Audible alert speaker routing with 7-speaker audio system?

[Buyer2021]

My 2022 Lariat 500A has the non-amplified 7-speaker audio system (center dashboard speaker, A-pillar tweeters, front door speakers, rear door speakers, NO subwoofer). The ACM has 5 speaker-level output channels

1. Instrument panel center channel (to single speaker located on top of dash)
2. LF channel (to both A-Pillar tweeter and Front Door speaker)
3. RF channel (to both A-Pillar tweeter and Front Door speaker)
4. LR channel (to Rear Door speaker)
5. RR channel (to Rear Door speaker)

Questions (does anyone know) ....

Q1. Are any of the non-music tones, alerts, nav voices, phone voices, etc routed only to the Instrument panel center channel (#1 above)?​

Q2. Are any of the non-music tones, alerts, nav voices, phone voices, etc routed only to the LR / RR door channels (#4 and #5 Above)?​

​

By "non-music" I mean any sound except / other than sound from music sources.

Thanks in advance for sharing knowledge, not speculation.

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@SoundsGoodStereo

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[Buyer2021]

Restating a different way ....

Will I lose any sounds if using only the ACM LF and RF channel outputs (#2 and #3 above) as the inputs for a DSP driving all of my audio speakers?

 

[nickn066]

A lot of use use forscan to change the alerts to the IPC, that way all alerts come from the IPC instead of the speakers.

 

[Buyer2021]

A lot of use use forscan to change the alerts to the IPC, that way all alerts come from the IPC instead of the speakers.

Interesting. I am a FORScan user. Can you point me to posts discussing this specifically or provide specific information on these FORScan edits (e.g. module address and value changes required)?

Are these edits to the ACM 727 or IPC 720 or ?

I'm looking at the FORScan spreadsheet and don't see anything obvious relating to this, your further help would be appreciated.

 

[nickn066]

Interesting. I am a FORScan user. Can you point me to posts discussing this specifically or provide specific information on these FORScan edits (e.g. module address and value changes required)?

Are these edits to the ACM 727 or IPC 720 or ?

I'm looking at the FORScan spreadsheet and don't see anything obvious relating to this, your further help would be appreciated.

I can't find the forum post with a quick search, but it's 720-01-01 **** ***X **

Listed under Chime Generator, set it to CG cluster only

 

[Buyer2021]

I can't find the forum post with a quick search, but it's 720-01-01 **** ***X **

Listed under Chime Generator, set it to CG cluster only

Thanks very much, that's quite helpful

My current is

720-01-01

2F0A

1024

F086

which is

4=	CCDCF disabled • CG audio, single • CS disabled

So, changing that value to ...

0=	CCDCF disabled • CG cluster only • CS disabled

..... should move those chimes to the IPC chime generator, does that look correct to you?

When that's done, do the chimes sound the same?

Do you happen to know if there are any other sounds routed to the center speaker only, such as phone voices or Nav voices?

After making ^that^ change, have you successfully used only the ACM LF + RF outputs for DSP / amp mods without losing any other sounds?

With apology for bombarding, you with questions but it seems maybe you've done something similar to what I'm exploring, your shared experience is greatly appreciated!

 

[nickn066]

Thanks very much, that's quite helpful

My current is

720-01-01

2F0A

1024

F086

which is

4=	CCDCF disabled • CG audio, single • CS disabled

So, changing that value to ...

0=	CCDCF disabled • CG cluster only • CS disabled

..... should move those chimes to the IPC chime generator, does that look correct to you?

When that's done, do the chimes sound the same?

Do you happen to know if there are any other sounds routed to the center speaker only, such as phone voices or Nav voices?

After making ^that^ change, have you successfully used only the ACM LF + RF outputs for DSP / amp mods without losing any other sounds?

With apology for bombarding, you with questions but it seems maybe you've done something similar to what I'm exploring, your shared experience is greatly appreciated!

The chimes have a different sound because they are coming from the IPC, you'll notice a difference right away but they all have the same type of tone (hopefully that makes sense).

I don't use the built in nav, only apple maps, that audio still works and haven't had any issues with phone calls.

 

[Mosey]

In my XLT, all sounds except cross-traffic alert come thru the IPC. The cross-traffic alert still goes to the rear speakers. I would much prefer to have the center dash speaker rather than the IPC.

 

[Buyer2021]

Background, just FYI and inviting comment / suggestions .....

I have a closet full of 'vintage' JBL MS-series DSP and amps, along with pairs of AudioFrog tweeters, AudioFrog midrange, Stereo Integrity midrange, and Stereo Integrity BM-mkV shallow-mount 12" subs.

All of this equipment was previously installed in another vehicle I owned and was a truly great sounding system.

The JBL MS-8 DSP is happiest with only a left and right stereo pair full-spectrum input. Its algorithms create up to 8-channels of output including a 'real' center front channel (not a simple L+R signal but a sophisticated L&R signal which tracks across the front stage) which provides amazing staging when tuned for a single-position listener (e.g. 'driver only).

The 'matching' JBL MS-A1004 amps (4 x 100WRMS) incorporate their own tunable filters / crossovers between each channel. The MS-A1005 is a monoblock subwoofer amp (1 x 500WRMS output, 20Hz-270Hz).

