Bait and switch?

[FrankThompson]

I will admit that they could have handled it differently. Say, if you can't get the seats you wanted in a platinum, offer to add them in later at no cost. It would hurt Ford a bit to do that, but it would be a good option. Again though, if they feel that they may never be able to source those parts again, I get their decision to just remove. You'd be pissed if 5 years after paying for a feature, you never go it :cough cough:: Tesla self driving ::cough cough:

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[bossboy302]

LOL I'll leave that up to you. Squeaky wheel gets the grease!
It's up to the manufacturers to drop features, they don't have to. For some reason you've been brainwashed into thinking it's the only way for them to operate, which it's not... It's just the best way for them to maximize profits while screwing (in your case maybe literally?) over their customers. They could just simply stop taking orders (ie Tesla) when they realize they can't deliver what customers expect in a reasonable time. Ford and any other company that drops features like this is simply prioritizing profits over customer experience, full stop.

"It's up to the manufacturers to drop features...."

Really, you think it's random? You think they just woke up one morning and said 'Hey, let's cut off all multi-contour seats and see if we can get away with it'

They can not install features for which they can not get parts and pieces!

"'They could simply stop taking orders..."

Yeah, let's do that. Why not just shut down the plant and lay off 40k workers because we can't build a product to the exact specifications of (insert name)?

 

[that1guy]

"It's up to the manufacturers to drop features...."

Really, you think it's random? You think they just woke up one morning and said 'Hey, let's cut off all multi-contour seats and see if we can get away with it'

They can not install features for which they can not get parts and pieces!

"'They could simply stop taking orders..."

Yeah, let's do that. Why not just shut down the plant and lay off 40k workers because we can't build a product to the exact specifications of (insert name)?

I appreciate your opinion, but I'm not interested in discussing the logistics of the current supply chain situation, it's an unfortunate situation that some companies are handling better than others - I'll put Ford in the latter category and leave it at that.
What I am wondering is if their practices are going against any consumer protection laws and are legally actionable.

 

[thevofl]

OK. Here's my story (once again). Original order was 5/1/21 (not a typo). It got bumped to a 22MY in October. Since then I have not changed my order in any significant way (no change to engine, trim, or length). Ford decided to change my order at the beginning of May, taking away the max recline seats the key reason why I went with a Platinum over Lariat. Along with other features I was looking for being removed, Ford then made me responsible for the inflationary price increases. They took away adaptive steering ($1000), the tonneau cover ($1695), max recline seats ($340), and spray in bed liner ($595). Together with the two credits for the seats ($300) and the active park assist ($365), my MSRP should have dropped $4,295. Now because Ford is having me responsible for the price increases of $4,190.

Just so no one has to do the math in their heads, the final price of my order from 10/21 decreased only $105 when they removed the adaptive steering, the tonneau cover, the max recline active motion seating, bed liner, and active park assist. My dealer told me that no reduction for price protection will be honored, and blamed it all on Ford.

So I was promised one price for a build I made last year (the bait) and I am getting a Platinum with key features stripped way (the switch), so many features that I call it a Tungsten now. I can't even downgrade the trim to a Lariat (since I won't be getting the seats I upgraded for) without accepting the increase in cost.

Once the window sticker is available, and "everything is in the system once again" (whatever that means) I will continue the argument with Ford and the dealership. If need be, I will contact the local city attorney, media, etc. I will make so much fucking noise. Naturally I will post my story of what happens here.

 

[that1guy]

OK. Here's my story (once again). Original order was 5/1/21 (not a typo). It got bumped to a 22MY in October. Since then I have not changed my order in any significant way (no change to engine, trim, or length). Ford decided to change my order at the beginning of May, taking away the max recline seats the key reason why I went with a Platinum over Lariat. Along with other features I was looking for being removed, Ford then made me responsible for the inflationary price increases. They took away adaptive steering ($1000), the tonneau cover ($1695), max recline seats ($340), and spray in bed liner ($595). Together with the two credits for the seats ($300) and the active park assist ($365), my MSRP should have dropped $4,295. Now because Ford is having me responsible for the price increases of $4,190.

