What is PowerBoost Alternator Output

[MJ Heat]

Before I get shouted down, please know that I have read that there is actually a belt drive generator/starter On the Powerboost. If I had asked about generator output, the answer would have likely been 2.4kw base, with 7.2kw for a $750.00 upgrade. Does anybody know the generator/starter amp +/or volt output?

Sponsored

 

[Handle]

I can only tell you what my Bluetooth battery monitor tells me about the AGM starting/charging circuit.

Upon pressing the starter button the volts go immediately from 12.3 to 14.3 +. No ICE. Once the ICE kicks in the volts go to 15.3 or so during most driving.

Im trying to figure out now where the voltage pre ICE is coming from since at that time the BISG is not running. Next step I wanted to investigate is if by chance the BISG is supplied power from the Hybrid battery set up to the BISG and see if it does indeed spin up. Of course
that would involve there being some type of clutch pulley disengagement at the flywheel that drives the BISG when the ICE is running. Just haven’t gotten around to having someone else start the truck while I have the hood open to observe. The BISG is buried in the motor and tough to see from above
Would be nice to have a electrical schematics for the truck but haven’t seen any yet. Also have not verified when the conventional starter kicks in though some say it is used for remote start

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

My understanding is that the belt driven starter/generator is only used to charge the hybrid high voltage battery when the engine is in idle (as well as start the engine when the truck is not moving or moving at slow speeds). The power to the 12V system comes from a step down DC/DC converter straight out of the high voltage battery. You would need to know the output of that converter, and I think that’s been hard to figure out so far

The above also explains why the post before me experiences 12V battery charging as soon as the system is readied up, without the ICE spinning

 

[Handle]

My understanding is that the belt driven starter/generator is only used to charge the hybrid high voltage battery when the engine is in idle (as well as start the engine when the truck is not moving or moving at slow speeds). The power to the 12V system comes from a step down DC/DC converter straight out of the high voltage battery. You would need to know the output of that converter, and I think that’s been hard to figure out so far

The above also explains why the post before me experiences 12V battery charging as soon as the system is readied up, without the ICE spinning

Is there documentation about the converter connection to the AGM? A typical ICE starter battery doesn’t receive a charge before the starter asks for power so why would Ford engineers ask a high voltage battery to provide voltage to a AGM prior to starting. A normal ICE doesn’t need that and simply uses the starter battery.

 

[MJ Heat]

I really do not know anything from personal experience, as I do not yet have my truck. I have scoured the internet & found little to no definitive information on function/sequence of operation posted by Ford, hence my queries here.

What I have read, posted by others that portend to know, is that the belt drive starter/generator only charges the high voltage battery. That battery then charges the 12v engine battery via the DC/DC convertor mentioned above. The 12v battery functions as a storage vessel for the energy needed to start the ICE & supply control circuitry, if the high voltage battery is depleted, such as by/during generator function, & as a cell that catches & releases energy as needed to regulate/smooth out voltage fluctuations on the 12v circuitry.

Even though all of this logic is built in to the trucks' control systems, I would still like to know how it all really is supposed to work. Ex - I would be interested in knowing If the ICE will run using stored battery power to get you in, if the starter/generator fails. It would be nice to have that in your back pocket to allow you to kick off the engine with remote start (flywheel starter), convert to run, & limp back to civilization on the ICE, while the battery(s) hold out.

I have read here that the truck will actually run without the primary 12v battery being connected. I have conversely also read that the truck will not run, if a different battery is put in, until programming is corrected.

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

Is there documentation about the converter connection to the AGM? A typical ICE starter battery doesn’t receive a charge before the starter asks for power so why would Ford engineers ask a high voltage battery to provide voltage to a AGM prior to starting. A normal ICE doesn’t need that and simply uses the starter battery.

The 12V battery is not ~usually~ used for starting, but it runs all 12V accessories (radio, exterior lights, modules, instrument panel, etc). Just like a non hybrid, once you “start” the car, the alternator is immediately charging. In this case, the alternator is replaced by the DC/DC converter. So once the hybrid system is “started”/energized, it immediately begins charging/maintaining the 12V batteries

I really do not know anything from personal experience, as I do not yet have my truck. I have scoured the internet & found little to no definitive information on function/sequence of operation posted by Ford, hence my queries here.

What I have read, posted by others that portend to know, is that the belt drive starter/generator only charges the high voltage battery. That battery then charges the 12v engine battery via the DC/DC convertor mentioned above. The 12v battery functions as a storage vessel for the energy needed to start the ICE & supply control circuitry, if the high voltage battery is depleted, such as by/during generator function, & as a cell that catches & releases energy as needed to regulate/smooth out voltage fluctuations on the 12v circuitry.

Even though all of this logic is built in to the trucks' control systems, I would still like to know how it all really is supposed to work. Ex - I would be interested in knowing If the ICE will run using stored battery power to get you in, if the starter/generator fails. It would be nice to have that in your back pocket to allow you to kick off the engine with remote start (flywheel starter), convert to run, & limp back to civilization on the ICE, while the battery(s) hold out.

I have read here that the truck will actually run without the primary 12v battery being connected. I have conversely also read that the truck will not run, if a different battery is put in, until programming is corrected.

