lithium batteries..

[FORDTEXAS]

does anybody know if our trucks will accept lithium batteries? they look nice and all but are sure damn expensive as hell..

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[mrtull]

does anybody know if our trucks will accept lithium batteries? they look nice and all but are sure damn expensive as hell..

I certainly do not know, but for RVs they run at higher voltages than the LA/AGM batteries. I would think it would put a strain on all the modules unless the BCM can regulate the voltage. I'm curious to see what others post.

 

[HammaMan]

Depends on what your truck does with voltage. Use a bluetooth battery monitor to watch the truck while driving for a few days, then charge it up and watch it the next day or days while driving.. You need 13.5v+ to charge it.

I have one in my PB as an aux batt. I believe a new BMS strategy was recently deployed so I haven't seen the new one. This is where the hvac fan 5 trick comes into play, but based on other's feedback it's only for PB/EV and doesn't work on ICE trucks (supposed to not consume batteries like the PB based on its SOC but I've seen no evidence)

 

[PowerBoostSoCal]

Don't do it ... there is not currently a good lithium battery for starting (SLI), deep cycle for RVs is easy if your entire system is built for lithium. Our trucks are designed for AGM - are charged properly, etc. Read other posts here about battery problems - AGM - lithium would even worse.

 

[HammaMan]

Don't do it ... there is not currently a good lithium battery for starting (SLI), deep cycle for RVs is easy if your entire system is built for lithium. Our trucks are designed for AGM - are charged properly, etc. Read other posts here about battery problems - AGM - lithium would even worse.

He doesn't have a powerboost. They weren't designed for AGMs, they have a couple variables in the BMS logic for AGM. Furthermore someone that's making specific LFP under-hood bats for vehicle use is fully taking into account the variables using an independent BMS to manage the cells. 100% perfectly acceptable to do.

 

[PowerBoostSoCal]

I am speaking specifically about a starting lithium battery for a truck like ours. For RV deep cycle and golf carts, etc. they are some good ones out there. But a replacement for an SLI AGM battery - there are not good options out there and the one's I have sold do not work very well (at all).

 

[JExpedition07]

He doesn't have a powerboost. They weren't designed for AGMs, they have a couple variables in the BMS logic for AGM. Furthermore someone that's making specific LFP under-hood bats for vehicle use is fully taking into account the variables using an independent BMS to manage the cells. 100% perfectly acceptable to do.

5.0’s come with AGM

 

[Calson]

A lithium battery is not a good choice for a vehicle starter battery. In an RV they can provide double the usable amp hours for 12VDC appliances in the same space as a 12V lead acid battery, but this if of little benefit with a car or truck.

Lithium batteries can be charged faster which is a benefit with an RV using solar panels during the day but of no benefit for what is a starter battery in a car or truck. The downside with a lithium battery is that is cannot accept a charge when there are freezing temperatures. As a house battery this seldom matters but not good for its use as a starter battery for a vehicle (or boat).

I used a type of lithium battery in my slide-in camper and in my Class C motorhome but would never use them in a powerboat or car or truck to replace the starter battery.

 

[HammaMan]

It really depends on where you live / what conditions your truck is in. The way a properly designed LFP works for vehicles that don't get too far below freezing is that the LFP batteries can discharge down to -20c but don't yet charge, and provide more power than AGMs at that temp (they can discharge at even colder temps, but not wise to do it sustained, vehicle starting is a brief momentary action). With a correctly made BMS, the battery has heating elements around the cells which are then insulated from the environment inside of the case itself. They will start the vehicle and activate the heating elements while not allowing it to charge. When the cells get above 0c (preferably 5c) they begin charging and do so quite rapidly. My truck can sit for 2 days, and once started will recharge the LFP in less than 15 minutes back to 100%. (LFP can charge below freezing but it must be limited to the proper curve to prevent plating. Below freezing isn't a magical number, the curve starts at .05C below -10c before reaching 1C around 10c temp)

Now a really competent battery designer would go a step further and heat the battery up so long as charging power is present up to 20c or so. With an insulated case of ~1" closed cell foam, the battery will stay warm for quite a while, very slowly cooling down (in the same way a cooler full of ice melts over days). I've mapped out a BMS logic to take it a step further to even allow programming of periodic heating. Even with a small 110ah 12v battery, there's 1.4kWh of energy in them. A sample of intelligent logic would know the vehicles regular patterns and pre-heat the battery if needed to charging temp before the vehicle is started. Again this all assumes conditions are below freezing for an extended period of time AND the battery has gotten below freezing which is why it's very much location dependent.