Just so no one has to do the math in their heads, the final price of my order from 10/21 decreased only $105 when they removed the adaptive steering, the tonneau cover, the max recline active motion seating, bed liner, and active park assist. My dealer told me that no reduction for price protection will be honored, and blamed it all on Ford.

So I was promised one price for a build I made last year (the bait) and I am getting a Platinum with key features stripped way (the switch), so many features that I call it a Tungsten now. I can't even downgrade the trim to a Lariat (since I won't be getting the seats I upgraded for) without accepting the increase in cost.

Once the window sticker is available, and "everything is in the system once again" (whatever that means) I will continue the argument with Ford and the dealership. If need be, I will contact the local city attorney, media, etc. I will make so much fucking noise. Naturally I will post my story of what happens here.

THIS is what I am trying to discuss! If anyone still thinks Ford has the consumer's best interest in mind, please re-read this story. I feel like if stories like this keep popping up and consumers don't just willingly "take it in the pipe" there could be a class action lawsuit

 

[Kidder]

OK. Here's my story (once again). Original order was 5/1/21 (not a typo). It got bumped to a 22MY in October. Since then I have not changed my order in any significant way (no change to engine, trim, or length). Ford decided to change my order at the beginning of May, taking away the max recline seats the key reason why I went with a Platinum over Lariat. Along with other features I was looking for being removed, Ford then made me responsible for the inflationary price increases. They took away adaptive steering ($1000), the tonneau cover ($1695), max recline seats ($340), and spray in bed liner ($595). Together with the two credits for the seats ($300) and the active park assist ($365), my MSRP should have dropped $4,295. Now because Ford is having me responsible for the price increases of $4,190.

Just so no one has to do the math in their heads, the final price of my order from 10/21 decreased only $105 when they removed the adaptive steering, the tonneau cover, the max recline active motion seating, bed liner, and active park assist. My dealer told me that no reduction for price protection will be honored, and blamed it all on Ford.

So I was promised one price for a build I made last year (the bait) and I am getting a Platinum with key features stripped way (the switch), so many features that I call it a Tungsten now. I can't even downgrade the trim to a Lariat (since I won't be getting the seats I upgraded for) without accepting the increase in cost.

Once the window sticker is available, and "everything is in the system once again" (whatever that means) I will continue the argument with Ford and the dealership. If need be, I will contact the local city attorney, media, etc. I will make so much fucking noise. Naturally I will post my story of what happens here.

I guess I don't understand why you're being charged the price increase. The price should lock in at order time. The MSRP of my ordered Lariat went up twice since my order but I was locked in at the original price which is what I signed/agreed to. I ordered from Granger, BTW.

 

[TJE]

I guess I don't understand why you're being charged the price increase. The price should lock in at order time. The MSRP of my ordered Lariat went up twice since my order but I was locked in at the original price which is what I signed/agreed to. I ordered from Granger, BTW.

What I learned (at least on the Tremor Forums), is that apparently not everyone's dealer is honoring the original price. My dealer had me sign a price lock, that isn't the case everywhere, or so I've seen. Some people have had to take documentation from Ford to show their dealers that the original price is supposed to be honored, with varying degrees of success.

 

[FrankThompson]

What I am wondering is if their practices are going against any consumer protection laws and are legally actionable.

No, IMO, they are not. You haven't paid for anything, at the time of you ordering they had the best intentions of giving you what you ordered.

They are not luring you in and forcing you to or asking you to pay a higher price.

I do really feel that @thevofl's situation sucks, but I also believe it is the exception not the rule. Doesn't make it any better for them. I also would contact Ford if I were them and ask why they did not get their price protection. Even those that went from 21MY to 22MY I think got $3500 off to cover increases.

Again, it's why when I saw all the removals I jumped on the one I found on a lot that was 99% of what I wanted and I'm happy with that trade off. I won't say Ford handled it the best, but I completely understand the decisions behind why they did it.