Your understanding seems consistent with mine. The 12V is only for accessories and to act as a big capacitor for extra load, as well as rarely for engaging the traditional 12V flywheel starter in special situations. (The following are assumptions based on my understanding) I would imagine that should the starter/generator fail, your high voltage battery would only be able to charge through regen braking. I think this would probably be sufficient to maintain enough high voltage battery charge to continue supplying power to the 12V system through the converter, and you’d make it home. If somehow that converter failed, then it would act as a standard car with a failed alternator in that it will pop up a charge system fault light and will run as long as the 2 12V batteries can supply power to necessary systems

 

[MJ Heat]

"I would imagine that should the starter/generator fail, your high voltage battery would only be able to charge through regen braking. I think this would probably be sufficient to maintain enough high voltage battery charge to continue supplying power to the 12V system through the converter, and you’d make it home. If somehow that converter failed, the it would act as a standard car with a failed alternator in that it will pop up a charge system fault light and will run as long as the 2 12V batteries can supply power to necessary systems."

This is how it really should be, if it is not how it actually is. However, from what I have read with the Powerboost, there may be so many fault codes popping, in either of these failures, that the truck just shuts down.

We will not all find ourselves dealing with these kinds of issues, but it sure would be nice to have a logic sequence in mind, if it happens. Imagine walking for several miles to learn that you could have just started the ICE with remote start & rode home.

 

[Handle]

Interesting topic and hopefully we can get some electrical diagrams to look at.

So your saying that the BISG while the truck is running does not provide any direct charging to to the AGM but instead only charges the high voltage hybrid battery which in turn thru the DCDC charges the AGM.

Wonder why after ICE starts that volts to AGM jumps up to 15.3 volts and stays there. And since AGM chargers typically max out at 14.7. You would think the control circuit From the DCDC converter would just maintain the 14.6 while driving and that any extra voltage provided by the BISG would get sent to the hybrid battery not the AGM.

 

[Handle]

This is an interesting document. Section 2-20 Electrical has some decent schematics.
And section 3 mounting location of major components describes the 12v AGM as voltage stabilizer fir the 12v system.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/...owroom/resources/2021_F-150_ModifierGuide.pdf

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

"I would imagine that should the starter/generator fail, your high voltage battery would only be able to charge through regen braking. I think this would probably be sufficient to maintain enough high voltage battery charge to continue supplying power to the 12V system through the converter, and you’d make it home. If somehow that converter failed, the it would act as a standard car with a failed alternator in that it will pop up a charge system fault light and will run as long as the 2 12V batteries can supply power to necessary systems."

This is how it really should be, if it is not how it actually is. However, from what I have read with the Powerboost, there may be so many fault codes popping, in either of these failures, that the truck just shuts down.

We will not all find ourselves dealing with these kinds of issues, but it sure would be nice to have a logic sequence in mind, if it happens. Imagine walking for several miles to learn that you could have just started the ICE with remote start & rode home.

I’m not sure what remote start has to do with it. There seems to be an idea from somewhere that remote start somehow triggers the 12V flywheel starter, but that is definitely not the case on mine. I’ve only heard the flywheel starter twice in 8900 miles. When I remote start, it does the same as a normal start…it initially starts electric, then if I’m requesting heat, it’ll crank the engine using the belt driven starter/generator

 

[MJ Heat]

I’m not sure what remote start has to do with it. There seems to be an idea from somewhere that remote start somehow triggers the 12V flywheel starter, but that is definitely not the case on mine. I’ve only heard the flywheel starter twice in 8900 miles. When I remote start, it does the same as a normal start…it initially starts electric, then if I’m requesting heat, it’ll crank the engine using the belt driven starter/generator

Fair enough. All of my regurgitated information is based solely on what I have read from the postings/experience of others. The grain of salt that should be taken, with anything that I say about a Powerboost at this point, is the size of the truck.

With that in mind, what do you know, if anything, about whether it is the belt drive starter/generator, or the electric drive motor that collects the energy from regenerative braking? Or is it like the starter issue, whereby 1 does it sometimes, & then the other also does it sometimes?

 

[Oxford_Powerboost]

Fair enough. All of my regurgitated information is based solely on what I have read from the postings/experience of others. The grain of salt that should be taken, with anything that I say about a Powerboost at this point, is the size of the truck.

With that in mind, what do you know, if anything, about whether it is the belt drive starter/generator, or the electric drive motor that collects the energy from regenerative braking? Or is it like the starter issue, whereby 1 does it sometimes, & then the other also does it sometimes?

I presume it would have to be the drive motor consider that the engine is almost never on when braking, and thus the BISG would not be spinning. Further supporting that, regen is not available when the transmission temp is under 60 degrees F, which is also the temperature for torque converter lockup. Regen resistance from the electric motor would cause a lot of slip in the torque converter and probably not be efficient anyways. As soon as the transmission can lockup, regen becomes available again

 

[MJ Heat]

I presume it would have to be the drive motor consider that the engine is almost never on when braking, and thus the BISG would not be spinning. Further supporting that, regen is not available when the transmission temp is under 60 degrees F, which is also the temperature for torque converter lockup. Regen resistance from the electric motor would cause a lot of slip in the torque converter and probably not be efficient anyways. As soon as the transmission can lockup, regen becomes available again

I greatly appreciate the back & forth here! Your logic train makes sense to me. But at the same time, I am somewhat aghast at just how much supposition that there still is, after more than a year of production, for method of operation, of this incredibly expensive & complex device. I can only guess that there would be a sequence of operation owners manual available, if Ford wasn't trying to protect some competitive advantage. If such a manual exists, I am not smart enough to find it.

 

[MJ Heat]

And before I totally forget to ask again, does anyone have any idea what the rated output amperage is for the generator/starter on a Powerboost?

 

[Handle]

This is from the description of each of the High Voltage equipment pieces listed in the document linked above is all I’ve seen


Generator Output
The generator for the hybrid vehicles are different from those used on the non-hybrid models. The non-hybrid vehicles have a 110-amp generator.

Sponsored