7.2KW generator not able to handle a circular saw

[AverageGuy]

I have a Sep 21 built and never had any problems with my 7.2KW. I've used table saw, skill saw, 12" mitre saw without any issues. What would be interesting is, the ones with the problem if they could try their tools on a different Powerboost to see if the problem follow. If I'm not wrong the circuits at the back should be able to handle 30A at 120V.

It's tough to find another Powerboost around here.
It's also tough, if I could find one, to lug my saw down to said location with the saw. It's not impossible, but also not easy to get this thing loaded in and out of the truck as I don't have a ramp, etc...

A dealer suggested this, and I would do it if I could. But, I just don't have any access to other Powerboosts, and neither does my dealer. Heck, my dealer's service department thought my truck was a diesel and as they never had seen one before. They told me they couldn't do the maintenance requested (change the oil) as they didn't have any diesel hybrid oil on hand (yowsers).

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[oneinch]

Well, I'm watching this thread. I haven't got my truck yet to do any of my own testing. I'm expecting to run a number of things camping including a portable AC. I'll be disappointed to say the least if I can't. I'll be testing my own corded tools also.

 

[HammaMan]

It's tough to find another Powerboost around here.

Not sure if this will change your results, but for the price it's quite handy. HFT sells one that only pulls from 1 leg into 3 plugs, this on the other hand allows both legs and all 7500w of the truck to be pulled.
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Distribution-Locking-Household-Protection/dp/B09P3GX6DM

This below is DO NOT BUY -- it only taps 1 of the legs for 3600w max.
https://www.harborfreight.com/electrical/generators/3-ft-20-amp-generator-adapter-57713.html

 

[AverageGuy]

Not sure if this will change your results, but for the price it's quite handy. HFT sells one that only pulls from 1 leg into 3 plugs, this on the other hand allows both legs and all 7500w of the truck to be pulled.
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Distribution-Locking-Household-Protection/dp/B09P3GX6DM

This below is DO NOT BUY -- it only taps 1 of the legs for 3600w max.
https://www.harborfreight.com/electrical/generators/3-ft-20-amp-generator-adapter-57713.html

Actually, I bought this exact item from Amazon previously and tried it. It does not resolve my problem. The circuit breaker or software is just so aggressive regarding inrush current. Ty though.

 

[HammaMan]

Might be the resistance issue then. I didn't suspect it'd watch the 20a receptacles any closer than it'd watch the 30a. I've tripped the inverter itself, but never a breaker.

 

[AverageGuy]

Might be the resistance issue then. I didn't suspect it'd watch the 20a receptacles any closer than it'd watch the 30a. I've tripped the inverter itself, but never a breaker.

Well, Ford is saying that the AF level has "better starting capability for low impedance loads (like a miter saw) and was released shortly after the customer's vehicle was built". So, regardless of the receptacle, 30a or 20a, their module doesn't like the amount of power requested within the startup phase, even though that amperage is still under 20a. That's the crazy part, Ford throws the error and shuts off the circuit before 20a is reached.

I read somewhere that this module is capable of adjusting the threshold for inrush current, which I find fascinating because electricity moves at the speed of light and software just doesn't. So, I'm baffled how this software update will do the trick.

In any case, Ford really erodes trust when they say they have a 20a circuit, but it can't run a 15a tool, especially when you pay extra for pro power. I get that some saws pull a little more than 15a at startup, but what are consumers supposed to do, buy every saw on the market until you find one that works with your truck? That's insane. The consumer is left holding the bag when they follow the specs, read the manual and buy appropriately.That's sad.

 

[Snakebitten]

But it does appear that folks running power tools from their ProPower trucks are experiencing a high percentage of success. The failures seem to be anomalies for the most part.

A lousy scenario, admittedly, if you are the one with that tool.

 

[HammaMan]

I read somewhere that this module is capable of adjusting the threshold for inrush current, which I find fascinating because electricity moves at the speed of light and software just doesn't. So, I'm baffled how this software update will do the trick.

Well it's the software that's shutting it off. Do understand that AC power moves extremely slow compared to even the most basic of CPUs. 60Hz is peanuts compared to even a 'slow' CPU that's running at 100MHz (100,000,000Hz). The truck's primary CPU is running 1.9GHz (1,900,000,000Hz). So in the time it takes AC to cycle just once, the software could have adjusted parameters hundreds if not thousands of times. 1/60th of a second is a really long time in simple variables controlled by a computer... really long. Its sample time could even be 5 or 10 sinewaves and you still wouldn't notice it.