 

[jfried]

I get what you're saying but you're kinda missing the point. Ford should have been able to anticipate shortages and the fact that they were going to have to drop features, or stop taking new orders that would take priority over lower trim levels once it was clear they would have to remove features. Stringing customers along for months, locking them into a decision, then dropping features is unacceptable business practice. I am happy to wait on my order but would have gone a different direction if I knew they'd drop features that I want - so I feel they robbed me of being able to make an informed decision and consideration of their competition

This.

If a company knowingly advertises / agree to sell something that they figure will sell 100 trucks, but only have 10 available, that's absolutely bait & switch.

However, if they only believe (prior to agreeing to sell) that they'd sell 10, and demand is unexpectedly high, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The problem here is -- Ford accepted orders for these trucks many months ago. It isn't reasonable to have them update quantities by the second, but by the week absolutely is. As soon as Ford sold more trucks than they had multicontour modules coming in for, they should have no longer accepted orders without the multicontour delete.... and dealt with the few customers that got caught in the timing delay.

My order was placed in January, they accepted multicontour orders all the way until May I believe.

 

[that1guy]

No, IMO, they are not. You haven't paid for anything, at the time of you ordering they had the best intentions of giving you what you ordered.

They are not luring you in and forcing you to or asking you to pay a higher price.

You don't have to pay for anything for advertising schemes to be enforceable, which is why the FCC regulates it. We're certainly in new territory so a current law will not fit perfectly, but that's why our legal system takes new cases, judges them, and makes laws accordingly (or at least judges similar cases equally).

Also, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if Ford had the idea, or even intention, to start removing features long before they announced it. In fact, I find it impossible to believe that isn't the case, but that's something we'd never know unless it turned up via leaked documents or in discovery of a lawsuit

 

[jfried]

No, they are prioritizing customer experience. People are already pissed waiting months and months for chip holds and the like. Some features, like some of the seats used materials from the Ukraine. I'm sure they tried to source from elsewhere, but probably also found that others were doing the same.

Again, they could keep the features and give you the option to wait it out, but would you be happy waiting a year or more for a feature for the materials to be available? If so then you have a point. Technically you still have that option. You can just not take your truck and wait for them to offer those features again.

Ford can't make materials just show up out of thin air. They made a hard choice knowing not everyone would love it, but at least they knew they could get cars out to customers. They are reacting to global supply changes that everyone is dealing with. You feel Ford is worse because you ordered a Ford and it hits closer to home.

Now, do I think that some of the credit they give are low? Yes, but I don't know really know the cost difference in some of those features. Is the difference in cost for the nicer seats in the platinum really worth what they give you credit for? I don't know. I don't know their costs. I agree it seems low, but without knowing the actual cost of goods I can only speculate.

Not exactly.

Take my example. I ordered with a $750 factory order incentive "Your Ford your Way" from Ford, and negotiated a price with the dealership. A vehicle order, as long as it is sold to the original customer, is price-protected, so the dealership is able to keep my pricing as agreed in January.

If i were to place a new order, I'd have to renegotiate, but with a truck that is based on today's pricing, not January's when I agreed to it.

The customer-friendly procedure, would have been whenever they found out there might be a shortage (presumably at least a month or two before they run out of on hands) would be to inform customers, and let them choose whether to remove the option to get the truck built, or wait for it to be built. That would implicitly push them towards offering a credit that people might actually take on.... rather than the BS $300.

You would have had to take off $5k+ for me to remove multicontour (and knowing what I know now about how bad the seats are, probably north of $10k). However, I'm sure there were many dealer orders built, where the dealer would have happily taken a $750 window sticker credit, and if they started that process early enough, would have resulted in me getting a truck I can drive without back pain.

 

[FrankThompson]

You don't have to pay for anything for advertising schemes to be enforceable, which is why the FCC regulates it. We're certainly in new territory so a current law will not fit perfectly, but that's why our legal system takes new cases, judges them, and makes laws accordingly (or at least judges similar cases equally).

Also, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if Ford had the idea, or even intention, to start removing features long before they announced it. In fact, I find it impossible to believe that isn't the case, but that's something we'd never know unless it turned up via leaked documents or in discovery of a lawsuit

You're upset (and you have the right to be) and so of course you feel this way, but if Ford thought they could get the parts in, it would have been in their best interest to just delay. The obviously felt that the delay would be too long await for this MY and apparently even next MY since those removals are also carried over to the 23 MY.