I'm just toying with the idea of installing this in my SuperCab with the DSP, Amps, and shallow Sub all on the cab wall behind the rear seat. Could be a fun winter project.

 

[Buyer2021]

The chimes have a different sound because they are coming from the IPC, you'll notice a difference right away but they all have the same type of tone (hopefully that makes sense).

I don't mind if chimes have a different sound as long as they are still functional and understandable.

In my XLT, all sounds except cross-traffic alert come thru the IPC. The cross-traffic alert still goes to the rear speakers.

OK, so that cross-traffic alert would be a problem with my scheme (I'd lose it) unless there's a way in FORScan to re-route that to the IPC or the front left & right speaker outputs from the ACM.

I would much prefer to have the center dash speaker rather than the IPC.

IMO the OE center dash speaker sucks for music playback; it's a simple constant-level L+R signal which muddies / destroys staging, as opposed to the MS-8's algorithm-driven 'real' center which blends L&R signals at varying levels depending on where the music is on the stage.

The difference is very evident when, for example, Jethro Tull's Ian Andersen walks across the stage from left to right playing the flute. The center sound fades to near zero when he's on the ends of the stage, with highest volume when he's at the center of the stage, which really improves the listening experience. Relatively few DSP's offer a similar proprietary 'real' center algorithm.

For that reason I don't want to use the OE center speaker output from the ACM to drive the center speaker.

Similarly, the MS-8 rear channels are attenuated and time-aligned to create a realistic 'back stage', mimicking the sounds that would be reflected from the rear-wall of a concert space. Therefore, it's undesirable to pass-through any 'rear' channels from the music source.

 

[Mosey]

I meant just for the chimes. I have both front and rear signals going into the amp so I don’t lose the cross-traffic alert. Some people recommend leaving the rears attached to the ACM and power the tweeters and fronts using the Key in bi-amp mode.

 

[Buyer2021]

I meant just for the chimes.

Is there a way to delete the music on the ACM front-center output, leaving only the chimes? Or the same for the cross-traffic alert on the rear?

Some people recommend leaving the rears attached to the ACM and power the tweeters and fronts using the Key in bi-amp mode.

What is "the Key", please?

I'm looking for a way to manage non-music signals discrete from music signals, which is seeming like a non-starter with these systems.

 

[Mosey]

Is there a way to delete the music on the ACM front-center output, leaving only the chimes? Or the same for the cross-traffic alert on the rear?


What is "the Key", please?

I'm looking for a way to manage non-music signals discrete from music signals, which is seeming like a non-starter with these systems.

Sorry. I am referring to the Kicker Key 200.4 DSP amplifier. This amp will not do what you want. I have read in these forums about other amps that can work with factory chimes, but that is about all I know.

I (and others) really tried to live with having the chimes play thru the amp, but it just won’t work well unless you have virtually no gain on the amp. I just resigned to having the chimes play thru the IPC.

 

[Buyer2021]

Two features (or quirks, depending on your perspective) of the JBL MS-8 ....

1. The initial setup requires playback of a JBL-provided calibration file (via CD or USB) while sitting in the driver's seat wearing provided microphones (they're like headphones but have an outward-facing microphone over each L&R ear). You are audibly instructed to face forward and then turn your head to the left and right during this real-time calibration process.​

​

The MS-8 compares the signal received by those L&R mics located at the driver's ears to the same track held in its internal memory and based on that comparison sets the base time-alignment and relative sound level for each of its speaker outputs. It's a very easy and effective system for achieving a good base tune of the DSP. Note it is not possible to 'invoke' vehicle-generated tones or voices during this initial calibration process.

2. The MS-8 accepts up to eight channels of inputs from the vehicle head-unit (ACM). It uses those inputs to 'assemble' a single L&R stereo pair of full-spectrum signals which are used for subsequent processing. But it gives priority to the L&R channels connected to its #1 and #2 inputs (intended to be the front L&R signals from the HU / ACM). This 'prioritization' cannot be over-ridden.​

​

The effect is that when it detects that the audio content on any input is already contained in the signal on inputs #1 and #2, it ignores (does not use) the signals other than #1 and #2 for processing. If a sub-output having content of lower-frequency than the front channels is connected to, for example, input #8, then the MS-8 will use #1, #2, and #8 inputs for processing.

This means that even if the rear outputs from the ACM are connected to the MS-8 (the channels carrying the cross-traffic alert tones), they will not be used by the MS-8 and therefore those tones won't be heard; this because those channels have content already provided by the front L&R inputs.

One possible work-around for that particular issue would be to use the ACM rear L&R outputs as the MS-8 #1 and #2 inputs (making those the 'priority' source channels) which would then transmit any tones on those channels to the MS-8 so they would be audible. And use FORScan to route the other tones to the IPC. But then, any tones voices only on the ACM's front channels (phone conversations?) would not be processed / audible.

So, it may be that the MS-8 just doesn't lend to 'playing nice' with our systems if one also wants to retain all of the OE non-music sounds.

Unfortunate, that, because I know it would provide an amazingly improved music listening experience.

 

[JCsTruck]

ahh the now old but still effective JBL Ms8. Andy Wehmeyer helped develop that auto DSP. if you can find one that still works, then they are still quite useful.

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