Keep in mind, there are EVs with LFP batteries and they're not even insulated. Various teslas and the mach-e have LFP packs in their standard range vehicles. The batteries in those cars will out live the rest of the vehicle's components.

5.0’s come with AGM

All fords that I'm aware of have AGM batteries as their 12v batt, including the EVs. Tesla uses lithium ion exclusively for their low-voltage batteries, and they're about the size of a large 8ah 20v cordless drill batt.

 

[GJG]

A lithium battery is not a good choice for a vehicle starter battery. In an RV they can provide double the usable amp hours for 12VDC appliances in the same space as a 12V lead acid battery, but this if of little benefit with a car or truck.

Lithium batteries can be charged faster which is a benefit with an RV using solar panels during the day but of no benefit for what is a starter battery in a car or truck. The downside with a lithium battery is that is cannot accept a charge when there are freezing temperatures. As a house battery this seldom matters but not good for its use as a starter battery for a vehicle (or boat).

I used a type of lithium battery in my slide-in camper and in my Class C motorhome but would never use them in a powerboat or car or truck to replace the starter battery.

I have a lithium cranking/starter battery in my boat. Best battery i’ve ever owned. Will concede the freezing temp issue though…..

 

[mparham1]

Thoughts on these batteries?



https://dakotalithium.com/product-category/automotive-and-powersports-batteries/truck-batteries/

 

[JCsTruck]

I have three of the DL+ 60AH batteries in my bass boat. One is used to start the 115 HP motor. They are less than half the weight of a lead acid battery. They can be used as a car starting battery but to get them to charge 100% you need a DC to DC converter. I think the alternator can charge them but not to 100% . With a complicated battery management system like Ford has I don't know how that would work.

 

[Buyer2021]

Thoughts on these batteries?
https://dakotalithium.com/product-category/automotive-and-powersports-batteries/truck-batteries/

As a replacement vs an H8 AGM battery in a non-PB truck, what's the value / benefit in those?

I love the 400Ah LiFePO4 battery in my RV trailer, but that's a totally different (not engine-starting) application.

 

[Bobcatou]

I didn't think Lithium held up well in cold weather.

 

[HammaMan]

Lithium isn't a single chemistry. LFP isn't friendly to low temp charging, particularly sub freezing. W/out a smart BMS and heater in the batt, not advisable. Even w/ a heater in the batt, it can take up to an hr for the batt to reach safe charging temps. It will still discharge energy but can't take it back up. This could be hard on a traditional charging system lacking its transient buffer. Maybe the alternators can handle it, maybe they can't. Given it can discharge voltage won't dip low, but a cheap alternator might spike the voltage trying to recover or let go of sudden load like the ABS can hit the system with.

LTO and other lithium chemistries can do sub freezing temps. Most batts sold as house/starting batteries use LFP chemistry and they're just not good in cold temps where a battery can cold soak for 12+hrs (or worst case a day or two). That's a lot of mass to get up to temp and honest battery sellers will tell you the time it takes to warm it back up. It could take an hour to reach safe charging temp. Freezing isn't a magic number either, it's a gray zone where the C rate must be limited on either side of it up to around 40f.

Conditions like garage kept and driving frequency can impact this. If you overnight garage, the batt will charge before reaching a destination. Coming back it might not take any charge (not a big deal, they have loads of reserve capacity). Placing on a 15a charger is enough to feed its heaters, they're typically a 10a/120w heating element. Some may find it to be a small sacrifice for what it provides. Heat coming off of the engine in rewarming the batt is an unknown variable.

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