Not exactly.

Take my example. I ordered with a $750 factory order incentive "Your Ford your Way" from Ford, and negotiated a price with the dealership. A vehicle order, as long as it is sold to the original customer, is price-protected, so the dealership is able to keep my pricing as agreed in January.

If i were to place a new order, I'd have to renegotiate, but with a truck that is based on today's pricing, not January's when I agreed to it.

The customer-friendly procedure, would have been whenever they found out there might be a shortage (presumably at least a month or two before they run out of on hands) would be to inform customers, and let them choose whether to remove the option to get the truck built, or wait for it to be built. That would implicitly push them towards offering a credit that people might actually take on.... rather than the BS $300.

You would have had to take off $5k+ for me to remove multicontour (and knowing what I know now about how bad the seats are, probably north of $10k). However, I'm sure there were many dealer orders built, where the dealer would have happily taken a $750 window sticker credit, and if they started that process early enough, would have resulted in me getting a truck I can drive without back pain.

You bolded apart of my message that said you could decide to wait until a MY where those features are added back then said "Not exactly"

It is exactly that. You can wait. You might pay more and you won't get the truck you ordered, but if you want those features, those are your choices now. Accept the removals or don't accept athe truck and wait for another MY (or go buy a truck from another company)

I'm no Ford apologist, but if you were still waiting in 2024 for your Multi-contour seats while your 2022 truck sits in a field rusting, you'd be really pissed and upset at ford for making you wait.

They can't win in this situation.

 

[Kidder]

What I learned (at least on the Tremor Forums), is that apparently not everyone's dealer is honoring the original price. My dealer had me sign a price lock, that isn't the case everywhere, or so I've seen. Some people have had to take documentation from Ford to show their dealers that the original price is supposed to be honored, with varying degrees of success.

Well, then this is a dealer issue.

For timeline info, I ordered mine in November and received it in February of 2022.

 

[TJE]

Well, then this is a dealer issue.

For timeline info, I ordered mine in November and received it in February of 2022.

I agree it's a dealer issue, I'm just saying it happens.

 

[jfried]

You bolded apart of my message that said you could decide to wait until a MY where those features are added back then said "Not exactly"

It is exactly that. You can wait. You might pay more and you won't get the truck you ordered, but if you want those features, those are your choices now. Accept the removals or don't accept athe truck and wait for another MY (or go buy a truck from another company)

I'm no Ford apologist, but if you were still waiting in 2024 for your Multi-contour seats while your 2022 truck sits in a field rusting, you'd be really pissed and upset at ford for making you wait.

They can't win in this situation.

It's not just "waiting a model year"... but also paying substantially more for the truck.

Ford could have "won" in this situation -- they were either just too incompetent, or too greedy, to do so.

I'm sure in normal circumstances, they get a shipment of multicontour chips every week or two. It's not like that manufacturer dropped off this week's chips, and said, "btw, no more until mid-2023". Supply chains do not disrupt that quickly. Even Ukraine was involved, that was predominantly in Februrary, and Ford only told people about the multicontour removal in late May.

The way ford could have won, was simple... sometime in February/March, they were told by their supplier, that multicontour seats were going to be a problem. At that point, they can easily count their inventory on hand + inventory that they know will come in, and figure out how many of the ordered trucks can be produced with this feature.

If they've got enough chips for 90% of the ordered trucks, then they need to estimate a rough price point where 10% of orders will "drop" their multicontour. $300 might do it... or pick the most recently ordered dealer-stock trucks and just do it unilaterally. If they've got enough chips for 25% of the ordered trucks, then they've gotta dig a whole lot deeper than $300, and figure out a price point where 75% of people will forego their multicontour.

Instead, what they did was create a situation where people ordered trucks, made commitments around a rough expected timeline, and are now being forced with a "take the POS truck you didn't order", or pay a bunch more, and wait a whole lot longer, for the one you did. In my case, with a Smoked Quartz Truck...also lose the colour you wanted.

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