They might just be overly cautious with the original logic, so yes, software could very well do it wonders. Given that it's made by one of the big industry suppliers, it's extremely heavy, and water cooled, I'd think they would have given it much heavier margins. This isn't a china special running off of 12v -- it's got 300v behind it and doesn't require a large transformer. It should have a solid +100% surge capability for 5 seconds at least. Given that it's restricted to ~7.6kW, I'm guessing these things will almost never break. I wouldn't be surprised to see the exact same unit up-rated in the future. 7.2kW is a pretty random figure. I'd love to see it be able to run a sustained 12kw myself. I wouldn't have interest in tapping its HV bus for up to 20kw if it did. But it doesn't, so I am.

 

[AverageGuy]

But it does appear that folks running power tools from their ProPower trucks are experiencing a high percentage of success. The failures seem to be anomalies for the most part.

A lousy scenario, admittedly, if you are the one with that tool.

Perhaps. I am only interested in paying for things that actually work. I known I'm not alone in that ideology. And I can see from various forums that this problem isn't an extreme outlier either. It's a problem that has cost me lot of time and money trying to understand and fix.

 

[AverageGuy]

Well it's the software that's shutting it off. Do understand that AC power moves extremely slow compared to even the most basic of CPUs. 60Hz is peanuts compared to even a 'slow' CPU that's running at 100MHz (100,000,000Hz). The truck's primary CPU is running 1.9GHz (1,900,000,000Hz). So in the time it takes AC to cycle just once, the software could have adjusted parameters hundreds if not thousands of times. 1/60th of a second is a really long time in simple variables controlled by a computer... really long. Its sample time could even be 5 or 10 sinewaves and you still wouldn't notice it.

They might just be overly cautious with the original logic, so yes, software could very well do it wonders. Given that it's made by one of the big industry suppliers, it's extremely heavy, and water cooled, I'd think they would have given it much heavier margins. This isn't a china special running off of 12v -- it's got 300v behind it and doesn't require a large transformer. It should have a solid +100% surge capability for 5 seconds at least. Given that it's restricted to ~7.6kW, I'm guessing these things will almost never break. I wouldn't be surprised to see the exact same unit up-rated in the future. 7.2kW is a pretty random figure. I'd love to see it be able to run a sustained 12kw myself. I wouldn't have interest in tapping its HV bus for up to 20kw if it did. But it doesn't, so I am.

I'm a software developer myself, I always find that performance suffers once you begin to add frameworks and additional protocols. But, what you say is interesting. If Ford wrote their interface in C and kept it lean, I could see your point about keeping up with the pace of the inrush current with software. That's impressive.

 

[Snakebitten]

Perhaps. I am only interested in paying for things that actually work. I known I'm not alone in that ideology. And I can see from various forums that this problem isn't an extreme outlier either. It's a problem that has cost me lot of time and money trying to understand and fix.

Again, my empathy for your situation. I'm not trying to be a jerk.
But the ProPower truck co$t multiple times more than the saw.
The value equation would support finding a saw that works with ProPower?

 

[AverageGuy]

Again, my empathy for your situation. I'm not trying to be a jerk.
But the ProPower truck co$t multiple times more than the saw.
The value equation would support finding a saw that works with ProPower?

Yeah, no offense taken.. But I did ask Ford for a list of saws that are supported and they refused to provide that. That leaves me with buying $700 saws, assemblying them one at a time, testing to efficacy, then disassembling, reboxing and returning, then rinse and repeat that process until I find something compatible. The saw I have is one of the most popular sold in my area, widely known as a great saw. Not only do I not have unlimited funds for such an endeavor, but I also don't have unlimited time or patience. And, I'd have to locate a buyer for my saw to pay for the new saw. I'm fine with all that if Ford would have told me up front, "Here's a pro power system that is built Ford tough, rugged, and powerful, but won't work with all 15amp saws. Find the one that works on your dime and time." It's a different value proposition than what their advertising says. And if you look at the video I made, it shows their marketing literature within it that shows that not only can you run a 15amp saw on the 20 amp circuit, but they advertise you can run a plethora of other items simultaneously. That advertising is incorrect. But you buy based on the promise as you cannot test in advance.

 

[imnuts]

@AverageGuy what make/model/age is your miter saw? In general, it seems that older tools are the most likely to trip the system.

 

[Snakebitten]

@AverageGuy what make/model/age is your miter saw? In general, it seems that older tools are the most likely to trip the system.

I've seen videos where one brand of waffle maker tripped ProPower and another didn't. I'm guessing Ford is being purposely cautious in some area of electrical sensitivity. And perhaps more cautious than necessary?

 

[AverageGuy]

I've seen videos where one brand of waffle maker tripped ProPower and another didn't. I'm guessing Ford is being purposely cautious in some area of electrical sensitivity. And perhaps more cautious than necessary?

True. I'll get you the model and year soon. It's on my video post a couple pages back.

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