Current F-150 model life extended; next-gen F-150 delayed until at least mid-2028

[Forumlurker24]

Perhaps an alternative today would pair a motor on the turbo to be able to both eliminate spool time as well as recapture energy in the form of electricity to be put back into the hybrid drive. Intake water injection can be used to keep EGTs down alternatively, but running a 1:1 ratio of water to fuel via a separate tank is likely to be seen as impractical, particularly in winter, for typical scenarios especially seeing as how you'd want pure water as possible to avoid mineral buildup as well as any other contaminants that may be present in municipal water. Not to mention it'd have to be a stupidly reliable setup to avoid hydrolocking the motor if it leaks.

Do you mean Iike the turbo systems in formula 1? I think it's a very promising technology, 0 spool, and you can recover a ton of energy that way.

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[HammaMan]

still runs into EGT issues though. Water injection especially towing would work wonders. Just zero chance an OEM is going to do that mainstream.

 

[Forumlurker24]

At higher power levels, EGTs cause a fuel-rich condition to keep them safe which is why the EBs drink fuel like no other. Unparalleled in towing and their ability to drink gas. I suspect they'd be more efficient if they were able to put power back into the crank like turbo superchargers of WW2 did, but those systems were insanely complex even by today's standards.

Perhaps an alternative today would pair a motor on the turbo to be able to both eliminate spool time as well as recapture energy in the form of electricity to be put back into the hybrid drive. Intake water injection can be used to keep EGTs down alternatively, but running a 1:1 ratio of water to fuel via a separate tank is likely to be seen as impractical, particularly in winter, for typical scenarios especially seeing as how you'd want pure water as possible to avoid mineral buildup as well as any other contaminants that may be present in municipal water. Not to mention it'd have to be a stupidly reliable setup to avoid hydrolocking the motor if it leaks.

As to the OT -- The BYD Shark 9 is coming for the half ton market. The BYD 6 is already taking on the ranger raptor (and ranger in-general) throughout the rest of the globe being both faster and ~$30k cheaper. Though tariffs will likely keep the BYD 9 out of the US, it's scheduled to launch in 2027 and I'd bet is the prime reason the F150 is delayed as it needs a total redesign to match what the BYD shark 9 is going to bring. Ford has gotten the message from the BYD shark 6 and they know the 9 is a direct threat to them, especially coming with at least a 30kWh battery and will be an EV w/ a generator. The exact truck ford should have started on 2 years ago. Better delayed than never I guess?

Given ford's reliance on the trucks to carry the company, a competent competitor priced 30% less with all of an EVs benefits and none of the drawbacks like relying on public charging while also being able to tow -- Well it's not surprising this news is leaked just months after farley went to china and read the writing on the wall. Unlike ford, BYD won't gimp the payload to make the 250 more attractive. The shark 9 will be both a 150 competitor as well as encroach on the 250s territory. Shark 6s can't be sold in the US, but that's not stopping people from going to MX and buying them. A mexican shark 9 will all but end mexican 150/Lobo sales.

Regarding the Byrd, I like the concept. I wouldn't ever buy one but competition is good, hoping it lights a fire under the domestic markets ass

 

[HammaMan]

Regarding the Byrd, I like the concept. I wouldn't ever buy one but competition is good, hoping it lights a fire under the domestic markets ass

I'd just like to see them partner w/ a US tech firm like have the infotainment run on android and be forced to use US cloud w/ no connection to the chicoms. Just wanting to choose the lesser of the evils and all.

I'd have no issue buying a vehicle w/ better tech at a lesser price. Competition is only good when buyers choose it forcing incumbent auto's hand.

 

[Snakebitten]

I'm old enough to have lived through the first arrival of "outside competition" and then watched as my grandpa, my dad, and then I benefitted as consumers of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury products improved dramatically as a result.

The difference this time is that Ford/GM/Stellantis aren't laughing and making jokes about the competition. They remember! (and thus the fear and loathing and a bit of hyperbole with language......"threat to national security"

You mean threat to getting your butts kicked in the consumer's value equation?)

I know I don't speak for all Americans, but I have no issue with paying a bit more for "local" products. But that's not the same thing as paying more for inferior products.

The good news is, as HammaMan explained, Ford and GM are already having to compete with the products discussed, in other markets. They KNOW what they are up against. They have acquired and are taking some of these products down to the bolts and washers. Now get off your engineering sandbagging butts and go to work! This isn't nuclear physics. It's automotive engineering and there's nothing to stop you but the lack of will and tenacity.

 

[HammaMan]

Ford is going to license build BYD's LFP batts here in the states starting 2026 -- the pieces are aligning for them to pull it off.

BUT, at the same time, more than a dozen times the past 2 years I've seen things coming from ford where the only response is

 

[JCsTruck]

An internal combustion engine (ICE) only converts about 25% of the BTU’s in a gallon of fuel into kinetic energy, the rest is wasted as heat out the exhaust and through the cooling system as heat. Its overall just not efficient. Turbochargers help recapture some of that wasted heat energy and recycle it back into the engine as kinetic energy. This also generates more heat and friction within that engine so there are some diminishing returns on that and loss of efficiency. Generally speaking though, manufacturers can design a smaller turbocharged engine that can propel a vehicle without boost under normal loads but then act like a larger engine under boost and higher power demands, sort of a best of both worlds with some compromise as always.

