and it holds the truck "stopped" behind the vehicle in front of me, allowing me to remove my foot from the brake at traffic stops. However, if enough time lapses in this state, the truck will engage the emergency brake and notify me on the screen.

It's as if the software is programmed to switch to the emergency brake method of holding the truck in position rather than using the computer applied hydraulic braking method for long-term braking.

I'm only describing this in context to this thread to illustrate that there definitely appears to be ample opportunity for software-logic to participate in braking and thus result in unintended consequences.

As consumers we are naturally going to have a love/hate relationship with all this technology stuffed into our most recent products. I want it, but I also fear it.

 

[towpro]

Well this thread is terrifying.
Then the lane centering randomly swerved us into another lane going 75 on the interstate.

going down a 35 mph road tonight, in Right lane, we go through an S turn that has a cross road on both sides of the S. I am using the adaptive cruse, after last intersection it lights up red on dash with "canceled" (which is does way to often). I felt a little pull on the wheel and I let go thinking it might be alignment pull, dam the wheel turned hard left and crossed into the passenger lane, I grabbed on before it started over the concrete barrier strip.
Does anybody else feel like we are beta testing software?
at this rate I hope they don't release blue cruise because its going to kill people.

 

[Snakebitten]

Bluecruise has been released for many months now.
Still, I don't let the truck have autonomy. Doubt I ever will.

 

[hotrodmex]

I am using the adaptive cruse, after last intersection it lights up red on dash with "canceled" (which is does way to often). I felt a little pull on the wheel and I let go thinking it might be alignment pull, dam the wheel turned hard left and crossed into the passenger lane, I grabbed on before it started over the concrete barrier strip.

So, the system told you it cancelled, then you let go of the steering wheel when you felt something tug at the steering?

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