12V battery State of Change (SOC)

[Samson16]

now need to do trip planning to avoid short distances between stop or carry an extension cord and a battery charger to use each night. A jump battery booster is now also something I carry at all times in the truck.

You have received the BMS update right?

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[Gros Ventre]

A lead acid battery, of any construction, has a terminal voltage proportional to state of charge, this is a known characteristic and is quite accurate. Best measured after a zero float has been reached for awhile, but can be calculated if the current flow is known. The reason for letting the battery stand on zero float is that depending on the amount of discharge current the chemical reactions can be plate surface or more deeply throughout the plate if at a lower current flow. The standing allows the cells to diffuse the chemistry throughout cells. The utility of the AGM design is that thinner plates have faster diffusion throughout the plates making higher burst currents possible. Having some indication of things to come with my OEM battery, I installed a dashboard voltmeter and discovered that the Ford folks placed the temperature sensor driving the operating float voltage, out in the pax side mirror. Thus in cold weather the battery is being overcharged on longer drives, particularly if temps get down below 0ºF. Will this shorten the life of the battery? I'm waiting to see. I replaced my OEM battery 4 months from delivery. It's now 2 1/2 years old, operating just fine without any outside intervention to include 3 winters where temps get down to -20ºF routinely. It's my opinion that Ford batteries are defective. Having observed that dashboard voltmeter, the Ford programming follows classic formulae and all this to do over computer generated state of charge little more than polishing the cannonball. I find the placing of the temperature sensor odd and possibly damaging if you live in places with really cold winters, as I do. It's also a good idea to give your brand new battery a "wetting down" charge (a long time low rate charge which ensures all active material is set up correctly). I've made flooded cell batteries go 8 years. This is my first AGM, so we'll see how it goes. That issue of current flow versus diffusion throughout the active material is significant. Also recognize that your truck is always on. The issue is what have the programmers left running. I find a half volt difference in battery voltage between key fob nearby and no key fob nearby... IE if the truck has alerted to your presence.

 

[Gord0]

We have a tendency to blindly accept that the Ford programmers priorities are our own and that they know how to do what is needed. The reality is obviously quite different.

With my RVs I used sophisticated chargers that had multiple charge profiles designed for each type of battery with different profiles for FLAT, AGM, and lithium batteries. The Ford charging program is designed for AGM batteries and ignores the problems with a SOC less than 50% which greatly shortens the life of all but lithium batteries.

Lithium batteries can withstand discharges of 90% but one would need a charger designed for such batteries. It still would not fix the problem of having too little storage capacity with many trucks that have H6 batteries. Ford provides H7 with some trucks and also the even larger capacity H8 so it is aware of the power demands of the trucks as they are currently engineered.

I used to do trip route planning to meet the need to find diesel for my last truck and now need to do trip planning to avoid short distances between stop or carry an extension cord and a battery charger to use each night. A jump battery booster is now also something I carry at all times in the truck.

As I've seen in some of your other posts. If you are seeing your SOC go from 90+ to under 50 while just sitting overnight you're either intentionally draining the battery, have a parasitic draw, or have a bad battery.
It literally takes my truck 10 miles to bring it's soc from 65 to 75 and I don't have the new BMS update, or any changes through FORScan. Only have an H8 I put in there 1 week after buying the truck used.

 

[Samson16]

Where do I find the SOC PID again?
I’m sure mine is ideal but just so I can properly follow the conversation.

 

[Snakebitten]

Where do I find the SOC PID again?
I’m sure mine is ideal but just so I can properly follow the conversation.

How do you lose a PID? ???

OBDlink app
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury library
BECM module
"Target/Desired SOC for Battery"

By the way, that label is misleading because it is not reflecting Target or Desired SOC. If it did, it would be a static value, or one other than the current SOC. Instead, it reflects Ford's value for the current SOC, which is close to, but not exactly what the published SOC for an AGM battery.

I say that because I always have an external Bluetooth voltage meter on the battery and it gives a more standard SOC value vs Ford. But the variation is usually less than a couple of tenths of a volt, statically speaking.

I've already stated it in various threads, but the latest battery charging strategy is so much improved that I think it is a matter of time and the whole 12V battery drama will become a shadow of what it's been since the release of the Gen14 trucks.

Or put it another way, only trucks with above normal parasitic drain, or trucks that sit idle for lengthy stretches will suffer the low voltage blues. Which will be such a breath of fresh air around here.

I'm curious if this software patch wasn't at least some of the delay on the 2024 F150 release? One part of Ford putting the pressure on another part of Ford to FIX some of the things that were getting kicked down the road for way too long.

 

[Samson16]

How do you lose a PID? ???

OBDlink app
Ford/Lincoln/Mercury library
BECM module
"Target/Desired SOC for Battery"

By the way, that label is misleading because it is not reflecting Target or Desired SOC. If it did, it would be a static value, or one other than the current SOC. Instead, it reflects Ford's value for the current SOC, which is close to, but not exactly what the published SOC for an AGM battery.