The ultimate efficient combination is the coupling of an electric motor with an ICE motor. Run the electric motor at lower speeds and supplement the ICE motor during high power demands while allowing the ICE motor to do its thing when its most efficient during stoichiometric cruising. The electric motor can also recapture normally lost kinetic energy and store that in the battery for later use instead of just wasting it as heat through the brakes. I would like to see Ford take something like the 2.7 L and couple it to an electric motor and tune it for efficiency rather than what they did with the 3.5 power boost where it’s tuned more for power than efficiency. This would also keep the battery small, the motor small, and thus keep overall weight and cost down. I think coupling a 5.0 V8 to an electric motor might be too heavy and expensive but would also be awesome.

Lastly, the reciprocating design of the ICE is over 100 years old now. There are other more efficient designs out there that could put the ICE over 25% efficiency by a lot, but I’m not sure why no manufacturer has taken some of the patented designs out there and run with them. The first manufacturer that pulls that off successfully will have a competitive advantage.

 

[Forumlurker24]

Ford is going to license build BYD's LFP batts here in the states starting 2026 -- the pieces are aligning for them to pull it off.

BUT, at the same time, more than a dozen times the past 2 years I've seen things coming from ford where the only response is

I would love to see ford bring the plug in ranger to the US and develop a plug-in F-150. We'll have to wait and see

 

[Snakebitten]

I would love to see ford bring the plug in ranger to the US and develop a plug-in F-150. We'll have to wait and see

I think it's inevitable. Electrification of vehicles, that is.

The question is just how quickly.

 

[HammaMan]

I would love to see ford bring the plug in ranger to the US and develop a plug-in F-150. We'll have to wait and see

They never brought the PHEV ranger nor explorer to the states. Instead they put the PHEV explorer into the aviator and charged $80k for it and because sales sucked they canceled it.
Duh ford, duh, I wonder why people weren't paying 80k for a rebadged explorer. What possibly could it have been.

The only ones that get ripped off more than Americans are the aussies with their $30k RHD conversions. I expect incumbents to try until they're turning colors to keep the chinese hybrids out of the states. When it gets closer to launch I'll start communication w/ BYD to get one in the states .

 

[roadPilot]

I might get me a dark horse though eventually in the mean time.

Make sure they match!

 

[Pelican]

Make sure they match!

I could not agree more...

 

[Pelican]

An internal combustion engine (ICE) only converts about 25% of the BTU’s in a gallon of fuel into kinetic energy, the rest is wasted as heat out the exhaust and through the cooling system as heat. Its overall just not efficient. Turbochargers help recapture some of that wasted heat energy and recycle it back into the engine as kinetic energy. This also generates more heat and friction within that engine so there are some diminishing returns on that and loss of efficiency. Generally speaking though, manufacturers can design a smaller turbocharged engine that can propel a vehicle without boost under normal loads but then act like a larger engine under boost and higher power demands, sort of a best of both worlds with some compromise as always.

The ultimate efficient combination is the coupling of an electric motor with an ICE motor. Run the electric motor at lower speeds and supplement the ICE motor during high power demands while allowing the ICE motor to do its thing when its most efficient during stoichiometric cruising. The electric motor can also recapture normally lost kinetic energy and store that in the battery for later use instead of just wasting it as heat through the brakes. I would like to see Ford take something like the 2.7 L and couple it to an electric motor and tune it for efficiency rather than what they did with the 3.5 power boost where it’s tuned more for power than efficiency. This would also keep the battery small, the motor small, and thus keep overall weight and cost down. I think coupling a 5.0 V8 to an electric motor might be too heavy and expensive but would also be awesome.

Lastly, the reciprocating design of the ICE is over 100 years old now. There are other more efficient designs out there that could put the ICE over 25% efficiency by a lot, but I’m not sure why no manufacturer has taken some of the patented designs out there and run with them. The first manufacturer that pulls that off successfully will have a competitive advantage.

Before retiring from F.M.C., my dad (licensed P.E. Mechanical Engineer) where he was a powerhouse engineer, he had an opportunity to go to Dearborn where he met an engineer who designed engines. He shared with my dad they already had the technology to build engines capable of 100 mpg, but the government would not allow it. I believe it to this day - after all how is it that 2021 F-150 with a 3.5 eco gets better mpg than an 2020 Explorer Sport with the same engine? I know they are not the exact same engine, but the F-150 weighs considerably more and had 35 more horsepower. Another example, a friend had an early 2000's Geo Prizm that got better mpg than a 15 year newer Carola? I'm no engineer myself, but things are not adding up.

 

[JExpedition07]

Didn’t the 2020 Explorers have an older 8 speed? Transverse drivetrain until 2021 too which I am sure didn’t help. It was easier to get better mpg with less stict emissions requirements back in the day too but we started worrying more about carbon emission and NOx. The current 3.5 EB is now stuck using an exhaust gas recirculation system to meet emissions.

The manufactures have done a considerable job reducing emissions and gaining MPG all in all, but we’d be getting alot better mpg had the emissions systems not gotten so crazy.

 

[Gros Ventre]

Saying the ICE is not efficient is to ignore the thermodymics involved. 25% isn't bad at all for a motor vehicle engine. The best large stationary diesels along with those in marine use can get above 40%.

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