I say that because I always have an external Bluetooth voltage meter on the battery and it gives a more standard SOC value vs Ford. But the variation is usually less than a couple of tenths of a volt, statically speaking.

I've already stated it in various threads, but the latest battery charging strategy is so much improved that I think it is a matter of time and the whole 12V battery drama will become a shadow of what it's been since the release of the Gen14 trucks.

Or put it another way, only trucks with above normal parasitic drain, or trucks that sit idle for lengthy stretches will suffer the low voltage blues. Which will be such a breath of fresh air around here.

I'm curious if this software patch wasn't at least some of the delay on the 2024 F150 release? One part of Ford putting the pressure on another part of Ford to FIX some of the things that were getting kicked down the road for way too long.

It’s such a foundational improvement in real life confidence and reliability. Absolutely fantastic!
Edit: Thanks for the PID!
Battery Pack State of Charge (SOC) refers to the HVB then?

 

[Snakebitten]

It’s such a foundational improvement in real life confidence and reliability. Absolutely fantastic!
Edit: Thanks for the PID!
Battery Pack State of Charge (SOC) refers to the HVB then?

"Hybrid Battery State of Charge" is what OBDlink labeled the PID for the HV battery. Same module, by the way. At least in the version I have.
I think the 2023's have a whole new PID library and I don't know if the labeling is the same.

 

[G_Money]

On 2023 I'm using:
Body Control Module -> Vehicle Battery State of Charge Estimated
and
Battery Energy Control Module -> Hybrid Battery State of Charge

 

[SilverPigeon]

On 2023 I'm using:
Body Control Module -> Vehicle Battery State of Charge Estimated...

Same here, with OBD Fusion on a Veepeak BT+.

No new strategy from updates here as I haven't done FDRS yet, but I know I've got a bad battery that I'm nursing with my NOCO 10. Came out to truck yesterday morning to find 57%SOC after charging all night. 2 hour drive to the clay target shooting ground and I couldn't get above 63%SOC, at which point it was reading battery amps at 0. (FORScan SOC target set to 103% to stay in conventional charging). Returned to truck 4 times during the 9:30am to 3pm event (power boards, mirrors, welcome lights etc etc.). Leaving ground, SOC was 45%. Again couldn't get above 63%SOC when battery current sank to 0 (no input current from charging).

Will show my dealer the issue and hopefully convince them to put in a H8 and I'll pony up the difference ?

 

[Calson]

I have had trucks that used 6-volt batteries and many dozens of vehicles with 12-volt batteries, including a 2011 GM diesel and a Chevy 2018 full size SUV. Now in 2024 my 2022 vehicle has a fragile charging system and battery setup and a BMS that is supposed to correct the engineering deficiencies. I have no such illusions after dealing with my truck for the past 2 years.

Reminds my of the brilliant flight control programming that Boeing developed for the 737 Max passenger jet. The greed of the Boeing executive was more of a concern than how well and how safely the plane flew.

Ford has its own history with the people killed in the Ford Blazer and the Ford Pinto and the Ford Crown Victoria. It is easy to calculate the money saved with shoddy engineering and it is the customer who pays.

My last Ford was the full size Blazer with the twin i-beam suspension that needed to be repaired every 15K miles. No such issues with my superduty GM with its IFS or my Toyota pickups with their IFS that were properly engineered.

At a certain point one needs to find mechanisms to deal with the issues or replace the vehicle. Either way it is pointless to wait for some magical software code from Ford.

 

[Snakebitten]

It's amazing that you would purchase a vehicle from such a manufacture.

 

[Samson16]

I have had trucks that used 6-volt batteries and many dozens of vehicles with 12-volt batteries, including a 2011 GM diesel and a Chevy 2018 full size SUV. Now in 2024 my 2022 vehicle has a fragile charging system and battery setup and a BMS that is supposed to correct the engineering deficiencies. I have no such illusions after dealing with my truck for the past 2 years.

Reminds my of the brilliant flight control programming that Boeing developed for the 737 Max passenger jet. The greed of the Boeing executive was more of a concern than how well and how safely the plane flew.

Ford has its own history with the people killed in the Ford Blazer and the Ford Pinto and the Ford Crown Victoria. It is easy to calculate the money saved with shoddy engineering and it is the customer who pays.

My last Ford was the full size Blazer with the twin i-beam suspension that needed to be repaired every 15K miles. No such issues with my superduty GM with its IFS or my Toyota pickups with their IFS that were properly engineered.

At a certain point one needs to find mechanisms to deal with the issues or replace the vehicle. Either way it is pointless to wait for some magical software code from Ford.

Can I swap you for Gros Ventre?

 

[Snakebitten]

The full sized Ford Blazer must have been magical. ?

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